The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: adamhfc on July 07, 2016, 02:58:42 pm
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Just to be aware there's a lynx escaped
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Oh exciting (though not for local sheep farmers tho)
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Small ponies in small paddocks will look easier to a lynx not used to hunting for a living.
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Well at least Dartmoor finally has its mythical cat! Just the wrong colour!
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I thought it quite ironic that there were all these warnings not to go near it as it will be dangerous yet they want to release them to live wild up here ::)
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apparently it only arrived there last night, irresponsible or what!
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I suspect the warnings are because the one that has escaped is habituated to humans and as a result is not as inclined to avoid them, but will still revert to instinct if cornered.
Wild predators tend to have great aversion to humans since we have hunted them for millions of years, so they will stay well away from us given the chance. The odds are that virtually no-one would ever see one if they were re-introduced.
I also think have a rather strange perception of risk from wildlife in this country. Virtually everywhere else in the world lives with significant predators - there are lynx, bears and wolves across Europe, plenty of big cats across Asia, Africa and the Americas, plus the large reptiles, sharks and so on. Often in very close proximity to humans. Human fatalities from these are tiny in number compared to those from other humans or our creations, like cars.
We have co-existed for millennia and our bath-tubs are more dangerous :-)
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We live about four miles from the zoo. Been away all day today but no sign of strange cats when I went to lock the hen house. I hope they find it soon, it must be so frightened, and completely disorientated.
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I also think have a rather strange perception of risk from wildlife in this country. Virtually everywhere else in the world lives with significant predators - there are lynx, bears and wolves across Europe, plenty of big cats across Asia, Africa and the Americas, plus the large reptiles, sharks and so on. Often in very close proximity to humans. Human fatalities from these are tiny in number compared to those from other humans or our creations, like cars.
We have co-existed for millennia and our bath-tubs are more dangerous :-)
i don't know about others but my concern is my livestock if they introduce them here. We border woodland which is prime territory for losses
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I suspect the warnings are because the one that has escaped is habituated to humans and as a result is not as inclined to avoid them, but will still revert to instinct if cornered.
Wild predators tend to have great aversion to humans since we have hunted them for millions of years, so they will stay well away from us given the chance. The odds are that virtually no-one would ever see one if they were re-introduced.
I also think have a rather strange perception of risk from wildlife in this country. Virtually everywhere else in the world lives with significant predators - there are lynx, bears and wolves across Europe, plenty of big cats across Asia, Africa and the Americas, plus the large reptiles, sharks and so on. Often in very close proximity to humans. Human fatalities from these are tiny in number compared to those from other humans or our creations, like cars.
We have co-existed for millennia and our bath-tubs are more dangerous :-)
No one thinks human safety is an issue with the introducion of predators into the wild but all over the world there is conflict between wild animals and farmed animals leading to the death of both. Elephants are not preditors but are in danger due to the damage done to crops, Britain is a small area and wolves and big cats in far larger areas cause trouble and get killed for it so why should here be any different?
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i don't know about others but my concern is my livestock if they introduce them here. We border woodland which is prime territory for losses
I agree that risks to livestock are a different issue but I was responding to the comment made about warnings not to go near it because it could be dangerous :)
In terms of livestock it would be an interesting exercise to compare the potential scale of losses due to, eg lynx reintroduction, to the scale of losses from other existing causes such as husbandry practices.
Other parts of the world have and are working out ways to live alongside wildlife better, rather than just killing it when it presents an inconvenience. So the use of bees to protect crops against elephant raids, livestock guardian dogs to protect goats from cheetah and so on. I would like to think that an innovative country such as ours could work out something suitable here so that our environment is once again populated by the things that are meant to be here. :)
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problem is though [member=147294]Black Sheep[/member] with their reintroduction the people doing it have not taken into account that the lynx have been extinct in britain for well over 100 years and habitats have changed. I can absoloutely say with a certain amount of knowledge that the moment they start causing trouble, and are getting to be a decent sized population, the numbers will not be managed and they will be protected by these idiotic loonies who think badgers are cuddly; in other words disastrous, plus the lynx is a big cat it can take out calves let alone sheep. In that case why dont they reintroduce wolves, bears and loads of other wild animals which were made extinct here hundreds of years ago? Habitats change and unless they have a regular food supply which doesnt involve attacking farms and people I am going to protest against it! These idiots dont care about livelihoods and enviroments all they care about is seeing it in its old habitat, which it has been extinct from for hundreds of years, they dont care about its welfare just about oh how nice it would be. I say leave it where it is and where it belongs now, we already have escaped panthers running around the country we dont need yet another predator to worry about! Soz for the rant guys I just get very annoyed with it all! :rant:
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problem is though [member=147294]Black Sheep[/member] with their reintroduction the people doing it have not taken into account that the lynx have been extinct in britain for well over 100 years and habitats have changed. I can absoloutely say with a certain amount of knowledge that the moment they start causing trouble, and are getting to be a decent sized population, the numbers will not be managed and they will be protected by these idiotic loonies who think badgers are cuddly; in other words disastrous, plus the lynx is a big cat it can take out calves let alone sheep. In that case why dont they reintroduce wolves, bears and loads of other wild animals which were made extinct here hundreds of years ago? Habitats change and unless they have a regular food supply which doesnt involve attacking farms and people I am going to protest against it! These idiots dont care about livelihoods and enviroments all they care about is seeing it in its old habitat, which it has been extinct from for hundreds of years, they dont care about its welfare just about oh how nice it would be. I say leave it where it is and where it belongs now, we already have escaped panthers running around the country we dont need yet another predator to worry about! Soz for the rant guys I just get very annoyed with it all! :rant:
Totally agree! Going back in time is never a good idea!
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Lynx and wild boar don't seem to be a problem in Germany - but yes, the habitat is different, they have a lot more woodland.
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The lynx which has escaped is described as the size of a large domestic cat, and as being scared of humans. Traps baited with raw meat have been placed around the area in which he escaped. He will be caught and returned to captivity.
In reply to the point about the danger to the welfare of any currently extinct-from-Britain wildlife on re-introduction, their welfare within a zoo is decidedly suspect. To shut a wild animal in a cage, totally out of its native habitat has to be wrong. How would them being out in the wild be bad for their welfare? They could be shot but that is accepted as a humane way to kill any animal.
I don't see any evidence that 'these loonies' intend to populate the whole of Britain with vast flocks of vicious, dangerous animals which will kill people and destroy entire farmloads of livestock. Any reintroductions will be carried out extremely carefully, and with close support. See the reintroduction of the great bustard in Norfolk - very carefully done. See the support of the Scottish wildcat - a hugely difficult task. Wildcats live with humans but it's very rare to see one, or even to find evidence that one has passed that way.
So let's stop panicking folks - just one little cat has escaped and he's hardly likely to create Armageddon before he's recaptured.
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I wanted to add that our livestock is at much greater risk from domestic dogs, on their own or in packs, than from any reintroduced species. Let's get people to keep their dogs under control, making sure the police take their attacks seriously, before allowing ourselves to be manipulated by the press into unthinking bigotry, without the true facts. The press survives and flourishes on spreading alarm; they're not bothered about mere facts. Please let's rise above all that.
Oh, and Lynx eat rabbits, not sheep and calves.
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I wanted to add that our livestock is at much greater risk from domestic dogs, on their own or in packs, than from any reintroduced species. Let's get people to keep their dogs under control, making sure the police take their attacks seriously, before allowing ourselves to be manipulated by the press into unthinking bigotry, without the true facts. The press survives and flourishes on spreading alarm; they're not bothered about mere facts. Please let's rise above all that.
Oh, and Lynx eat rabbits, not sheep and calves.
Rabbits though are also hunted by other predators like foxes and cats even human beings, sometimes when the population is lower than normal, due to either disease or predators or even weather conditions, if there were animals like Lynx there they are indeed big enough to take down a calf or a sheep, they could become a big nusicence. Problem is if they even taste sheep/calf meat they will come back for more, or say for example a sick farm animal they would definately go for to eat, because they are prey animals and the animal in question is an easy target. Big cats are never a good idea to have around and you would get a few which would see farm animals as an easy option and we really can't deal with this right now. This is just one of my concerns, the other is that habitats change by people living there and up in scotland I am not even sure there would be enough food for them. Why take an animal from its natural habitat and make it live somewhere it doesn't even know? Now that is animal cruelty! I do agree that keeping animals in zoo's isn't good, although some zoo's have really worked on this and have come up with fantastioc soloutions, there is a programme on iplayer dealing with this and zoo's really have vastly improved focusing on the animals health and wellbeing, fascinating really. The only thing I could think of is that obviously they would have to do a breeding programme, which woul;d cost a lot of money, but they would also have to llok at the landscape and determine whether they could in fact put them there, the other thing is the breeding programme could go wrong and they could die, which would be horrible. there are so many factors to consider in this and until they look at every option from every angle I will be against this. I am sorry but this is just my view. From both animal health and wellbeing to my own or firends healths and wellbeing and that of their animals too. I do agree that dogs atm are the biggest threat and that should be dealt with very severely.
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Can I just remind you, this is not a lynx rewilding, but an escape, and the plan seems to be to recapture this lost animal.
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problem is though [member=147294]Black Sheep[/member] with their reintroduction the people doing it
No one is deliberately trying to rewild at the moment - this escape was an accident. There are thoughts about reintroduction but as you have sensibly put it elsewhere, they need to be looked at from every angle to ensure that they are appropriate before any go ahead.
I can absoloutely say with a certain amount of knowledge that the moment they start causing trouble, and are getting to be a decent sized population, the numbers will not be managed and they will be protected by these idiotic loonies who think badgers are cuddly
And this is part of the problem - such entrenched certainty (to some extent on both sides) that removes much of the opportunity for rational discussion and analysis. How can you "absolutely say" what may or may not happen to manage numbers in any future possible reintroduction? Is it fair to sweepingly label anyone who thinks a more balanced ecosystem (like it is meant to be) would be a good thing an "idiotic loony"? ;-)
Look at some of the problems from the vast overpopulation of deer. They damage forestry crops and they result in accidents on the roads - would it not be a good idea to have something that eats them back in the system? I'm being incredibly over simplistic here and don't wish this to become another debate, just highlighting that this is a very complex issue with far reaching implications - not just what one group, or another, "wants".
why dont they reintroduce wolves, bears and loads of other wild animals which were made extinct here hundreds of years ago?
What, like beavers? ;-)
They'd been gone for 400 years or so, but some of the data now shows a benefit on downstream flooding events. Again, I don't intend this to become another debate - just to highlight that you can't reduce discussions like this to preconceptions.
unless they have a regular food supply which doesnt involve attacking farms and people I am going to protest against it!
As said above, such ridiculous claims remove the potential for proper debate. People all around the world live, work, and play in far greater proximity to far more dangerous wildlife than we will ever have back on these shores. They aren't being killed off in droves as a result. Let's maintain a reasonable perspective :-)
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Well said Black Sheep. May I add that 'they' are intelligent folk, with the welfare of animals firmly in mind, who will be doing continuing research into the possibilities of a small reintroduction. If it doesn't look feasible then it won't go ahead, if it does then there could at some point in the future, be a controlled trial reintroduction, with the possibility of shutdown if it all goes wrong.
As I said, let's get to the truth, rather than believing whatever the papers choose to tell us.
Although this thread is about the lost lynx, for whom I feel so sorry, I think the discussion has been interesting and worthwhile.
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Anyhow :innocent:
Have they caught it yet? Poor thing must be terrified
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Anyhow :innocent:
Have they caught it yet? Poor thing must be terrified
Last I heard he's been spotted but not rounded up yet. I think he'll be getting a persecution complex :o
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Poor dear! He may well be confused now but how will he feel being kept in captivity having tasted freedom. My land is almost on the edge of Dartmoor, but I worry more about careless dog walkers (and working farm dogs!) than a lynx.
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So he's been caught and returned to the zoo.