The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Smallholding => Equipment => Topic started by: Foobar on June 01, 2016, 03:48:39 pm
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Ok so I have a new smallholding, 15 acres, half pasture, half woodland. Three big steep slopes, lots of mud, lots of rocks. I need a vehicle that I can use to carry kit around, hay, tools, feed, buckets, fencing, logs etc, and also to tow a flailmower or trailer etc sometimes. Not on a daily basis though, weekends or say 3 times a week in winter for hay. I don't think a quad bike is an option - not enough load carrying and no roll cage. So I was thinking a UTV like a John Deere Gator or the like, but looking at the price of them (second hand), I'm not sure whether I'd be better off getting an old SWB landrover.
Also, just to complicate matters, my current car is a Subaru Forester but it's getting long in the tooth. It's not robust enough to go up on the fields in the state they are in and the slopes are too much for it with any load. I use it to commute to work though, and will need to replace it at some point for that purpose. I also need a vehicle that can tow my trailer to the abattoir etc. A wee small car for commuting would be more affordable (in fuel), and another rough vehicle I could use on the land AND on the road with the trailer when needed seems like the best way to spend what little money I have (although two road taxes unless the cheap car is a tax-free one).
Also I currently don't have anywhere to store a quad or utv, so for security purposes a landy would be less likely to be nicked.
However, the thought of driving a full size vehicle up my field slopes scares the bejesus out of me! :(
Thoughts anyone?
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i have a mini for work and a ford ranger pick up for the farm/snow. love them both.
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well, Landy's are the most nicked vehicle at the moment, so not sure your security argument stands up.... plus, they're silly silly prices at the moment - and probably will be until next summer.
Any landy you get for under £4k is likely to be a total rot box.
I've nearly finished doing a nut & bolt rebuild on mine.... new galv chassis, etc.... they're half hobby, half transport really.
in terms of mowing vs commuting, why not get an old tractor and then a cheap little car? quads and gators etc always seem a bit of an odd choice on smaller areas of land.
If you want a "secret great buy" option, then the 2 things I'd be looking at would be: cheap - a v8 disco 1 - or more expensive - a 2002/2003/2004 year range rover td6 (L322). The latter can be had for less than a half decent old defender.
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in terms of mowing vs commuting, why not get an old tractor and then a cheap little car? quads and gators etc always seem a bit of an odd choice on smaller areas of land.
I don't need a tractor, I don't need to mow or plough, seed, hedge cut or anything like that, I just need to trim some brambles/bracken/rushes sometimes until they are under control. I need something small that can carry stuff. Don't really want something heavy either as I don't want to make my mud problems any worse than they are already :).
I thought about a pickup, as just having that as the only vehicle, but again, big heavy, I think I need something more nimble on the land.
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in terms of mowing vs commuting, why not get an old tractor and then a cheap little car? quads and gators etc always seem a bit of an odd choice on smaller areas of land.
I don't need a tractor, I don't need to mow or plough, seed, hedge cut or anything like that, I just need to trim some brambles/bracken/rushes sometimes until they are under control. I need something small that can carry stuff. Don't really want something heavy either as I don't want to make my mud problems any worse than they are already :) .
I thought about a pickup, as just having that as the only vehicle, but again, big heavy, I think I need something more nimble on the land.
then what you need sir, is... a mk1 fiat panda 4x4!!!
sadly also stupid money these days because everyone and their dog thinks that they're classic car speculators....
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then Suzuki jimny with the appropriate tyres (way cheaper than an atv)
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then Suzuki jimny with the appropriate tyres
Yeah that could work. Or even a mk1 3 door rav 4. They're cheap as chips now.
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Does a rav 4 have low range ?
Vauxhall frontera is another cheap as chips with low range. I believe the 2.2 dti has a chain rather than cam belt so that's one less thing to worry about. Vauxhall will have good on road towing weight too. Downside will be heavier on the land.....but you don't want to be on it when it's too wet.
Just budget to put mud terrain tyres on whatever you get. That is what makes any 4x4 perform.
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I'm afraid I'm a total Landy Lass. You can see my 80" 1951 LR on our website being used around the place in all sorts of roles. We have a slightly newer LWB series 3 as well. The interesting one though is the 80" which we bought from NZ and shipped halfway around the world. Doing that, it was still way cheaper than the ridiculous prices you can pay for one today, as more and more folk realise how very useful they are. Also, they don't use salt on the road down there so there was only minimal corrosion. I love it. I love my Scoobie too, but we don't use it to work, just mostly on the road for longer trips (it has heated seats :love:)
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I've always loved landys and have owned loads, but in today's world the old ones are outrageously expensive, all of them are noisy slow uneconomical, and break down all the time.
Having had a few years off them I had almost put the case together for buying a nice discovery 3, when my mates stopped starting....an 06 model. It was diagnosed as a heater plug. Anyone in the know would say new heater plugs no problem, 10 or 15 quid each and half an hour to fit...in most cars. Not a 9 year old discovery 3 though...
The plugs are deeply resessed in the cylinder head, and seize. They then snap off. You have to take the cylinder head off to drill them out, but the engine is set back in the engine bay and is tight under the bulk head. Hence there is not enough clearance to get the head off. So the vehicle body has to come off.
Approx. £1800 quid later (at mates rates)....
1 hour later....just been looking at your series 1 on your web site fleece wife.....I'm getting the bug again...you realise there is no real cure.......like you baler too..I have one the same.
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It sounds like you need a pony with optional cart or panniers.
I loved my landy but it now sits doing nothing due to a siezed engine and lack of time to give it a heart transplant, instead I run a shogun.
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I, too love my Landrover and though she is only a middle aged lady (04 reg) she does need a lot of maintenance which I can't do myself so expensive garage bills! My mechanic has threatened to remove the sterio so that when I hear a "funny" noise I can't just shut the window and turn up the music!! I would hate to be without her.
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We have a landy. Used to love it, but now TBH it's just a car (almost :innocent: ), and I'm acutely aware that there are cheaper and possibly better alternatives. I think I'd love it more if I'd spent more on it to begin with, but as it was I bought cheap (all I could afford) and then had what felt like death by a thousand cuts to bring it up to scratch.
My mechanic has threatened to remove the sterio so that when I hear a "funny" noise I can't just shut the window and turn up the music!!
Damn. That's why I INSTALLED a stereo in ours! ;D
I was out mountain biking in the winter and watched a lady feeding her horses from the back of a Panda 4x4. It didn't have much ground clearance, but it dealt with a steep slippery grass / mud bank incredibly well. I also have a friend who drives a Jimny and can go just about anywhere in it.
If I were in your shoes though, I'd get a second hand UTV for the fields, plus a 4wd estate car for getting to work and back, visits to the farm store for feed and for towing the trailer. With some thought to tyres it would be capable of going onto flat bits of your land for loading the trailer etc, and for everything else there's the UTV.
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I would like a vehicle for the farm, I don't like Baz s 90 s for the job so I would like to get hold of a a Fourtrak.
Prooer little workhorse.
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I don't think I could have anything too heavy as I will need to get on the land when it's wet ... just because it's wet land at the mo because the drainage has been neglected. (I had tadpoles in one of my fields when I moved in!) Something small like a Jimny would be fine but that can't tow what I need with that (700+ unbraked). Fourtrak would be better but trying to find decent one might be tricky now.
The advantage with the UTV would be that it can get in and around the wooded bits where a bigger vehicle will struggle, just because of the trees etc. I think I'm erring towards Womble's suggestion ....
I've always wanted a landy, but have been put off by the horror stories about the upkeep. It is something I could do myself, but I don't have the time or inclination alas.
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If you have to get through tight gaps or around trees, the UTV would definitely be easier, and would damage the land far less.
Something small like a Jimny would be fine but that can't tow what I need with that (700+ unbraked).
700+ unbraked across your fields, or on the road? (remember the max all up road weight for an unbraked trailer is 750kg regardless of the towing vehicle).
How do you like the Forester? Perhaps you could get the UTV plus another one of them in due course (or an Outback / Legacy).
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700+ unbraked across your fields, or on the road? (remember the max all up road weight for an unbraked trailer is 750kg regardless of the towing vehicle).
On the road only.
How do you like the Forester? Perhaps you could get the UTV plus another one of them in due course (or an Outback / Legacy).
I love it. Best car I've ever had. '53 plate, 150,000 miles. Don't like the newer models though as they have reduced the boot space. I have (luckily) found a subaru specialist who says he can keep it going for how ever long I want ...
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Sounds like you need a native pony. Does hills, rough bits, tight turns, goes over wet land without damaging it, can tote a surprising amount of weight or drag it. Lives on rough grazing and will be your pal. :horse:
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Sounds nice but don't have the time to tack up a pony etc. I'm very time poor!
How would you strap a hay bale to a pony anyway?
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Sounds nice but don't have the time to tack up a pony etc. I'm very time poor!
How would you strap a hay bale to a pony anyway?
Easily.
Ponies still sell for a few quid in certain areas of the country. Sounds like a cheap option to me...
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Nah ... walk up to field to catch pony ... walk back to house to tack and load up pony ... walk back up to field to put out hay ... nope. Each of those is a 10min+ walk (up a big hill!). When I say I am time poor, I really am very very time poor, every minute counts with me :).
I could perhaps ditch the sheep and just keep ponies and never have to feed anything .... but that's how my land got ruined in the first place! :)
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If I were in your shoes though, I'd get a second hand UTV for the fields, plus a 4wd estate car for getting to work and back, visits to the farm store for feed and for towing the trailer. With some thought to tyres it would be capable of going onto flat bits of your land for loading the trailer etc, and for everything else there's the UTV.
I like this too, but would still consider the jimny for field use only over a utv. A quick look on ebay tells me I cant buy a UTV for less than 4k, where as I can get any number of jimnys for less then 2k. If budget is an issue, which im sure you said it was.
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Nah ... walk up to field to catch pony ... walk back to house to tack and load up pony ... walk back up to field to put out hay ... nope. Each of those is a 10min+ walk (up a big hill!). When I say I am time poor, I really am very very time poor, every minute counts with me :) .
I could perhaps ditch the sheep and just keep ponies and never have to feed anything .... but that's how my land got ruined in the first place! :)
My mistake, I read the previous post as "very very poor" rather than "very time poor". My mistake.
What puts me off the whole quad/utv thing is that as smallholders, most of us have aspired to a more self-sufficient life with a closer connection to nature and the natural world.... then what do we do? We want to play farmer and get a quad bike (I'm not saying that you're playing farmer, it's just a construct)...
If we really wanted this closer connection, and to produce ethical food, be nice to the planet, etc etc, then shouldn't we just walk!? Don't have enough time? Go to bed earlier and get up earlier...
Of course there can be health / time constraints, but putting the environmental improvements on hold whilst we go off and earn a living is the wrong way around for me.
I'm not by any stretch saying it's easy, but I just think sometimes we need to step back and re-acqauint ourselves with what we're trying to achieve and why.
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Oh yes, I'm totally with you there, but for now I have to work full time, and in order to maximise the time I have to enjoy the outdoors I need to get from A to B quicker and I need something to get heavy stuff up the big hill.
Whatever vehicle I get it will be an enabler, it will enable me to do more, get further etc etc.
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^ Great post Farmershort! It's a difficult balance to strike though.
Generations ago, our 'farm' was the main one for the area (much more land in those days), and supported five large families. Now, the same fields only provide a wage for 1.5 people. So, whilst it might be "wrong to put the environmental improvements on hold whilst I go off and earn a living", equally if I put earning a living on hold whilst I worked the land, I'd be getting angry calls from The Woolwich pretty quickly!
So I recognize time poor, and wishing I had a faster tool than a push lawnmower for topping my 5 acres is more practicality than wannabe farmer. My new frame of mind is that we keep the sheep; they don't keep us. That means that if compromises have to be made in how naturally we farm that's the way it has to be (for example we may sponge the ewes next year for a tighter lambing). In the long run we hope to be able to 'downshift' and spend longer on the smallholding, but if in the meantime a UTV made practical sense, I wouldn't think twice about buying one.
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Put the feeder at the bottom of the field and let the sheep walk down the hill ?! (I realise the layout probably dosent allow for that)
Or build a shed/ put a container in the top field so the hay is already there ready for winter ?
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I realise it's some time since this post, but thought I'd add my bit -
We ended up with a Gator, i love it on the land, got the big tyres, nice dry cab, (but no heater), road legal, but no RFL as it's agricultural, great for throwing stuff in the back, but too high for dog to jump in. Hate the doors, the way they open, wondering if I could take drivers door off for summer, takes some getting used to going to right door, (LH drive).
Slow on road, 23mph max, apparently there is a delimiter that can be taken off/sdjusted?
No gears and braking system takes a bit of getting used to, going downhill you have to have confidence in low acceleration to act as brake. Rear towbar is a bit annoying being under the back, short bar on little trailer so I can't use it.
Over winter I have been going and collecting haylage bales, probably on limit of weight, but 2 of us could tip back to roll bale out.
Landy was a dream, dad had series 2 and I loved it, but not into the maintenence.
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As it happens I found a nice Kubota RTV900, which should be arriving this week. 5 years old but ex-council (used at the cemeteries so hasn't had a hard life at all!!), very good condition, full cab and heater, road legal. I am looking forward to reporting back :D
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I have (luckily) found a subaru specialist who says he can keep it going for how ever long I want ...
Hi there
Do you mind if I ask who and where the Subaru specialist is? I have an oldish Legacy and we're hopefully moving to South Wales in the near future...
As for your original question I'd recommend a Jimny! But I see you've got something already... 8)
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Sure thing - David Coe Garage Services, Gorseinon, Swansea. :) A quick google will find you their phone/address etc. Very nice chap, very reasonable prices and very knowledgeable about Subarus.
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Any vehicle can be registered as agricultural (within reason) - all it needs is plates to be on the road. Buy any plated vehicle, register it as agri, you can travel on the road with free tax and no MOT and cheap agri insurance. Yes their are limits to mileage, but people need vehicles to travel and use on farm. Multi use.
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I'd buy a landy - but then I would - but to be honest on steep fields and with wet, I couldnt do without my quad. There is one thing going out with the boys in the landies and following track, but for crossing grass thats wet on step slopes - could never do without my quad.