The Accidental Smallholder Forum

Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: Womble on June 20, 2016, 08:13:03 pm

Title: Obtaining MV Accreditation
Post by: Womble on June 20, 2016, 08:13:03 pm
Folks, Has anybody here had their flock tested for Maedi Visna, to gain MV accredited status (http://www.sruc.ac.uk/info/120113/premium_sheep_and_goat_health_schemes)?

If so, can you tell me how you went about it, and how much it cost?

From my reading of the guidance, I need to have all sheep over 12 months old blood tested, and then repeat this six months later. I'm not sure though, do I send the application form off first, or do I organize the blood tests first with my vet?

Any advice and shared experience would be welcome!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Obtaining MV Accreditation
Post by: Buttermilk on June 21, 2016, 07:06:33 am
I rang the scheme administrators and they were very helpful.  They sent me the paperwork and I arranged the vet and sent off the application form at the same time as the vet sent the samples.  I sent in the annual payment and they sent it back as they wanted to invoice me for only the portion of the year that was left and not the full year.
Title: Re: Obtaining MV Accreditation
Post by: Rosemary on June 21, 2016, 10:53:09 am
Biosecurity isreally important, sin't it/ No contact with non-accredited sheep? That's why we don't have MV classes at the Festival  ::)
Title: Re: Obtaining MV Accreditation
Post by: Womble on June 21, 2016, 11:46:00 am
Thanks Buttermilk - very helpful  :thumbsup:

Yes, you're right about biosecurity Rosemary. I went to a show last year which allowed both accredited and non-accredited sheep. These were penned in different areas, and the judge baby-wiped his hands each time he moved between them (it was actually quite comical to watch!). I think our fields are ok as they are though (no contact through the fence with other sheep - only ponies).

The Zwartbles Society are very big on accreditation, so we will have to go down that route if we want to ever enter stock at auction, go to shows, borrow tups etc. So, if we're going to have do it eventually, it might as well be now!

One more question - is there anything else we should consider testing for at the same time, such as enzootic abortion for example?
Title: Re: Obtaining MV Accreditation
Post by: waterbuffalofarmer on June 21, 2016, 03:32:05 pm
Does it make a huge difference in the ring if they're non MV? I was thinking of having mine done in a year or two, but have to get fences really secure before then. Sorry [member=2128]Womble[/member] for hijacking the thread :innocent:
Title: Re: Obtaining MV Accreditation
Post by: silkwoodzwartbles on June 21, 2016, 06:40:16 pm
Excellent timing, the OH and I are thinking of going MV next year so I'm watching with interest :thumbsup:

One quick question, the SAC website states blood tests are £5.25 + VAT for 10+ samples - is this total cost or cost per sample? And is this in addition to the vet fees or are they included within this cost? Do you know how much the annual MV accreditation fee to be paid to SAC is?

Thanks! And sorry to hijack :innocent:
Title: Re: Obtaining MV Accreditation
Post by: Buttermilk on June 21, 2016, 06:55:54 pm
The testing fee is per sample, I think it was about £77 for the yearly membership and I had the vet take the samples when he vaccinated the horses so to reduce his charge.  My vet charges sampling on the time it takes not the number done.
Title: Re: Obtaining MV Accreditation
Post by: silkwoodzwartbles on June 21, 2016, 06:56:36 pm
Thank you :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Obtaining MV Accreditation
Post by: Womble on June 23, 2016, 07:10:48 pm
OK, I'm finding the fees very confusing! I've found three different prices for testing now, and all on the same (SAC (http://www.sruc.ac.uk/info/120113/premium_sheep_and_goat_health_schemes/641/how_to_join)) website!  However, I think the rough cost for a flock of ten adult sheep is going to be roughly as follows (please correct me if this is wrong):


(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j216/Blutack/TAS2011/Sheep/MV%20COsts.jpg)


For fifteen adults it goes up to just shy of a grand  :o spent over the first three years, plus £158 per year average thereafter.


If this is correct, I'm going to have to think about it some more; it's far from being a no-brainer!!  :-\


EDIT, 2018: It turned out that these figures were considerably higher than reality. Please see my updated post below for the true figures.
 
Title: Re: Obtaining MV Accreditation
Post by: Rosemary on June 23, 2016, 08:23:15 pm
A nice wee earner for somebody, I think.

So how serious is MV? It's not an issue for many breeds - seems to be mainly the continentals.
Title: Re: Obtaining MV Accreditation
Post by: waterbuffalofarmer on June 23, 2016, 08:52:17 pm
A nice wee earner for somebody, I think.

So how serious is MV? It's not an issue for many breeds - seems to be mainly the continentals.
serious breeders use it as it ups the amount you can sell them for, rams by aboyt £150 I think.
Title: Re: Obtaining MV Accreditation
Post by: pharnorth on June 23, 2016, 10:02:27 pm
I think your costing is about right [member=2128]Womble[/member]   I have CAE accreditation for my goats from SAC and the costs and flaffing about are similar. My sheep are non accredited it seems it is more common in some breeds than others.  Maybe for terminal sires it makes sense at the high end prices but not sure otherwise.
Title: Re: Obtaining MV Accreditation
Post by: Tim W on June 23, 2016, 10:25:58 pm
A nice wee earner for somebody, I think.

So how serious is MV? It's not an issue for many breeds - seems to be mainly the continentals.

MV is a growing concern and like most diseases it doesn't see breed as a barrier. Many flocks don't even know they have it until it is affecting a large proportion of the flock
A few years ago there was a survey of MV accredited rams bought at NSA sales ---20% (ish) had CLA! So you buy a ram free of one disease and just import another disease?

I sell a few rams (50+) every year but am not MV accredited as I sell to commercial farmers ---instead I screen the flock for a range of diseases. This involves picking out the poor doers/old ewes  in the flock and testing them for MV/CLA/Johnes
This way I have a reasonable idea of what is going on in my flock at an affordable price

We used to be MV accredited but the cost never was recouped in extra sales----I sell more rams now than when I was MV accredited

If you want to be on the 'pedigree' or 'show' circuit you may have to be MV accredited
Title: Re: Obtaining MV Accreditation
Post by: Womble on June 23, 2016, 10:38:34 pm
The answer to "how serious" appears to be "you really don't want this!". The facts, from the SAC summary sheet they sent me:
If a sheep has it, they have a 10-20% chance of mortality, and will exhibit one or more of:
So whilst it's not catastrophic, it's not exactly pleasant either, and you really don't want it!!  As a result, I'm not surprised that certified tups etc sell for more. If you run a semi-closed commercial flock and only buy in males, it would make abundant sense to avoid buying in MV and similar diseases.


For us, it's really a question of how much we want to enter shows and sales, and whether not being accredited might stop us from being able to sell breeding stock to others who are accredited or could become so by only buying in accredited stock to begin with. I'm going to speak to other Z people about this, but at the moment my gut feel is we should jump that bridge when we come to it, and we're not there yet!
Title: Re: Obtaining MV Accreditation
Post by: Buttermilk on June 24, 2016, 08:23:24 am
As my initial stock came from accredited flocks it seemed silly to let it lapse.  As I also intend selling rams through the breed sales MV acc is a must and as I dont show the only way to let my flock get known is by selling at the breed sales.  Otherwise I am just another hobby breeder with unknown stock.
Title: Re: Obtaining MV Accreditation
Post by: Marches Farmer on June 24, 2016, 10:03:03 am
The answer to "how serious" appears to be "you really don't want this!". The facts, from the SAC summary sheet they sent me:
    If a sheep has it, they have a 10-20% chance of mortality, and will exhibit one or more of:
    • Wasting
    • Pneumonia
    • progressive paralysis
    • Arthritis
    • Chronic mastitis

    If you've run a virtually closed flock for a number of years, kept careful notes on each animal and not seen any of the above I guess you could be reasonably sure it wasn't in your flock.  To me, the prices appear to dissuade flock-keepers generally from testing for the disease, in much the same way that the cost of FEC counts or the kit to do it yourself does for wormer-resistance.  If these were cheaper a lot more of us would do it and that could really make a difference to the national flock.
    Title: Re: Obtaining MV Accreditation
    Post by: Womble on August 26, 2016, 07:47:57 am
    Just reporting back: We had to call our vet out for something else, so I thought what the hell and got them to take the first blood tests while they were here. The vet charged £21+VAT + callout fee. The invoice has also just arrived from SAC, and they charged £25+VAT for the analysis. That's for 9 adult sheep tested (all clear :thumbsup: ). I don't know how much the annual fee is going to be yet.

    Just for info, it looks as though my figures above were thankfully a little bit high. HTH!
    Title: Re: Obtaining MV Accreditation
    Post by: Womble on April 05, 2018, 04:08:43 pm
    Since we've held accredited status for a year now, this seems a good opportunity to report back.

    What I would say is that I don't think this scheme has been of any benefit to us SO FAR, in that whilst we've sold breeding stock, they have all gone to NON-MV homes. However, being accredited does mean we can enter stock into the Zwartbles society sales, be in the same pens as the other flocks at shows, borrow tups, etc etc.

    The disadvantage is that we couldn't have shown sheep at all in 2016, since they were neither one thing nor the other!

    One good thing to report is that the costs were substantially less than I had anticipated. So, if anybody is reading this post and trying to decide whether to take the plunge, these are more reliable figures to work with:

    (https://anoutdoorlife.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/mv-costs.jpg)

    HTH!  :thumbsup:
    Title: Re: Obtaining MV Accreditation
    Post by: Me on April 05, 2018, 04:33:37 pm
    I doubt belonging to the scheme will be a money creating exercise
    Title: Re: Obtaining MV Accreditation
    Post by: Buttermilk on April 05, 2018, 07:49:58 pm
    As all my stock was bought in from accredited flocks I only needed one test at the start and not the second one Womble had and I was accredited from then on.

    I have sold mostly to non MV flocks but two buyers wanted MV accredited stock so I would have lost those sales without it.
    Title: Re: Obtaining MV Accreditation
    Post by: Tim W on April 06, 2018, 07:17:48 am

    And there is plenty of MV about ---i bought a ram from a society sale last year which went into the standard quarantine procedure including testing for MV/CLA etc and came back positive for MV ----expensive cull animal! 
    Title: Re: Obtaining MV Accreditation
    Post by: Womble on April 06, 2018, 09:46:46 am
    Folks, I'm not saying that anybody should or shouldn't be accredited. It's just that when we were trying to decide, it was really hard to find out how much it was going to cost.

    One lucky thing for us is that our land doesn't border any other sheep fields (there are rivers and roads in between), so at least we didn't need to also double fence anything. However, if you aren't as lucky as us.....  :o
    Title: Re: Obtaining MV Accreditation
    Post by: kanisha on April 06, 2018, 11:35:30 am
    What is the likelihood of transmission of  MV whilst animals are at  a  show say if they were in adjacent pens?   
    Title: Re: Obtaining MV Accreditation
    Post by: pharnorth on April 06, 2018, 03:09:21 pm
    MV and non MV stock are kept separate at shows. Minimum 3m. But usually in separate Marquees and with separate show areas.
    Title: Re: Obtaining MV Accreditation
    Post by: Womble on April 06, 2018, 03:30:06 pm
    ..... and with the judges cleaning their hands using one of the regulation baby wipes when moving between the accredited and non-accredited areas!  ;D

    None of that answers how easy it is to transmit / catch though?
    Title: Re: Obtaining MV Accreditation
    Post by: Me on April 06, 2018, 03:36:27 pm
    My understanding is it is not that easy, and more prevelant in systems which mean animals are in close proximity, eg. lamb inside etc
    Title: Re: Obtaining MV Accreditation
    Post by: kanisha on April 06, 2018, 03:54:56 pm
    Thankyou :-) . I favour more Tim's idea of health screening and wondered what risks there were if you then exhibited at an event. As mine would also be non accredited.


    Currently considering if moving them for a weekend into a more active area for blue tongue virus is worth the risk ..........
    Title: Re: Obtaining MV Accreditation
    Post by: pharnorth on April 06, 2018, 05:02:51 pm
    It is a good question [member=81]kanisha[/member] because the segregation helps protect the accredited sheep, but the non accredited sheep that don't have the virus have no protection against those that may do in adjacent pens.  It is all a risk assessment really and what you are comfortable with.
    Title: Re: Obtaining MV Accreditation
    Post by: kanisha on April 06, 2018, 05:26:03 pm
    Tbh pharnorth. I felt the level of risk given the way the disease is said to be transmitted to be quite low.  I was interested to know if others viewed it the same.
    Title: Re: Obtaining MV Accreditation
    Post by: pharnorth on April 07, 2018, 05:54:56 pm
    Tbh pharnorth. I felt the level of risk given the way the disease is said to be transmitted to be quite low.  I was interested to know if others viewed it the same.

    Well I guess everyone who shows non accredited sheep agrees with you- and that includes me.
    Title: Re: Obtaining MV Accreditation
    Post by: Marches Farmer on April 07, 2018, 06:27:03 pm
    On another tack, our vet told me that SBV is now considered endemic in the UK.  Last year's batch of vaccine failed but it should be available this year.  He said it had been seen in a small number of early calves this year.
    Title: Re: Obtaining MV Accreditation
    Post by: Womble on April 07, 2018, 07:26:24 pm
    I favour more Tim's idea of health screening

    Well if you just wanted to check that you're clear, I guess you could always send a few tubes away for analysis (the rough costs would be as per my table above).

    the segregation helps protect the accredited sheep

    And quite right too!  Don't want my posh high-health-status pedigree girls mixing with just any old riff-raff now, do we!?  ;D
    Title: Re: Obtaining MV Accreditation
    Post by: kanisha on April 08, 2018, 07:25:57 am
    Part of my concern with mv accreditation is if there are other diseases with similar slow development that could also potentially be an issue. I wonder if (thinking of Tims expensive cull ) if screening incomming stock with a refund of purchase price if animals are found to be positive would encourage more health screening in non accredited flocks.
    Title: Re: Obtaining MV Accreditation
    Post by: Tim W on April 08, 2018, 10:27:39 am
    Part of my concern with mv accreditation is if there are other diseases with similar slow development that could also potentially be an issue. I wonder if (thinking of Tims expensive cull ) if screening incomming stock with a refund of purchase price if animals are found to be positive would encourage more health screening in non accredited flocks.

    I generally buy incoming stock directly off farm & usually ask to take blood samples before buying ---most people are happy with this and it makes sense all round ----there are people that have not allowed me to do this , which means they forfeit a sale
    I have in the past tested rams that i have bought in and subsequently found them to have CLA ----the vendors have been in denial about this despite the evidence  ???
    Screening is simple and cheap ---when added to the cost of a £600 ram is insignificant