The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: Womble on July 14, 2016, 05:20:04 pm
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So on Saturday I thought one of our ewes had been stung by a wasp (or eaten one!), as her cheek was looking really puffy. I thought it looked a bit better on Monday and Tuesday, but by this morning it was looking really bad again (see photos).
The vet came out, and to my surprise drained rather a lot of what looked like muddy puddle water out of an abscess on her upper jaw. The smell was horrific, and despite a shower and change of clothes, still somehow lingers. Actually that was only three hours ago and her cheek is already blowing up again so it looks as though I'm going to have to drain it and flush it again tonight and for the next few days at least.
Oh joy! ::)
Still, it could be worse - I could have just been made Secretary for Implementing Brexit :o .
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Oh bless her, I've never seen anything like that before, hope she makes a speedy recovery. Aren't you glad she's a Zwartbles so nice and easy to handle, imagine if she'd been a Welsh! :innocent: ;D
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Oh bless her, I've never seen anything like that before, hope she makes a speedy recovery. Aren't you glad she's a Zwartbles so nice and easy to handle, imagine if she'd been a Welsh! :innocent: ;D
Or a Manx :innocent:
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Yes, the vet took blood samples from all the adults today and commented on how calm they all were.
She's looking a bit better now. That has to be the most disgusting thing I have ever done in my life.
Now chilling with an extra large Laphroaig!
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I would drink the single malt myself instead of giving it to the sheep.
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Smallholding mistakes you only make once, number 872:
Face all puffed up again this morning, so I carefully, oh so carefully opened up the wound again using a sterile razor blade....... only to be hit full in the face by a pressurised squirt of unmentionable disgust. Didn't lose my breakfast though, much to Mrs Womble's surprise.
Between us, Bonnie Zwartble and I have now polished off the rest of the Laphroaig. Honestly guys, I was on this forum for a couple of years before we bought a smallholding. Why on earth didn't somebody warn me about stuff like this?!?! :tired:
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Well it is a learning curve for all of us too reading about it ;D Sorry you have to go through all this, I can only imagine what it must be like :( I hope she gets better soon!
All the best
WBF :thumbsup:
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She is on AB's too?
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Hi Anke, No she isn't actually. The vet gave her some metacam, but didn't offer antibiotics.
I did wonder later if she should have had a shot of something, but at the time the vet seemed pretty sure that it would clear up as long as we kept draining and flushing.
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Hi Anke, No she isn't actually. The vet gave her some metacam, but didn't offer antibiotics.
I did wonder later if she should have had a shot of something, but at the time the vet seemed pretty sure that it would clear up as long as we kept draining and flushing.
For open wounds my vet always suggests a shoot of a longacting AB, but maybe Terramycin spray will do the trick?
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Maybe, but actually I'm not worried about the external wound here - it's the internal infection that's causing the problem. She seems a bit less puffy this morning though, so hopefully we're starting to get somewhere.
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Antibiotics can tend to encourage the body to wall off the abscess further so often draining and flushing is sufficient, with blue spray to give local antibiotic action killing bacteria, and helping to deter flies. Hope she feels better soon!
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Smallholding mistakes you only make once, number 872:
Face all puffed up again this morning, so I carefully, oh so carefully opened up the wound again using a sterile razor blade....... only to be hit full in the face by a pressurised squirt of unmentionable disgust. Didn't lose my breakfast though, much to Mrs Womble's surprise.:
I have a bag labelled "Scrap Cloth" which is full of 60cm squares of old towels that've been boiled, dried, then sealed into plastic bags for just such a situation. Lance with the cloth above the scalpel.
The other thing to remember is that if you're pulling a long-dead lamb to wear full waterproofs, elbow length disposable gloves and throw yourself sideways as the lamb comes out .....
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Goodness, poor Bonnie, didn't look anything like as bad as that when I was over for tea on Tuesday, traumatic week for both of you (and Mrs W) Glad it's only an abscess, could have been worse I think. (vet thought Freckles lump was an abscess at first)
Hope you get it cleared soon. Not nice for her in the heatwave we're getting from tomorrow - flies galore no doubt.
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Well, the saga continues! (caution anybody who's eating breakfast):
Despite flushing and draining for four days, and then draining for the next three (the wound had healed up too much to get in there to flush), the yuk just kept on coming!
So, we had the vet out again this morning. He made a new incision further down her jaw (no joy), then joined it up with the original (still no joy). Finally he stuck the blade in deeper at the site of the original incision, which resulted in a rather dramatic spurt of blood and yuk (I have learned to keep my face clear by now at least). I actually think we've been diligently draining surface gunk for the past few days, but leaving the actual abscess untouched (very hard to tell what's abscess and what's inflammation).
'Bonnie' has now been re-christened 'Scarface', but hopefully she'll turn the corner now. She's also had a decent jab of Betamox this time, which we're to continue with for the next few days. I'll call them again on Monday to report progress and decide what to do next.
Quite a learning experience this one......
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Oh blimey, poor girl, sounds grim! Really hope it all drains out well now and that she's fighting fit again soon :fc:
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Good news! She's responded really well to the antibiotics. The swelling has all but disappeared now, and the wound has stopped weeping. I'm very pleased she's on the mend, and colleagues have stopped asking "what's that smell?" whenever I walk past!
Thank God for antibiotics though - we'll be really stuffed if they ever stop working. Good job that's not going to happen..... oh, wait.....
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It was all going too well :( . Everything healed up, and just left a small hard lump on the bottom of her jaw, which didn't seem to bother her.
However I noticed today that the abscess on her cheek has returned - roughly a month after the first infection cleared up :-[ . I've lanced and drained it (getting good at that now), and have dosed her up with antibiotics.
I'm now worried that the lump on the bottom of her jaw might be indicative of CLA (http://www.nadis.org.uk/bulletins/caseous-lymphadenitis-(cla).aspx) - it's right on the location shown in this picture (http://www.crookwellvet.com.au/portals/crookwellvet/CLA%201.jpg) for instance. I'm going to speak to the vet tomorrow. If it is CLA, I think she'll have to be culled, and if it isn't, I'll give her one more chance, but if it comes back again.....
Mrs Womble doesn't like talk of culling, and just accused me of being a heartless B****d. Am I? and if I am, why am I so utterly gutted? Maybe farming gets easier if you have a few thousand, and they're all just numbers. When you've only got eight though....... :'(
Edited to add photos taken this morning: The upper lump is squashy and contains salad cream. The lower lump is hard. Any thoughts on what the hard lump might be, and whether it's in the right place for a lymph node or not?
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Sounds like time to test for it. I hope it isn't :fc:
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Not cheap to test but it's probably the only thing that'll put your mind at rest. Could be it's time to start thinking about the quality of life for this ewe ....?
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Definitely time to test for CLA...., and even if she is negative for that - I would also consider her quality of life as Marches Farmer says..., sadly as a livestock keeper you have to make these decisions for your animals from time to time...
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Sorry to be blunt, but if it is CLA, you surely have no choice but to cull? For the sake of all the others, and for all the flocks the shearer and the vet visit after you.
And that's the thing about livestock. It isn't all gambolling in the daisies. (I know you know that - and your exploits with this ewe's face could hardly be classed as gambolling in the daisies!)
And of course you'll be gutted if you do have to cull her. It's harder this time, because you haven't been doing this for long. But it's still hard, ten years on, and even with hundreds of sheep. One gets better at dealing with it, and one gets better at making the decision, and at being convinced you're doing the right thing in the best interests of the animal. But it still hurts.
And I think you're right, if it's not CLA, assuming the vet agrees too, give her one more chance. After that, it's not fair on her to have to keep going through this.
Or the vet may be able to offer an operation to look for the seat of the infection - as one would for a dog.
Good luck :hug:
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Oh - and I would also keep good track of her offspring, and if they turn out to be a bit prone to abscesses, then I wouldn't breed from her again, nor any of her offspring.
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Yes, agreed. Thanks folks! :thumbsup:
Edit: The vet has been. They don't think the lower lump is in quite the right place to be CLA, and is more likely to be a 'walled off' portion of the previous abscess. They've taken a blood sample to run a CLA test though, just to be sure.
The swelling is much less today too, so hopefully she's on the mend for a second time. Here's hoping it doesn't return, though I'm not holding out too much hope TBH.
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Update: Daily Betamox injections eventually saw to the swelling, though she still has a soft-ish marble sized lump on her bottom jaw. Fingers crossed it won't come back :fc: .
The blood test came back negative for CLA, so at least that's one less thing to worry about. For future reference, the lab test cost us £12 + VAT + call-out fee, and was well worth doing in my mind, just to make sure we hadn't got something nasty that could transfer to our proper-farmer neighbours.
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What a blessed sheep, with a committed, albeit increasingly alcoholic shepherd.... :roflanim: :roflanim: :roflanim:
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The blood test came back negative for CLA, so at least that's one less thing to worry about. For future reference, the lab test cost us £12 + VAT + call-out fee, and was well worth doing in my mind, just to make sure we hadn't got something nasty that could transfer to our proper-farmer neighbours.
CLA test is £5.35 at SAC Labs (+tube cost @£2) I do my own sampling
SAC are by far the cheapest and best (most informed) disease screening service I have found)
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Having been prompted by another thread, I just thought I'd report back on this, given that 18 months have now passed.
So I asked our vet for advice on whether to cull Bonnie for her own welfare, since she had a long-term weeping sore and we were due to start tupping shortly. To my surprise, he said "look, you've only got a small flock, and I think you're managing her welfare just fine. Even commercially speaking, she's your most valuable ewe, and gave you your best ewe lamb last year. So, if she was mine, I'd have her tupped and then manage her through it.
I had some misgivings about this, but we went for it anyway, and to my surprise, in mid November 2016 she must have ejected whatever foreign body was causing the recurring abscess, and everything cleared up completely.
She then went on to give birth to a cracking tup lamb, who is destined to become our new stock tup.
OK, it's not all roses, since she scanned empty this year, and will probably now be culled (especially since we now have her son in the flock), but on this occasion, the gamble paid off :thumbsup: .
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Not a perfect outcome but a positive one ....
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How old she? Don't they get a second chance if they are empty one year? Maybe something happened early on and she aborted? If she is your best ewe I'd give her another chance, depending on age?
I started reading this from the beginning, nearly dropped the tablet when I read something about a heatwave, then I looked at the date of the post LOL.
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How old she? Don't they get a second chance if they are empty one year?
She's four years old now, so we're going to wait and see what ewe lambs we get this year before we make a decision about her.
The thing is, although she's done really well for us, we now have both her daughter and son in the flock, so it could well make sense to move her on. However, since she's been empty this year, I can't with a good conscience sell her for breeding.
She's also about twice as clever as the average Zwartbles (not all that difficult :innocent: ), and if there's one who I can't catch, it's invariably her! Decisions, decisions!
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How old she? Don't they get a second chance if they are empty one year?
The thing is, although she's done really well for us, we now have both her daughter and son in the flock, so it could well make sense to move her on.
WIth goats We've had more than one accident where close relatives have got to each other, in some lines its not unknown to breed dam to son to fix a trait (I'm sure you know that :) [size=78%]), [/size]
[/size]If sons side's line is far enough removed from mum's it wouldn't worry me, go on, give her another chance :)
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But these are all pedigree, dahling. The paperwork would show the lambs as being their own granddads or something#, so it's simply not done!
The way I view this is a bit like picking a football team. We only have grazing for so many, so it's about picking the team that we believe will do best for us, based on either their own, or their Mum's characteristics. Ordinarily I'd try to sell her on, but like I say, unless somebody is willing to knowingly take on a ewe that didn't lamb this year, I can't do that with a clear conscience. We'll wait and see what the ewe lambs look like this year, and will then decide.
# Please don't ask about the genetics of our peafowl :innocent: .
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There are three very good 2017 Indian Blue peacocks of ours going into the Ross-on-Wye rare poultry sale on 24th March, along with a good selection of others ......