The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: Wizard on May 13, 2010, 02:22:10 pm
-
H asked how many would post on the EU Topic Leaving (L) Staying in(S) Me L
-
Can somebody put a voting thingy on? I don't know how to do it. Anyway I am L L L L!
-
Let's just cancel the direct debit & leave now !!
Dave
-
L for ME TOO!!!
What I can't understand is - if there are so many people in the UK who don't want to remain members of the EU why are we still there?
-
do I really need say anything ? ...well for the record I am L .
Funny how 80% of Germans want out ... the same for the UK ... but STILL they ignore what we want . Thats why their cries of stable government for the good of the nation was just a load of crap !!!
It costs the UK £103 billion to be part of the EU every year . After all the FREE ? grants we get and the pay outs ... we are still -£57 billion every year (thats about £1000 from every man woman and child in the UK , every year )and it is set to rise by huge amounts from now on ...not just a few million ..but by 10's of billions each year .
Oh and why do we have so many foreign workers over here , and the former UK government say they can do nothing about it as it is all to do with free movement within the EU !!! CRAP ... they agreed to let them in and get money back for doing so ....
cheers
Russ
-
Well I stand in the L camp too no surprise there. Need a vote thing don't we o don't know how to do either...
-
I don't know how to do the vote thing either but I'm an L
-
So what are the benifits of being in the EU???? I vote L too!!!
-
Sorry guys, and no I'm not taking the piss, I love the EU. I'm 100% S
-
Seriously I really would like to hear from someone who could tell me about the perceived benefits to the UK being part of the EU. I genuinely can not see anything so if anyone out there can enlighten me then I would welcome the debate... So go on if anyone on TAS knows why the heck we're in it still or why govnmt think it's good for us really please enlighten me cause I just can't see it but hell maybe I'm uninformed.. I'm listening just what are the arguments for because I honestly don't know..
-
Good. So go on oink tell me why is this good for our nation?
-
I'm an L too but I can think of one good reason to stay part of EU... Trade. If we weren't part of the EU the negative members would boycott our products... unfortunately we still need to sell our products abroad and to buy in raw materials for our (small) production companies
-
Understand that Ian and that was always the premise of the EU Free trade.. But really do we get enough out of he eu to justify the billions spent? Doesn't it cost us so much more? This was only ever meant to be for trade but it's become a federal state that dictates our countries laws and we have to pay in and bow down. How much benefit do we really get to our trade industries? Does this really out way the cost? I'm not convinced and the truth is neither is the huge majority of Uk citizens.
-
I'm thinking mainly of the farmers who get a decent price because france buys a lot of our beef and lamb.. without that trade our beef and lamb prices would drop by 1/4 overnight farming would be devestated by that
PS I did say L !!
-
Lol I know you said L I just struggle to believe there really is an argument that holistically covers why we should be there. I know there are incidents where we may benefit but as a whole why???
-
as for trade .. well as many people have said, we buy far more from Europe than we sell , since the closing of our manufacturing base .
Yes we can sell to Europe , but we also sell to other parts of the world too.
Also if Europe was to sanction our goods , we would sanction theirs ..and think what that would do to BMW , Mercedes , etc etc ..
The fact is Europe needs us far more than we need them .
However, we do NOT NEED to be in the EU . We traded perfectly well before the EU , and could easily do so again . But now they tell us that we must be in the EU to exist ? crap.
Truth is we do not need to sell to Europe , by all accounts over 90% of our trade goes to outside the EU , a fact that they never seem to mention for some reason.
At the moment EU membership costs the UK £57 billion . That amount is set to rise by a huge amount . The exact figures are hard to come by , because the government won't tell us . But it is believed to be 30%-50% more ....That would mean every single person of the 60 million in the UK would be paying £1300-£1500 a year to stay in the EU .
Do the sums folks ..... not everyone of the 60 million in the UK are of working age !!! so all the others have to make up for that . Taxes are going to go through the roof soon , vat is one of the first to go up .
The EU is going to cripple the UK . The leaders of the EU said they were going to end the UK's leadership of trade and industry ..job done !! and then they would end the UK control of the money markets , job in progress.
Our police force is to be replaced by Europol , job in progress , and the same with our armed forces , once again job in progress. Our diplomatic core is now secondary to any EU diplomats .
The EU is systematically pulling the UK apart , and we are letting them do it .
I had uncles die in WW2 , fighting to keep the UK free . If I were able to speak to them now , I could not look them in the eye and explain why, we have let our country be given away and taken over and ruled by the very people they were fighting .
I feel ashamed that myself and my generation have allowed this to happen .
Russ
-
As duncan valentine would say............ I'm out!!
-
and I'm with you Russ but as I have said them as matter are getting the cream.I wonder if they have thought will they when we are of no importance.I am not as such a violent man,but I do believe if I am bare handed I won't attack a foe armed with a sword.If I have a sword I won't attack a man with a gun.Like wise if I control a nuclear bomb,there are few (say 1) that will consider attacking me.Some of these Middle Eastern Groups are unpredictable .But if you are defenceless? ??? :o >:( :farmer:
-
Im for Stay. But then I live over here.
-
Im for out!! our strongest asset is that we are an island and should be self sufficient and cut them loose, can you imagine what would of happened thanks to the Greeks if we were in the Euro????
-
Looking at the EU as something 'over there' makes you think that we are outside this Europe thing. I am old and biased . My dad was badly wounded in the last European war and that makes a good reason to have one fairly united Europe rather than face more local fighting.
I have benefited from several jobs in Belgium and the Netherlands so I can see good things there as well.
I worked in Brussels for a while and found it scary the way the European Commission works so slooowwwly. Any topic gets studied, dissected, re-assembled, reviewed, analysed and assessed. Then a consultant is hired and the whole process repeated! After a year, it's time for new budgets and start again! The administration is enormous.
Also, we (the British) take all the EU directives very literally and make them into laws. Other countries either ignore their laws or write them in such a vague way as to make them unenforceable (IMHO). This means that directives on the size of fruit or straitness of bananas (whatever) don't have much if any impact.
While in Brussels, I met several Europeans who thought the British had let the side down by not joining the Euro. They thought we were selfish in keeping the Pound. They saw the Euro as a strong currency to resist the Dollar taking over. That was back in 2000 so perhaps their thoughts are different now. I wonder if were in the Euro back then whether places like Greece would have been allowed to join the Euro when they did? Places like Romania and Bulgaria haven't (been allowed to) join yet and won't until they get their economies sorted out.
The French like to keep their farmers well supported. France is twice the size of the UK but with a similar population so this is a big deal for them. I think some re-organisation of the payment scheme is needed but we seem to need to support farming in some way to keep the land properly used and managed so it is not something to ignore.
It's a funny old world but I like this (European) part of it and think the EU has enough good bits to want to stay inside it.
NN
-
Firstly, a united europe doesn't try to kill eack other, it's the greatest experiment for peace there has ever been.
Secondly, my main reason for liking the EU is freedom of movement. Big (and small) companies all round the world operate with freedom of capital, however if the people are ordered to stay in one place there is only one winner...the companies. They move around the world only employing the cheapest labour but with freedom of movement wages all over the poorest countries will rise as people will chase the jobs and wage inequality will stabilise ( I realise all the UKIP supporters are now up in arms ;, sorry I agree with immigration!)). Just look at the unification of Germany - the people in west Germany weren't too happy to pull the east Germans up the economic ladder but it was the fair and decent thing to do. Plus united Germany is far more powerful because of it.
I agree that if we only worry about ourselves then, in the short term, we may be better off. However as china, india, brazil and russia start flexing their muscles, which will only happen more and more frequently, the UK on its own becomes more and more irrelevant. An EU working together is the only thing that stands a chance to break America's laissez faire economic model and stand up to the emerging countries. I'm not saying the EU WILL work but I feel we have to try.
Let the attacks on my views commence, but please be polite ;D
Just to help the people who disagree with me here's some ammo - I agree with peoples 'right to roam' in the countryside AND all over the planet. It's one world and we shouldn't be told where we can and can't go!
You might say I'm a dreamer...
-
Oink and you think our nonexistant car industry is going to overtake VW and Merc to say nothing off BMW.Overtake the far east.They will sell here You think we will be selling there in your dreams. Oh I cannot bother There is NOWT in it for Britain and that includes Scotland Annie love even less for me and thee :'( :farmer:
-
Sorry not convinced I hate the fact weve been landed with the economic migrants I see too many young folk in my rural community including my son fighting for hours at the local factory there are hundreds round here because of the factory and local people can't get work. Nope I'm still in the L camp and nothing said so far changes things for me but interesting to hear others views so thanks.
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-CrNlilZho
the film explains why we are in the EU and why our so called government hasn't taken us out ....
If you stop the film when the first list of people attending the Bilderburge meeting , you will see the names of Ed Balls and Kenneth Clark ....
The film also explains why the UK is being invaded by foreigners ....
cheers
Russ
-
I say Russ with a Schools Secretary like him what do you expect?
-
All the reasons given for staying in are still valid if we were out. I don't mind the migrant workers coming but if they don't work and pay taxes then we shouldn't subsidise them.
-
All the reasons given for staying in are still valid if we were out. I don't mind the migrant workers coming but if they don't work and pay taxes then we shouldn't subsidise them.
I'll second that!
-
I agree with the second part of that re paying taxes but given we now no longer have much in the way of industry there isn't enough work around in some areas particularly to sustain the influx. Now I know there are British folks who live on benefits by choice rather than necessity (and that's a whole new topic for heated debate) or folks who won't take min wage work but the number coming in to work out weighs this and means those that do can't. BTW the agency my son works for makes a higher profit from giving a polish person hours than giving the Brit.. So guess who gets most of the work...
-
What do you second annie love?
-
There has been a survey done of 1,000 british residents including Afghans,
Romanians,Pakistanis,Indians, Poles, Iraqis, Somalis, Africans,
Albanians,Turks, Cockneys, Brummies, Liverpudlians and Glaswegiens.
They were asked if Britain should change its currency to the Euro.
99% said that they were happy with the Giro
-
99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% rate ??? :farmer:
-
Lmao! Sad but probably true
-
I dont want UK to change to euro.
-
It cost us enough to decimalise And I still cannot convert 6 shillings and eight pence to a 1/3 (third)of a pound nor 3and 4pence ;D :wave: :farmer:
-
I am with OINK
Everything stated is true, and as America and Monsanto etc (Russ) are a big threat to the world and to food and the future,
a united Europe is the only thing that can stand up against the giant takeover of the world power by America.
I also agree that you should be free to roam, I do not want to spend the rest of my life living in Yorkshire in a built up town
just because I was born there - I have Irish roots too, and love living in Ireland - its more me to be at the top of the
mountain with no concrete jungle around me - plus I am breathing in clean air and bringing my child up in a much better
environment - and anyone and everyone should be able to make that freedom of choice fo where they live and how they live.
So I am a S - sorry guys, but having already got used to the Euro currency, and after studying Social Science for the last two
years, I find that although there are negative ways of viewing Europe, there are far more positives to see within the way the
structure is made, and if you look at it with open eyes and the true goals of the merger of a united Europe - it is the first step
to COMMUNITY and PEACE.
I am a dreamer too Oink - but for Freedom and peace and sharing for the world - not domination by the Americas.
-
Seem to think snoopy that was what Baldwin fostered ??? ??? ??? :wave: :farmer:
-
::)
-
snoopy. why can't we have all the things you love without being in the E.U?
-
there it is Sheila .. you hit the nail right on the head.... we can .. The EU is not what it would have us believe it is....
cheers
Russ
-
Your right Sheila we can have all these without the EU. Freedom to roam is not something the Eu thought up. I have relatives and friends living all over the world. There are not many countries in the world that you can not go and live in if you are prepared to work and contribute to the economy it is only in this country that you can come sit on your a**e and claim benefits because the EU says you can. The idea of a united Europe is a good one but it would only work without the people. Rant over!!!
-
Yep my thoughts too. They'd have you think the UK would fall apart without the EU and America will take over the world.. Sorry but America already dictate a lot anyway and probably always will regardless and me thinks the EU needs us far more than we need them IMHO.
-
"it is only in this country that you can come sit on your a**e and claim benefits because the EU says you can"
Loads of Brits over here sitting on their @r$es and claiming from the French Gov. One lot have it both ways, they claim from both Uk and France. Another came here suddenly he became disabled from a disability he had had for 30 years. Others just have loads of kids and live off the very generous family allowance.
Its not a one way trade!!!
-
And don't worry about America. Watch China!
-
"it is only in this country that you can come sit on your a**e and claim benefits because the EU says you can"
Loads of Brits over here sitting on their @r$es and claiming from the French Gov. One lot have it both ways, they claim from both Uk and France. Another came here suddenly he became disabled from a disability he had had for 30 years. Others just have loads of kids and live off the very generous family allowance.
Its not a one way trade!!!
This is also true in Ireland - We have brought money in the country and set up a business, but others from all over, but especially Britain are here on the dole and have no intention to work, and a lot of men are here collecting pensions from two countries and fishing all day.
Thing is, Europe do not need the UK at all, there are bigger countries with bigger populations that are truly united with the European ideals - Britain are just sitting on the fence and do not commit, but do not want to lose the benefits either - I wish they would either drop out altogether, or join fully.
-
Snoopy wots the benifits to the man in the street please :farmer:
-
This is an outline of some of the benefits that the UK have had from being part of the European Union without taking it on board fully.
Google Benefits of the E.U. and Wikipedia for more detailed information - it deals with statistics on lots of subjects within a large subject.
All people have their own views - most british people are negative -thats their choice. If they cannot see the advantages, then they should
vote to leave the European Union.
I don't really care either way what the UK do, I am happy to be a European Citizen and can see the benefits from my views of life etc. Its up to
you to decide what is best for your country.
Remember, there are positives and negatives of everything - so you have to be prepared to put some effort in to understand the whole picture. As for the man on the street, well
I would imagine he will be negative to any change and any type of new thinking - its easier not to change or look at another way of doing things - thats why the world is in such a mess!
The Advantages of Being a Part of the European Union
Membership of the Single Market:
The Single Market of the EU has meant that companies going about their
business in EU member states have been forced to lower the prices of
their products to become more competitive.
The single market benefits companies by making it easier & cheaper to
do business in other EU countries. No customs tax is charged on goods
that are sold or transported between member states. The EU also tries
to make each market as similar as possible to ensure fair competition
across national borders.
Free Movement of Citizens:
European citizens have the freedom to live, work, study, and travel in
any other EU country. Since 1995 alone, about 100,000 young Britons
have spent time studying in another European country.
More Jobs:
It is estimated the 3.5 million British jobs are dependent on
Britain's membership of the EU. (Source: UK Jobs Dependent on the EU,
Brian Ardy, Iain Begg and Dermot Hodson, European Institute, South
Bank University)
Money for Development:
The EU is working to develop ?deprived? regions of Europe. Such areas
might for example have high numbers of people unemployed, or be rural
areas without many facilities, like good roads. This development is
carried out using 'European Structural Funds'.
The UK has been allocated a total of ?15.5billion (?10bn) of European
Structural Funds for 2000 - 2006. Over the same period, the UK has
also been allocated ?120 million (?80m) for Fisheries Guidance and
?961 million (?595m) for Community Initiatives.
A Louder International Voice:
By working together in the EU member countries can ensure their
concerns are heard, and taken more seriously, on the international
stage. When the EU speaks it represents about 400 million people
(this will be 500m after enlargement). This is more than the combined
population of the United States & Russia. Margaret Thatcher has said:
?On our own, as a nation of 55 million, we would have some voice, but
not enough."
Greater Protection for Workers:
The European Working Time Directive is an EU initiative designed to
protect workers from exploitation by employers.
The directive lays down regulations on matters such as how many breaks
an employee can take, and how many holidays they are entitled to each
year. It also aims to limit the average time an employee can be
compelled to work to 48 hours a week.
Greater Equality and Social Inclusion:
The EU has done a lot of work to raise the standard of equality for
its citizens. Through EU directives citizens are protected from
employment discrimination on the basis of gender, sexual orientation,
religion or belief, disability and age.
Protection of the Environment:
The Environment knows no border and so the only effective way to
tackle environmental pollution is through international co-operation
and action. Britain has cleaner water, cleaner air and cleaner
beaches because of action at the EU level
Greater Co-operation in Law Enforcement:
EU co-operation is helping to crack down on terrorism, drug
trafficking and organised crime.
-
And you don't see (nor list)the disadvantages, Julie?
-
In response to the comment about us getting off the fence agreed. Let's get off the fence and out of the EU. At least let's have the right to vote and allow all of us the opportunity to decide.
-
My last word on this topic. I won't cut and paste the disadvantages of the EU for the Uk here we can all do google searches, there's many disadvantages too. I am the man in the street and I am in no way either too lazy to take the time to become informed nor am I frightened of change. I am a testing manager by day my livelihood is made from implementing change projects.
I just do not believe on balance that the EU benefits out weigh the disadvantages IMHO. I'm entitled to think that it doesn't mean I'm I'll informed or change phobic just that I disagree. I did ask people for their view on what they thought the benefits were in their view and that's prompted some great debate so thanks everyone for that but I am leaving this subject here now. :)
-
Im for 'L' too :)
-
My word snoopy you do have a vivid imagiation .Your first four line answers ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D I've had enough :farmer:
-
Disadvantages
1. The instability of the system.
Throughout most of the 1980s the UK refused to join the ERM (Exchange rate mechanism). It argued that it would be impossible to maintain exchange rate stability within the ERM, especially in the early 1980s when the pound was a petro-currency and when the UK inflation rate was consistently above that of Germany. When the UK joined the ERM in 1990 there had been three years of relative currency stability in Europe and it looked as though the system had become relatively robust. The events of Sept. 1992, when the UK and Italy were forced to leave the system, showed that the system was much less robust than had been thought.
2. Over estimation of Trade benefits.
Some economists argue that the trade and cost advantages of EMU have been grossly over estimated. There is little to be gained from moving from the present system which has some stability built into it, to the rigidities which EMU would bring.
3. Loss of Sovereignty.
On the political side, it is argued that an independent central bank is undemocratic. Governments must be able to control the actions of the central banks because Governments have been democratically elected by the people, whereas an independent central bank would be controlled by a non elected body. Moreover, there would be a considerable loss of sovereignty. Power would be transferred from London to Brussels. This would be highly undesirable because national governments would lose the ability to control policy. It would be one more step down the road towards a Europe where Brussels was akin to Westminster and Westminster akin to a local authority.
4. Deflationary tendencies.
Perhaps the most important economic argument relates to the deflationary tendencies within the system. In the 1980s and 90's France succeeded in reducing her inflation rates to German levels, but at the cost of higher unemployment, For the UK, it can be argued, that membership of the ERM between 1990 and 1992 prolonged unnecessarily the recessional period. This is because the adjustment mechanism acts rather like that of the gold standard. Higher inflation in one ERM country means that it is likely to generate current account deficits and put downward pressure on its currency. To reduce the deficit and reduce inflation, the country has to deflate its economy. In the UK, it could be argued that the battle to bring down inflation had been won by the time the UK joined the ERM in 1990. However, the UK joined at too high an exchange rate. It was too high because the UK was still running a large current account deficit at an exchange rate of around 3 Dm to the pound. The UK government then spent the next two years defending the value of the pound in the ERM with interest rates which were too high to allow the economy to recover. Many forecasts predicted that, had the UK not left the ERM in Sept 1992, inflation in the UK in 1993 would have been negative (ie prices would have fallen).The economic cost of this would have been continued unemployment at 3million and a stagnant economy. When the UK did leave the ERM and it rapidly cut interest rates from 10% to five and a half %, there was strong economic growth and the current account position improved, but there was an inflation cost.
Another problem that the early 1990s highlighted was that the needs of one part of Europe can have a negative impact on the rest of Europe. In the early 1990s, the Germans struggled with the economic consequences of German reunification. There was a large increase in spending in Germany with a consequent rise in inflation. The Bundesbank responded by raising German interest rates. As a result, there was an upward pressure on the DM as speculative money was attracted into Germany. Germansy's ERM partners were then forced to raise their interst rates to defend their currencies. However, higher interest rates forced most of Europe into recession in 1992 - 1993. Countries such as France couldn't then get out of recession by cutting interest rates because this would have put damaging strains on the ERM. The overall result was that Europe suffered a recession because of local reunification problems in Germany. Critics of the ERM and EMU argue that this could be repeated frequently if EMU were ever to be achieved. Local economies would suffer economic shocks because of policies, forced on them, designed to meet the problems of other parts of Europe.
One way around this would be to have large transfers of money from region to region when a local area experienced a recession, e.g. N. Ireland which suffered structural unemployment for most of the post war period, has had its economy propped up by large transfers of resources from richer areas of the UK with lower unemployment. However, regional transfers are very small at the moment unfortunately. Moreover to approximate the regional transfers which occur at the moment in, say, Britain, there would have to be a huge transfer of expenditures from national governments to Brussels - just what anti Europeans are opposed to. Ref: library.thinkquest.org
-
Snoopy, ........ Just a little bit insulting to label anyone as negative if they're not fooled by all the EU like some are ! ......... maybe you could take the time to explain to us closed minded negative people how democratic the EU is ........... you live in a country that was made to vote again on the Lisbon treaty because they voted wrongly the first time ! .............. at least you got a vote !
Dave
-
Thanks Annie love Thanks Dave You know how long it would take me to hunt all those letters in your post Annie.Phew ah aimm sweatin thinking abart it ;D :farmer: :wave:
-
AHHEM Excuse me, but I was asked for the benefits to the man on the street.
Looking at this post, and past ones we have had regarding the UK taking on the Euro, it would not be wrong to see the UK as negative on this point.
I would have thought, as the Scottish have already taken their Government and Bank currency from England. Sovereignity would not be an issue.
The only people whom seem to agree here are the usually open minded tas members, as I have said I do not care what the UK do - I am happy.
You ALL can google! Some disadvantages in everything as I have stated in my post.
I suppose you all voted for your British Troops to be commanded by the Americans too?
I suppose Bush was right to get Blair to target Afganistan?? Did you vote on that?
You may think that you have a vote, but truthfully, no matter who you vote for, they will make decisions you do not like - rather than have the problems with
the other European countries that our relatives had to fight over in WW1 and WW2, surely a United Europe is a way forward.
NO - Thats ok - as I say, I am happy
::) :o ???
-
Snoopy, ........ Just a little bit insulting to label anyone as negative if they're not fooled by all the EU like some are ! ......... maybe you could take the time to explain to us closed minded negative people how democratic the EU is ........... you live in a country that was made to vote again on the Lisbon treaty because they voted wrongly the first time ! .............. at least you got a vote !
Dave
Hello Dave - Yes, you are quite correct - I VOTED NO both times, most of my Irish neighbours were told by their respective MP's to VOTE YES - as it is not going to go away.!!!!!
Some people are too scared to stand and be counted more than once it would seem.
YES this was a very un-democratic decision for the then French President to make us vote again in order to give the answer HE desired - and he did get away with it.
But I did get a vote, the Irish Constitution does make sure that the Irish People will always have a vote, hopefully in the future our first answer will be accepted.
If a Government want to do something - they will change the goalposts and boundaries of constituencies and counties to get there way - its all been seen before
At least I know what I am dealing with, and we all will see disadvantages - and corruption - and we still have to vote them in or " accept what is".
Thats the way it is. :o
-
Snoopy, the point I'm trying to make is that just because others on here don't share your enthusiasm for the EU it doesn't make us negative ......... maybe, just maybe we're clever enough to see when something is a great big Con engineered to benefit the political elite .......... and paid for by us Bloody Mugs !!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/7754100/The-euro-crisis-is-a-judgment-on-the-great-lie-of-Europe.html
-
I wasn't going to comment again but oh well.. Snoopy the point here I feel is that regardless of whether people support the EU or not this post was a forum to discuss. We've done that but I feel branding people either too lazy to bother to become informed, frightened of change and too negative to see the benefits you see is a tad insulting. Thankfully we all live in countries where we have the freedom to express our views.. Let's all do it without insulting others whose view differs from our own please.
-
I don't reckon to argue with you Helen but I think snoopy is being bloody insulting.IS Snoopy of German extraction I wonder.Great Britain won the 2nd World War but my GOD and I am an atheist they have won the Peace ??? ::) :o ??? :farmer:
-
I don't reckon to argue with you Helen but I think snoopy is being bloody insulting.IS Snoopy of German extraction I wonder.Great Britain won the 2nd World War but my GOD and I am an atheist they have won the Peace ??? ::) :o ??? :farmer:
You know Wizard it is with thoughts and comments such as you made above that there will always be wars in this world and lives and property will needlessly be destroyed. This is not a poltical forum and would remind people of that, we are all entitled to voice our opinions and granted not all the time people will like them. Snoopy has lots of friends on this site that I am sure will also be horrified by your comment. Please remember that this is a site that encourages the making of friendships and does not encourage bickering or racism. :)
-
OH dear :farmer:
-
Julie obviously feels very strongly, and I have met her - she is very enthusiastic and a really nice person, and is UK not Irish born (that I know of anyway?) but I have to agree, Julie - we all have our own opinions and the forum is for discussion. Perhaps you could explain to everyone why you are so adamant that the EU might be good for the UK, bearing in mind that things are a lot different over here than in Southern Ireland. Could you compare Eire with the UK maybe?
-
I don't reckon to argue with you Helen but I think snoopy is being bloody insulting.IS Snoopy of German extraction I wonder.Great Britain won the 2nd World War but my GOD and I am an atheist they have won the Peace ??? ::) :o ??? :farmer:
I haven't looked at this for ages. This comment is inappropriate, IMHO. No problem with people discussing "non-smallholding" issuse (although the EU IS a smallholding issue, I suppose) but let's keep it clean, folks.
I enjoy the dabate and the discussion. It would take an awful lot to change me from a L to a S. I think we could have the benefits of the EU without the bureaucracy and the costs. What gets me is that what we've got isn't what we voted for way back. The EEC was about trade - now it's taken over our lives. I know I'm may be kidding myself that UK democracy is truly democratic (well, the lack of a vote on Scottish independence and the EU are two examples) but it's a damn sight better than Europe. IMHO
-
I think the EU or ANY political discussion is valid , even on a smallholding site such as this . Try running any smallholding or even just have a couple of goats , without coming up against things that are governed by politics. The paperwork for one !!! But every other step is also controlled by politics/governments , so I think it is a valid discussion .
Also , look under the heading of the Coffee lounge title James !! See what it says ::) ;D ;D
I can see where George is coming from , being of , shall we say the slightly older generation ( no offence intended there George !!) . I can also understand where Julie is coming from , although I am of totally the opposite view with regards the EU . I am not anti Europe or Europeans , just anti EU , they are most definitely not the same , although some seem to confuse them .
Politics controls our lives at every step these days , and the people that don't like talking about them ...well don't !! Others who see things changing and have an opinion on them , would rather talk about them , and that is where differences will always occur .
As some of you may know , I have certain thoughts ,and voice them sometimes . Sometimes people disagree with those thoughts/comments. No problem ..sometimes things get a bit heated , again no problem . If I feel a line has been over stepped I say so , in a straight clear manner . If it goes any further , IE personal !!, then I offer to take it off public view and discuss privately . But no matter what anyone says about me or too me , I think ? , I am a fair person and don't hold grudges , I take it on the chin and move on .
The trouble is we have become a Politically Correct world (I had to write it out in full to avoid saying " we are a PC world" , don't want any law suits ::) ), and dare not say anything that people have been brainwashed into thinking racist or whatever. Well I am of the old school and say what I think , it isn't intended to offend but if it does ...tough !! We are all meant to be grown ups , and it is a big tough world out there .... remember the saying ... "sticks and stones " ?
cheers
Russ
-
You are so right Russ Can you translate F U Jack I'm Fire proof Holier than thou's P.c. correct Lets get back to proper English men and women we are NOT the Victorian World Rulers any more just a back yard outfit that their leaders think they are.Before long they won't have any thing to lead.Bring back Winnie he would not have stood by Yes I'm 73 Russ and know what my uncles fought for ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
-
Hello Russ I think the big problem is One tends to group them all as enemies and of course this is not so There are many fine lads I have associated and worked with over the years who are German. When I was a teenager with my very good pal he was a German lad his brother was called Wolfgang I still have several pals who are Polish.It was Vince who taught me the art of smoking (food) but I couldn't get into his favourite food We used to go down the mill race at West an fork ells then smoke them Now that is definitely Tibetan Cow Let me assure you Russ Bonny crap to me.I still believe the EU will end Britain as Britain Next thing NO QUIDS Euro's instead Look what it cost to change to Decimal.A third of a Quid was six shillings and eight pence.What is it now something akin to petrol at 120.9p per ltr
-
L L L all the way, i cant argue the toss like the rest of you abut all i know iss that we should never ever enter the Euro and would be best off out of this big brother, do as i say not as i do mentality.
Im not negative, i just believe that we really should look inwards and support our nation, we can do with out it all.
-
My word Helly You don't need to argue the point To me you are 100% right.Don't think the Canadians or the Maori's will put them selves about to help after the way they were treated ??? :wave: :farmer:
-
yes I know what you mean George mate ...I do the same sometimes , when , for example , talking about the EU . I will mention the Germans ... now I mean the German government ...NOT ALL GERMANS !!! They are same as you and me .... It is their government that is corrupt and not doing what their people want them to do , the same as ours.
I have a German Auntie who was in the Hitler Youth . She isn't a bad person . You could argue that the Hitler youth was somewhat similar to the scouts ...but sadly run by terrible people with ulterior motives . The doctrine , as time went on, changed also . But although she was a member of the HY , I don't blame her for my uncles being killed by German soldiers , no more than I blame the ordinary people of Germany now.
I don't think any comments you made are of the sort to cause war or death and destruction in any way . Your comments were your opinion and no more than that . But I do think that politicians ignoring the people and consistently lying to them about reasons for Invading other countries does cause death and destruction even as we sit here now it is still going on .
Also the Eutopia that we are told is the EU ( I do know how to spell Utopia), seems to be based on, lets all get together and then we have a bigger stick to hit the US with !!! or China !! or whoever ? Is that Eutopia ? If it is , I was in utopia when I was in school , and didn't know it .... 'My gangs is bigger than yours and can kick the crap out of you !!' MMMM I didn't join any gang then , nor will I now , if given a choice.
We have been lied to about the EU every step of the way ... but there again one of the leaders of the EU quoted Hitler/Goebbels " lie to the people long enough, and in the end , they will believe it. " he also added " when they realise it, it will be too late for them to do anything about it , we will have control !! " , democracy eh ?
This seems to be the mentality of many EU leaders ...Sarkozy said when asked about Irelands no vote on the Lisbon treaty ( EU law stated that if one nation state voted no, the treaty would be dropped/void !! ), "they will have to vote again until they vote YES" , then asked about the EU law he said "We will change it !!"
cheers
Russ
-
Russ.A little thought very little.If you are coming up the street with a 2X2 in your hand I am not likely to attack you.By the same token if I have a 2X2 in my hand and you have a sword,I'm still not.Again if I have the sword and you have a hand gun.The same applies.My opinion only Hit him first take away his weapon and then explain to him the price of corn ??? ::) :-[ :farmer: :wave:
-
lol... yep ...walk gently grasshopper....( mind you , look what happened to him ..ended up hanging himself in a wardrobe !!!)
cheers
Russ
-
right, well, depending on your view of the EU , there could be some good, or bad news on the way very soon.
It looks very much like the euro is going down the pan . In reality it has already . There may be a few ups and downs on the markets , but mostly the direction for the euro will be down .
As with things like this , the powers that be in the EU ,USA ,UK and so on, don't want this to happen , and will prop it up for as long as they can . But it looks like a return to national currencies is possibly on the way . ;D
The fall of the euro could also mean the fall of the EU . Germany may have to pull out or at least change their commitment to it drastically . Spain , Portugal and Ireland , are in serious trouble , so to is the UK , but we are not in the eurozone . The EU trillion $ money printing escapade looks doomed to failure as was our £200 billion , and so too was the US' multi trillion $ printout.
Now we have our elections over , as they have too in Germany NRW ,the cuts are about to begin , and they will be on a massive scale . Hyper inflation is a distinct possibility , even on the same scale as it was in Germany in the 1920's , where you could go to buy a loaf of bread with a wheelbarrow full of money , by the time you get there it costs two wheelbarrows full !!
Has the whole euro debacle has come to the end many people said it would do ?. Maybe the EU is next ?
Hang on to your seats folks .... get ready for TSTHTF !!!! on a massive scale .
cheers
Russ
-
You are no doubt right with your thoughts Russ and look what it has cost to go nowhere.Mind you some persons have feathered their nest(s) if some reports are to be believed ??? :farmer:
-
Tlaking of feathering nests from a US perspective, watch Michael Moores Capitalism: A love story.
-
Not to sure about China Sheila.There is an ill wind blowin in Hong Kong.Is those in Patemoster Square going to benefit :o :-\ :D :farmer: