The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Pets & Working Animals => Dogs => Topic started by: DODx on November 04, 2016, 12:26:23 pm
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Don't know if you guys remember but I posted about my French bulldog (possible cross) a while ago. Well we've had him for a good while now and in every aspect he is perfect, picks up tricks really well, walks on and off lead perfect, comes to call etc etc etc.
However, the last few weeks he has been a nightmare with toilet training. It feels like when we are getting there he just takes us right back to square one. He has started crying to get out during the day which is perfect! But during the night we wake up to 4 or 5 poos! He's not crate trained as I don't particularly agree with it and it's been that long now that he would hate it if I was to introduce this late on. He is however confined to the kitchen.
I was told it will pass but it has been a long time now! And I'm beginning to wonder if it actually ever will! He goes on his puppy pad but it just seems like an awful lot! I should add that we go to bed quite late, he gets his last feed at 8 and is out 3 or 4 times before putting him to bed around half 12 sometimes even 1 then I am up at 7:30.
My papa was a dog trainer and my mum had our family dog toilet trained in 3 days! I feel I am not living up to my family standards!
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Just my thoughts;
Poo'ing 4/5 times in 7 hours sounds like stress.
Would you reconsider crate training? It gives the pup a safe secure den which he should feel less stressed in. Dogs are very unlikely to toilet in their own bed so it should also break the habit of him poo'ing at night, even if you only use it short term.
Do you have to feed him so late at night? How old is he now? If you could move his last meal forward by a an hour or two, this may help with his need to go overnight.
Puppy pads- if he's going on these then obviously he thinks that's the right thing to do. Personally I don't like them as the pup is being trained to toilet inside.
Just my thoughts.
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I considered stress as well. But that's the thing he's a very very chilled out dog. When he gets fed up in the living room he gets up and takes himself into the kitchen. He knows it's his safe place.
The vet told me I should be feeding him 3 times a day and gets his afternoon one at 4 and he won't eat til about 8 even if it is put down infront of him.
I was considering crate training against every instinct I have in my body but i think it being introduce this late on will confuse him. He's 3 and a half months and tiny. I just think he can't hold it in that long.
The puppy pad thing I absolutely agree with and have always always advised everyone against them. we didn't buy them for the first week at all but were then left with absolutely no choice. I live in a flat so it's 10x harder.
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My 3.5 month-old collie can only do about 4.5 hours overnight at the moment. He has his last meal at 6pm, will usually have a poo in the garden some time between 8.30 to 9pm and then I come down at 1.30am (well, 1.22am this morning, I'm moving it earlier in 2-minute intervals now) to let him out. We get up at 6am.
Apart from the small hours garden visit, he's in his crate from 9pm until 6am, which is very big and at the moment has half Vetbed and half newspaper, so he doesn't have to go on his bedding if he's desperate. The only time the newspaper has needed changing in the past couple of weeks is when I've forgotten to take his little plastic water bowl out of there in the morning and he's helpfully gone and picked it up and brought it to me!
If you really don't want to crate, try an early-hours outside bathroom visit for a few weeks until he's a bit bigger (and be prepared for the inevitable comments about the bags under your eyes!)
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How old is he now? How much are you feeding him and what are you feeding?
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CarolineJ how many meals a day are you giving?
I don't know if it's due to his bulldog chilled out nature it just seems to be taking so long!
I think I might take a week off work (still have loads of holidays wooo) and just get this sorted once and for all. Might need to start with a few night trips outside then narrow it down
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He's 3.5 months, 3 meals a day wainwright grain free puppy
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Hope you find a solution, that does sound like a lot of poo.
I was always wary of crates and then at 5 yrs old my Lab needed an operation and with a 6 month pup running around I decided to crate train to give recovery space and stop them playing too much. Both took to it really easy and the 6 month old loved having his old space and still goes it in during the day when the door is left open.
Very rarely had an accident in their and can hear them scratch at the floor if they need to go, I think they are trying to dig so not to toilet on their beds.
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Three meals a day, about 110g in each. He's growing like a weed, he's now 50% heavier than he was when we got him 5 weeks ago! Breakfast is 9am after we get back in from sorting the horses out, lunch around 12.30/1.
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Maybe try shunting meals forward? Feed first thing, (6am) and make his last meal smaller and feed at 4-5pm. Then he might have a chance to get it out of his system by midnight. I like crate training personally, but if you're not happy with it, don't do it.
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I always felt the same about crate training but tried it with my lab, mainly so that she could sleep safely in the same room as our other bouncy retriever without being trampled in the morning when I went in to them. ::)
Changed my mind about them. She considers the crate her bed and is always happy to go in at night or if we are leaving her in the day. Really glad we used one as she is a bit of a chewer so she can't cause damage when left or eat anything harmful.
She was toilet trained within a week at night and hardly any accidents during the day. Think the crate must have helped with night training.
Maybe worth a try?
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A crate to a pup is a cave, a den , a safe place. Get rid of your preconceptions about it - it doesn't really matter what you think about "cages" what matters is your pups opinion :-) It's never too late to crate train and its a godsend for many reasons.
My daughters frenchie has an allergy to chicken - she had an awful time before working it out, poos all over the place. Chicken based food is usually the safest, but obviously not for him. Might be something to consider.
I would use your week off to crate train him and shut him in it at night but get up every 3 hours (then 3.5 then 4 etc...).
Good luck x
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His food maybe the problem. Could be gluten. I have seen this in labs. Might be worth taking him of a grain type diet and trying him on fish, chicken and rice for a few weeks to see how he does. There are gulten free dog foods out there. I think 8pm is too late, Mine are fed at 7.30am and 4.30pm. We go to bed around 9.30pm as we get up early so that is the latest they get out in the evening. I have started taking my Jack Russell out during the night due to the fact he is old now but the other two just sleep on.
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Although Wainrights is an ok food, it does sound as though it's not the right one for your puppy, that many poo's ( if there's no underlying problem ) would suggest to me that his food is traveling through his digestion at a rate that it's not being fully utilised, resulting in a lot of waste.
Are his poo's very smelly, soft of greasy ?.
It could also be that he's getting too much at meal times, which could account for him not eating his last meal until four hours after it's been offered, and also be a very simple reason for all the poop.
Training wise, I'd ditch the puppy pads, it just slows things down, and if you have some holiday time, set your alarm to get up half way through the night to let him out, I'm sure you will crack the house training eventually, some breeds can be a bit slow.
Good luck ????
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The wainwright food is grain free which is why we picked it as the vet assured me most frenchies NEED grain free and no other grain free foods available to us. I'd love to change it as it costs a fortune but would like to stick to grain free.
Starting Monday I plan on getting up through the night and if that doesn't work I will consider crate training.
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Have you tried other foods than grain free? Why does your vet think one breed would have more benefit than any other. That is illogical. I suspect it is causing multiple excretions
Anyway, dogs of 14 weeks upwards have some control of their motions.
For my young puppies I have a 5 hour regime - for every pup I've ever had and that's a lot !
Times can be varied to have 5 and a half or 6 hours between them, but I never leave the last meal later than 6 pm
Meals at 7 am, 12 noon, 5 pm
Toileting outside a few minutes afterwards.
Play after that, then another toilet break
I rarely have had any night-time accidents.
edit - I have used cages/crates for 40 years with no adverse effect on the pups.
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Our red-and-white Welsh sheepdog couldn't cope with standard food and our vet advised us to switch to Chappie canned food, which worked within a couple of days. We hadn't used a crate before but did with him as he was being introduced to an older entire Border Collie X. It worked just fine and he never appeared reluctant to go into it on the command "Cage".
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no other grain free foods available to us.
why not? you\re in South Lanarkshire (as am I), not the Falklands!
I have a 6 month old working goldie on milieus wolf heart and RAW, no overnight accidents since the first week I had him (at 10 weeks)-he is on three meals a day, three poops a day. He's in a pen overnight.
crate train him and rethink the amount/what you are feeding. my goldie (who was 20kg at 20 weeks) was only getting 100gms of MWH at that time (although its relatively high in protein).
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this site is useful as a guideline to costs, ingredients etc
http://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk (http://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk)
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Re food quantities, remember that high nutrition food will be more concentrated, a food with fillers will cause more bulk to pass through intestines and out the other end! I saw a big difference in output between conventional kibble, tinned meat, and proper raw feeding. Actually it's one of the ways I judge digestibility and quality of the food.