The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: crobertson on September 19, 2016, 07:54:05 pm
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Just looking for advice about buying and keeping rams.
We have 6 texel shearlings who we will be breeding this season. We have our local breeding ram sale this weekend where we are looking to be an easy lambing ram such as a charrolais or Lleyn etc. I would personally prefer to buy a ram as I know he'll be properly cared for, all health requirements met etc I think I would be on pins using someones else's ! We might be getting a couple more shearling ewes and hopefully will get a shearling ram.
Obviously I know he can't get kept on his on pre-tupping so will get a buddy but the price of wethers at the minute isn't far off the cost of a ram so thought about getting two rams (or a ram lamb) which I could grow on and always sell next year. Would they both be alright in with the ewes together ? ? We are sponging the ewes and might bring them in to ensure matings as we're on a tight lambing schedule next year so when they're put back out surely this is similar to how some farmers stick chaser rams in.
Would a shearling ram be better with a ram lamb in terms of hierarchy ? We do have several paddocks not fenced where we use electric fencing, as the ewes and lambs will be in properly fenced fields it does give us somewhere to keep them once they come out at lambing away from the others.
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Yeah two tups work fine together. Will you be able to/want to know which one did the deed?
I put two 5 month ram lambs in with a 4tooth tup last week, no bother.
Sorry I don't understand the bit about electric fence??
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I was planning on using different coloured raddle - would you suggest an older ram and a tup lamb are a better combination ?
Sorry I probably didn't explain very well, we have several fields; two are fully sheep netted which we will use for ewes and lambs next year and the others we divide using electric fencing. As we won't have the lambs around electric fencing it leaves a couple of acres free over summer so we do have someone to keep the rams.
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With these low numbers one ram lamb will do the job, and I wouldn't overlook an aged ram either. He could go in, do the deed and then be sold off for meat.
I personally wouldn't go into an auction as total novice, you are most likely to be bid up... but maybe go and watch and then chat to one of the local vendors to buy direct off-farm.
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We did look at ram lambs but the texel shearling ewes have really grown to potential this year and the ram lambs seem too small. Also with sponging I was advised to use an experienced ram rather than a lamb.
I have been looking of sites such as preloved / farming adds so might buy off them but still go to the auction for experience.
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I'd be inclined to buy a well grown ram lamb then sell him, rather than have the bother of having him around all year. If you've two rams I wouldn't keep them in the same field together pre-tupping and certainly not if they're within sight and smell of a female sheep, whether teg or ewe. Don't forget rams can sprint at 30 mph for short distances and have skulls six times as thick as that of a human. They can and will kill each other.
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Thanks for your reply.
Would you suggest only keeping a ram with a wether then ? As we've only got ewes we would have to buy a companion and then a ram, as there isn't much price difference I thought two rams would be better as we might have a friend wanting to borrow one at tupping time. We're not fussed about any meat yet so think buying and then putting in the freezer is a waste ?
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Also much should we pay ?
I have seen a 4 shear Lleyn ram - £100
A 3 shear Lleyn ram - £140-150
Shearling Lleyn £250
Do this sound about right for private adverts ? ? We do have a local ram sales this weekend where a 4 shear, 3 shear and shearling Lleyn are in the catalogue but have no experience of the sales / likely prices.
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How long is a piece of string- all depends on the quality of the ram. You can get good lleyns and bad lleyns, same for any breed. For MV registered pedigree it seems about £300-400 is a good starting point for a shearling, £200-250 for a ram lamb. At a sale though anything might happen, from what I've seen prices at sales this year have been higher (we were looking at buying shearlings this year and in the end bought 8 privately for a lot less than they have been making at sales!)
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If you only have work for one ram then why buy two? Keeping one to sell on seems a lot of work and better ways to invest your cash.
We bought a ram lamb last year because prices fell just as we were looking and in the end he worked out cheaper than AI, which had been a consideration. We have sponged both years but last year our lambing wasn't tight at all. This time round we don't know yet but he did serve them all when we turned in two weeks ago.
As for price a ram is half your flock so buy the best you can afford. There is some really sound advice is this thread.
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Thanks for all the advice ! I have seen a private advert for a 3 shear ram who has good confirmation, a proven sire all vaccinated etc for £140. I know he's 3 shear but I don't see that being a problem for us. We would have about an hour and half journey to collect whereas this weekends sale is about 15 / 20 mins away. Decisions decisions :)
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Buying from the farm means you only have to worry about disease risk from one person not several although isolation when you get anything home is always advisable. Go and look!
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Just a thought. :idea:
As I understand you've got some well grown texel shearling ewes and understandably you want an easy lambing ram to minimise lambing problems. Presumably also you want as good a return as possible from the breeding. So ideally you don't want to produce offspring which are worth less than their mothers would have been as lambs; which is what you will be doing by putting a Lleyn ram to texel ewes. The other way round would be efficient because you would be keeping the smaller Lleyn ewes and crossing them to the larger ram and producing lambs of better meat value than their mothers. But your way round you are effectively wasting the value of your ewes by putting them to a lesser ram. (I'm not saying Lleyns are rubbish! They are an excellent maternal breed but you could do a lot better for a terminal sire.)
So your idea of using a Charollais ram would give you much better cross bred lambs than the Lleyn ram would.
And incidentally, don't be frightened of buying from a market.
Go early and you will be able to talk to the owners and find out about the rams they have entered. Reputable sellers will hang about near their animals and are happy to talk to prospective buyers. I once bought a lovely Charollais ram from our local market. The vendor was a well known breeder and was able to tell me about the animal's breeding and performance records. Often breeders will sell at auction if the animal has some slight imperfection in colouring or fleece but is still an excellent quality ram for a small producer.
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Another vote here for a Charolais ram, easy lambing and a decent meat lamb.
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I'd always be happy with a 3-shear tup, especially from a breeder. It means he was good enough to keep and use twice, and probably means that some of his daughters have been retained and he's now to be sold or he'd be tupping his daughters. Whereas an unproven shearling tup might not leave good lambs.
Check his testicles, feet and mouth, and if all those are okay, he's probably a good 'un.
I'd also recommend Charollais for easy lambing and excellent fat lambs, btw.
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I'd also recommend Charollais for easy lambing and excellent fat lambs, btw.
I want to put our lleyn x girls to a charollais next year providing I can find someone who will hire one out to me :)
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Is this your first year lambing and is this the first year for your shearlings lambing? If so I would HIGHLY recommend Lleyn tup. First time texels can be very difficult to lamb but put to a Lleyn tup the lambs pop out much easier and are up and doing really quickly. Next time you can then put them to a texel / Charolais or whatever for better returns.
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Thanks for your reply. I have lambed before at uni where a texel was the terminal sire so had quite afew assisted births but that was a few years ago now and it is our shearlings first time so yes we were definitely looking at a Lleyn so that recommendation is useful. I intend to keep some of the ewe lambs so like the idea of some Lleyn characteristics in them.
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I've no issues with a Lleyn tup for your girls, but a Charollais would be equally easy lambing, very active lambs, and would grow into better fat lambs. So if you had problems finding a Lleyn, a Charollais would be fine.
Texels are quite different. The lambs are bigger and chunkier at birth, the skins (fleeces) are rougher, so more friction in the birth canal, and the lambs are much more likely to be dozy and not get up and find the milk bar - or continue to chase an inexperienced ewe if she's running away from them.