The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: Dans on December 31, 2016, 09:59:41 pm
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The tup is in with our ewes and we're expecting lambs May/June.
Unfortunately my mother in law has booked a cabin in Finland for a month starting late June with an open invite to family and wants us all to come for at least a bit. It will cause a very big family upset if we don't go.
We are looking at going for just a long weekend, I've vetoed going for any longer. This is our first lambing and I've no idea if there is a better time, in terms of age of lambs, for us to be away?
Any ideas? I've thought about me staying home but my daughter hasn't been without me for more than a few hours and sending her to another country seems too much.
Thanks
Dans
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A lot depends on who you will have looking after things while you are away. If it's someone very experienced who can live in, then not such a problem. If you don't have anyone like that you can call on... :/
I'd get the tup out now, so at least you know that lambing ends at the beginning of June. So then the youngest lambs will be nearly 4 weeks old and past the early danger time, unlikely to get rejected.
Then consider whether you might be bottle-rearing... personally I don't like to wean them before 6-7 weeks, although I know many wean at 5 weeks. Personally, if I didn't have an experienced sitter, I wouldn't really want to be away for the couple of weeks after weaning, as I watch them closely to be sure they're doing ok on their non-milky diet. Although I guess just being away for say 3 or 4 nights they couldn't come to too much harm... :/. Unless they overdo the grass or cake and get bloat, of course.... Many find that bloat is more of a risk before weaning, but given your timing you could get past that stage.
Other things... when will you shear? Will the sheep need an experienced person watching for and dealing with any flystrike? It's Manxes you have, isn't it? I've had at least one lamb every year get bothered by flies on the horn, especially if the lamb has managed to damage the horn. You could decide to dag, worm and Crovect (horns as well as fleece) before you go, which should keep problems at bay for a week or so!
What about orf? If you have it on your farm you could Scabivax them all. If you don't know yet whether you have it, though, you probably won't want to use the vaccine as it will introduce the disease.
The other worries would be mastitis, and/or lambs starting to fail to thrive, getting diseases as their passive immunity wanes... You could Ovivac the lambs at three weeks and again a month later, and do your trip towards the end of the month period. (But then getting into more risk of strike, and/or the shearers coming...)
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I know this is really harsh but you could consider terminating the pregnancies - take the ram out now the vet in 10 days. It might be kinder than relying on an inexperienced sitter.
Then you could have a proper holiday before spelling out your needs to your family.
We didn't make my brother's wedding and still reap the fallout 20 some odd years later but there was no way we could not make hay and that needed all hands to the deck. Wouldn't be so bad but they are all in farming - October would have been so much easier!
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Is there a local farmer's son or member of the Young Farmers who could take charge for a fee while you're away? We would normally get the shearer in in mid May but 2016 was so cold and the grass so slow to get going we were still feeding hay then and the sheep were shorn in July, so we had several cases of flystrike on humid days.
Not your fault the holiday was booked after the ram went in. Finland in July - take lots of insect repellent - the mosquitoes are fierce.
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Hi Dans :wave: Would it be possible for you and Sam to go separately? Then there would always be one of you at home and the other could spend more than just a couple of days away, and enjoy yourselves. Seems the simplest solution. Apart from 5 days away together 16 years ago, we have never had a holiday together since we acquired livestock........
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The alternative view---
Few days away? Should be fine with just someone coming in to glance over the fence once a day
Sell orphans asap and you are free to go
I go away on these terms with 1000 ewes & their lambs spread over a large area --- not a problem
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You are rubbing in that you have self-shearing sheep, and very little risk of flystrike, I think, Tim W!
But thinking about that... I presume that lambs don't shed in their first summer, so are they not as at risk as any other breed?
And on the 'check once a day' regime, you do have to be sure that the person has time and experience to deal with any issues that do arise. I was once left to do a twice daily check and feed of a friends' mixed smallholding, and their sheep started to lamb unexpectedly. I was working so couldn't be on hand all day, didn't have the experience to make things safe for the lambs.. it was awful. Many lambs were lost, my confidence was shattered, the friendship was severely bruised (my anger at their leaving me and their sheep at that time, not they blaming me for the loss of the lambs) - it's left a deep impression on me.
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Not really the shedding thing that defines whether you can go away or not but rather the overall selection process over the years (if it needs attention = cull it)
The other main factor is the worry issue --- if you want to try and imagine every possible bad thing that could happen you would never leave your livestock unattended for an hour
I just like to have a social life as well as a work life ---and I strongly believe that in many cases the more you interfere with sheep the more problems you cause
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Not really the shedding thing that defines whether you can go away or not but rather the overall selection process over the years (if it needs attention = cull it)
The other main factor is the worry issue --- if you want to try and imagine every possible bad thing that could happen you would never leave your livestock unattended for an hour
I just like to have a social life as well as a work life ---and I strongly believe that in many cases the more you interfere with sheep the more problems you cause
This is Dans' first lambing, so she has no idea how her little flock will perform.
When you have 1000 sheep and come home to find you only have 999, then you aren't perhaps going to lose any sleep over it. When you have maybe half a dozen, one dead is a big deal.
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Personally I wouldn't go at all! But all my family know me well enough not to book anywhere expecting me to go without consulting me first! Last year me and my husband went away for one week in May after lambing, leaving everything to my son (who's sheep they are and who is more experienced than me anyway). I couldn't relax for worrying so there was no point in going!!
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Hmm well given I am currently some 300 miles away from my smallholding I am more in Tim Ws line of thought. My sheep, goats etc are being cared for by several people but overseen by an agricultural graduate who has just come back from a year in Australia. She has more experience than me so maybe I should stay away! But after a career in management I guess I'm well versed in delegation and the critical thing is to delegate to people who are competent rather than just convenient and make it as simple and low risk as you can. If you opt for the end of the period they should be lambed and sheared which reduces complexity. Also if you can time it to when the agri colleges finish for the summer you may be able to get someone who wants a bit of additional experience on their CV to help. To be frank I don't worry when I go away except if the don't think I have got it well sorted.
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Ouch - must be really hard having family that doesn't understand your predicament.
Perhaps you need to explain why you really need to be at home to finish the years work and begin the next.
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Thank you all, you have certainly given me a lot to think about, which is why I posted the question here. I figured you all would have more experience and be able to point out the pit falls to me.
It's been a bit of a disaster year, we had been planning to tup late September but my step father died whilst on holiday and everything went to hell. Maybe at that point we should have just said to leave it for this year, but a few people said it wouldn't be too late and the grass would at least be good so we went for it. *Sigh*
The ewes were shorn late May last year and I've been reading about shearing them a month before lambing. Anyone have experience with this? If I get booked in with the shearer when his diary opens I should be able to get him for then.
I'm not expecting orf to be a problem. The land hasn't been grazed by anything for 11 years before our sheep came. I'm hoping that any orf that was here would be long gone in that time but I'll check with my vet friend.
We can't go to Finland separately as I no longer get on very well with my MIL and need Sam there as a buffer. It's him and Chi (my daughter) that she wants there, so having just Sam and then just me and Chi probably won't work for her anyway.
Being in South Lincs there don't seem to be many sheep farmers about (just smallholdings really and of course all about the arable). We don't even seem to have a local Agri college (I keep looking for courses).
The tup has now covered 5 of our 6 girls, although 3 of them he has covered twice (two different cycles). If we do go on the holiday we will take him out tomorrow, although that is another headache as the people we hired him from said he would be fine in with the ewes until just before lambing when they will come and collect him. We had anticipated taking him out so now if he is out he will be on his own. The holding is only 2.5 acres, about 1.5 acres of that is for the sheep, so wherever he is he will still be able to see and smell the girls. I just hope we don't get broken fences if he decides he has to be in with them.
I think our options are:
1) Don't go, try and make it up to MIL by going to stay at hers for a long weekend or even a week at another point in the year when we can get a novice sitter in (any suggestions on the best time of year to be away from a smallholding???)
2) Pay a professional smallholding sitter who has experience and then limit it to a couple of days at the very end of the cabin booking
3) Get our usual sitter (good friend who helps out on the holding occasionally but only livestock experience is through us) to come, and have our friends dad on call (lives 20 mins away and used to be a shepherd but was in traction a few years ago so no longer very mobile) and the vets number written everywhere.
I'm leaning on #1 as I really don't want to run the risk of anything going wrong and having any bad blood between friends if we go for #3, but things have been very strained with the MIL and we didn't visit her at all in 2016 (Although she did book a house for her birthday so we went there for a weekend), and we spent nearly a month at my mum's when my step father died (and a big bill for twice a day drop ins by some sitters).
It's all a bit of a huge headache, and I'm very much looking forward to when my daughter can travel with out me as then I can stay here and we can still meet family obligations.
Dans
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How old is daughter? Couldn't Sam take her for an adventure? Sounds a long way and expensive to go for a weekend. What does Sam think?
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We have the same situation. Mil is 80 in April but fortunately had come to realise that livestock are full time so Collette will go. We are in north lincs so will have a head scratch about who migjt be around in the south
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She's 18 months and still breastfed to sleep. We are hoping to start trying to have Sam be able to get her to sleep without me and I'm hoping she won't be breastfeeding by then but I'm reluctant to book for her to go away until we know that she can settle without me. If it were a year later then it would be fine.
Any recommendations you have could be welcome. I've found a few sitter companies who travel to smallholdings. Looking very very expensive for what would end up being fly out one evening, stay 2 days and fly back one morning.
Dans
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We will only be on our second lambing in 2017 so I'll leave the husbandry issues to the others peeps with vastly more experience than me. All I will say is this: do YOU want to go to Finland? If the answer is no, then don't go. You didn't book the cabin in Finland and you have enough legitimate reasons not to go. I hope that is helpful.
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How does Sam feel about it? I think you have to make the decision together. How long are you planning to breastfeed? Until next summer? I am with Jon Feather and if you don't want to go don't. If Sam and Chi can go together let them go and stop the night feeding.
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I think option 1 would be the best. Our family have learn't that we have to put our own livelihoods and livestock above any holiday's. There have been years when things like this have happened and we have postponed it until the next year, when things are a lot clearer. Would it be too much to ask of her to come and stay with the both of you? That way she would be able to spend some quality time with her granddaughter and her son. How would you feel about it though? If not for a weekend, 3-4 days maximum, would that be ok? At the moment with everything going on at the farm I can only talk over the phone to one set of my Grandparents, I only manage to be able to see them once yearly, that is when they come and spend a week with us in August-september. It is rather a struggle, but more so when one of them lives in another country. I hope this helps? And I hope that you can get things sorted soon, it can be very difficult travelling and feeding a little baby at the same time, not only for you but the baby.
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I wouldn't consider the travel with a 2 year old for such a short period of time to someone who you could visit in this country... find it hard to believe MIL thinks its a good idea unless she is paying for travel too! Have her to stay with you and see how much work there is with animals!
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I love going to Finland (even in July with the mozzies) and drove normally I would jump at the chance. I am however incredibly reluctant to go away from the holding in the summer months as there is so much going on, and that is without taking into account a late (first) lambing. It also seems a long way to go for a short time.
My MIL comes up for 4 days every month or so to stay with us. She loves our home grown produce and tells all her friends, buying produce where she can to share with them, but like my mum she doesn't seem to understand that it is constant work (my mum keeps telling me to pay people to do the jobs around the holding).
Unfortunately Sam very much wants us to go. He feels that we haven't made as much of an effort to go to his mum's as we should have and that she is missing out somewhat on her granddaughter. To add some explanation my MIL is from Finland (although she lives here) so this would be her introducing her first grandchild to her homeland. She isn't paying for travel but I imagine she is expecting us to stay for at least a week. She'll be quite disappointed in the shorter stay.
The current decision is we see how it goes. We have left the tup in for now as he was showing strong interest in the last uncovered ewe when we went to move him. We will move him in the week and hope he doesn't break my fences down. We will get the ewes scanned and see what that tells us and get quotes from sitters. Probably book the sitters and if things are looking nervous around the time to go we will cancel.
Thank you all for your advice and support.
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Is there any chance of moving the dates of the stay at all?
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any suggestions on the best time of year to be away from a smallholding???)
If you have only sheep, then just before tupping. If you buy a tup in, get back before he comes. The lambs are away or speaned and settled; the ewes are in good condition prior to tupping, not working, don't need anything except reasonable grass; the hay is made and in; the fly season may be past, else use Clik or Crovect. Worm everything before you go ;)
Next best is after tupping. Depending on where you live, risk of getting stranded by weather, however.
If you have other species too, it's harder! When we wanted to attend a wedding at the end of June, and have a week's holiday afterwards, our planning started in the preceding September. We didn't AI anything for a month so there would be no chance of any cows calving while we were away. (It happened to be the year we had no bull. If we'd had a bull, we'd have run him with the Blue Greys for that month. They should have been in calf anyway, but if any had returned, they almost never have any calving or rearing issues.). Tups had to be out by the end of December so that all lambs would be at least 4 weeks old when we went away, and I had to be mindful with the pet lambs that they had to be speaned and settled by mid-June; any late ones would have to be sold once they were well established. And everything was dependant on being able to organise haymaking, shearing and so on, for other times - so right up until two weeks before the wedding, it wasn't certain that ex-BH would be going too. We were phenomenally lucky to have a divorcing farmer staying with us when the time came, or to be honest I think we'd have been too worried (about flystrike, mastitis, and all the other things that can hit sheep and cattle in summer) to have enjoyed the holiday.
(I hope all the folks who buy their new smallholding and 'want some of everything right away' read this thread!)
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Hi. I second SiN comments. We spent nearly 3 weeks in Tanzania on a build project last August. .... but it took a year's worth of planning ...... Sorting time of matings and other husbandry activities so as to free the time away to daily checks plus any emergencies. Then you just have to go and have faith in your planning and enjoy.
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Our holiday this year consisted of 4 nights away mid week, it was nice though. We went 2nd week of December and took our hired ram back at the same time :roflanim: the sheep were fine but our in lamb ewe lamb apparently tried to hang herself in the fence... first time she's ever done that-luckily all ok though :-[ we have a very narrow window of being able to go away, my job is very seasonal from march through to november, partner is a farmer contracting from january onwards along with ewes lambing, cows calving. So the couple of weeks before xmas is our best (and only time) to get away.
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We had a nice day out in Aberystwyth last summer .....
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We had a nice day out in Aberystwyth last summer .....
What! the whole day? :o
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I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who replied. Decided in the end that I couldn't go away. I would worry too much, we could only go for a short time and it would be unfair on our daughter. We'll go and spend a weekend with my mother-in-law in England in the autumn. Thank you for giving me the confidence to say no. I had been slightly worried I was over-reacting about not going away.
Dans
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I'm secretly pleased although let's face it, I don't know you and to be honest it's none of my business.
We realised long ago that although our smallholding is not our livelihood and is really no more than a hobby, we take the welfare of our animals very seriously and pride ourselves on always putting their needs first. This means that often, what might be a straightforward request, for a wedding, or a holiday or just a day out often takes much advance planning and can often result in us having to say no.
Apart from our dedication to our dependent stock, what also doesn't help is that OH and I are complete control freaks and don't really trust that any one else would look after things properly in our absence.
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The folks that stay in our farm holiday cottage sometimes ask me where I go on holiday. When I reply that if I went on holiday I'd go for somewhere I didn't have to dress up or watch the clock, where I could spend a lot of time outdoors and be somewhere beautiful and ..... oh, I live here already, some of them get it and some of them don't - just like relatives, really.