The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: Caroline1 on July 03, 2016, 06:14:38 pm
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I am completing the EAML form to take the pigs to the abbatoir tomorrow and I am getting bamboozled by the question "Type of Pigs". I mean what the hell is a "finisher pig" or a "cull and controlled finisher" ?
They have been raised outside for meat and are now 6 months old. What should I put?
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I always left that out, made no difference! If the abattoir insist, let them put it in!
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Can't recall if it insists on answer. If it did I put finisher pig. I've no idea what a cull and controlled finisher is either., so,assume I had no control!
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Thanks, Have gone for Finished Pig - Non controlled.
Wow it would be good if they could put an easy to follow key on the website.
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My OH took some pigs to the abbatoir last year, declared them "non-controlled" (which I believe is correct for outdoor reared pigs) and they got very awkward as they had to test for some type of parasite and told him that if the pigs had it, the carcasses would be condemned and he wouldn't get them back. He was not amused but luckily they were ok and came back safe. It was a worry though.
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The UK is currently about halfway through an EU imposed trichinella testing regime. This means that pigs that are reared in non controlled housing, ie outdoors, are required to be tested for trichinella at slaughter. The box you tick on the eaml2 form is the only thing that the vets at the abattoir use to determine if your pigs require testing. As far as I am aware the FSA have never actually come out with any of the promised guidelines as to what "controlled" or "non controlled" housing actually is, or at least they haven't told anybody in the pig world if they have. It is down to the pig keeper to decide which box to tick. Your abattoir may be able to advise you which box to tick.
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The UK is currently about halfway through an EU imposed trichinella testing regime. This means that pigs that are reared in non controlled housing, ie outdoors, are required to be tested for trichinella at slaughter. The box you tick on the eaml2 form is the only thing that the vets at the abattoir use to determine if your pigs require testing. As far as I am aware the FSA have never actually come out with any of the promised guidelines as to what "controlled" or "non controlled" housing actually is, or at least they haven't told anybody in the pig world if they have. It is down to the pig keeper to decide which box to tick. Your abattoir may be able to advise you which box to tick.
Neither is there any penalty for declaring wrongly i don't think ;)
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Thanks all. The abattoir accepted them, so just hope all tests are fine and then I have a weekend of sausage, bacon, ham and chorizo making :excited:
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Thanks Hughsey, that makes sense. My abbatior does the test and only inconvenience is it takes another 24 hours before you can collect the meat. I couldn't find anything on what was 'controlled housing' either.
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A finisher pig is this.....
Grower, a pig between weaning and sale or transfer to the breeding herd, sold for slaughter or killed for rations Finisher, a grower pig over 70 kg (150 lb) liveweight.
Cull pig would be an older pig or a sow which hasn't performed well, could mean literally any animal maybe which you have too many of or its not perfect for breeding.
Controlled finisher I think it means they have been recorded from birth weights, weighed reguarlarly and given certain amounts of feed to get to a certain weight on time? Am I right in thinking this?
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I took controlled in terms of biosecurity, not weight. Can't see why Defra would care two hoots about whether the weights were regularly recorded. Nonetheless, we are all filling in these forms when a bit of simple definition on the website might mean they got accurate answers.
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A finisher pig is this.....
Grower, a pig between weaning and sale or transfer to the breeding herd, sold for slaughter or killed for rations Finisher, a grower pig over 70 kg (150 lb) liveweight.
Cull pig would be an older pig or a sow which hasn't performed well, could mean literally any animal maybe which you have too many of or its not perfect for breeding.
Controlled finisher I think it means they have been recorded from birth weights, weighed reguarlarly and given certain amounts of feed to get to a certain weight on time? Am I right in thinking this?
No. Controlled is entirely down to the housing system the pig is reared in.
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If the testing is an inconvenience, eg delays the turnaround of your carcasses or causes any other problems, your abattoir can advise you on which box is applicable to your pigs. To test or not to test rests entirely on where the tick is placed. Nobody will ask you for any evidence to back up your choice of tick box.
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As I understand it trichinosis can be a mild disease in pigs but potentially fatal in humans ingesting improperly cooked pork products. I suspect it's more of a problem in European countries where they eat pork prepared in different ways to those which are usual in the UK. The USA has had a big push to reduce its incidence, mostly involving not feeding uncooked waste to pigs, which is illegal here anyway. I wonder if the abattoir testing is another incidence of one-size-fits-all EU regulation.
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Yes MF I believe we do not have trichinella in this country. We used to only test sows. Testing causes a time delay for the slaughterhouse whilst the results come back so your carcase has to stay with them longer.
There is an explanation of controlled and non controlled for the purposes of the question on the eaml2 system. The link is to the right of the question.
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After taking the pigs and speaking to the abattoir, we explained we were not sure and they crossed out the "non" bit so left it as Finisher - Controlled so the testing was not needed.
I agree I think it is a one fit all that is more relevant to other EU countries. It is just the website document gives some guidance but it is very generic and hard to interpret. It may be more of a risk in high production sites as well where biosecurity is potentially an issue.
I have made a note of this so the next time I take pigs, I don't have this headache. (Hopefully)
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There hasn't been a case of trichinosis in pigs in this country for over 30 years. The EU however would not accept that the UK is free of it without first proof being obtained by a three year testing program. The whole thing is a box ticking exercise.
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After taking the pigs and speaking to the abattoir, we explained we were not sure and they crossed out the "non" bit so left it as Finisher - Controlled so the testing was not needed.
I agree I think it is a one fit all that is more relevant to other EU countries. It is just the website document gives some guidance but it is very generic and hard to interpret. It may be more of a risk in high production sites as well where biosecurity is potentially an issue.
I have made a note of this so the next time I take pigs, I don't have this headache. (Hopefully)
I'm sure they were happy to cross out the "non" bit ;)
The important bit on the BPEX guidance is what they consider controlled and they say organic and free range are "unlikely" but don't rule out they could still come under controlled so not helpful really. As you say you know for next time.
Bio security is a risk for all pigs. Whilst the result of a bio security fail could cost a commercial pig unit dearly they possibly have better bio security than smaller producers and for most units their pigs would be in controlled housing.
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Reading the guidance, it seems to go along with what I was told by other farmers, that ticking 'controlled' means that you believe there is no way that rats or other wildlife could have come in to contact with either your pigs or their feed:
http://www.eaml2.org.uk/resources/000/966/942/BPEX_GUIDANCE_ON_CONTROLLED_HOUSING_CONDITIONS_FOR_TRICHINELLA.PDF (http://www.eaml2.org.uk/resources/000/966/942/BPEX_GUIDANCE_ON_CONTROLLED_HOUSING_CONDITIONS_FOR_TRICHINELLA.PDF)
Interestingly, I was not aware of the final bullet point before: "New animals may be introduced onto the holding only if they come from holdings also officially recognised as applying controlled housing conditions" which would rule us out even if my fields were guaranteed rodent free!