The Accidental Smallholder Forum

Pets & Working Animals => Dogs => Topic started by: Greenerlife on May 05, 2010, 10:27:20 am

Title: Alsatian bites little piggies!
Post by: Greenerlife on May 05, 2010, 10:27:20 am
Copied this across from the pig forum - anybody any experience?

Really upset as my four newly arrived Berkshire weaners got attacked yesterday afternoon by my next door neighbour's Alsatian dog.  He's managed to bite 3 out of the 4 and one of them has lots and lots of tears in the skin over his "shoulders" and one has his tag torn.  Have applied antisceptic and informed the vet, who has given advice and I just have to keep an eye on any infection - but what would you people do about the neighbour and her dog?  She is very apologetic and almost as distraught as me - the dog is usually docile.  Anybody out there with any experience?
Title: Re: Alsatian bites little piggies!
Post by: Roxy on May 05, 2010, 10:49:48 am
Thats an awful thing to happen.  The dog must have jumped into the pigs enclosure?  I have a large male GSD, and he is never, ever, allowed anywhere unattended, or even off the lead where there are other people, or any animals, even our own who is he used to.  To be honest, that would apply to any of our dogs.

Hopefully the poor little pigs will recover from their dreadful ordeal.  I would think this has been a wake up call for the dog owner, but really the pig owner needs to stress, that she must keep the dog under control and well away from any livestock, as its obvious it will attack.  I hope the dog owner has the decency to offer to pay for any vet treatment, etc.
Title: Re: Alsatian bites little piggies!
Post by: doganjo on May 05, 2010, 11:05:37 am
Thats an awful thing to happen.  The dog must have jumped into the pigs enclosure?  I have a large male GSD, and he is never, ever, allowed anywhere unattended, or even off the lead where there are other people, or any animals, even our own who is he used to.  To be honest, that would apply to any of our dogs.

Hopefully the poor little pigs will recover from their dreadful ordeal.  I would think this has been a wake up call for the dog owner, but really the pig owner needs to stress, that she must keep the dog under control and well away from any livestock, as its obvious it will attack.  I hope the dog owner has the decency to offer to pay for any vet treatment, etc.
Exactly my thoughts too..  The dog will ALWAYS attack livestock now he/she has had a taste of it.
Title: Re: Alsatian bites little piggies!
Post by: HappyHippy on May 05, 2010, 01:28:57 pm
Ooooo I'm going to be contraversial and disagree (sorry  ;) ;D)
I've posted a response on the other thread already.
But my gut feeling is if the dog is normally docile and the neighbour is a reasonable person there's no need to go in all guns blazing straight away (after all you've got to live next to each other)
Accidents happen sometimes, my feeling is that this dog went for a look, got a fright from the electric fence and freaked out - has it ever even seen a piglet before ? I don't think it means it's neccesarilly going to turn into a blood crazed pig killing machine  ???
Title: Re: Alsatian bites little piggies!
Post by: Hardfeather on May 05, 2010, 02:06:58 pm
Maybe the dog has had as much of a fright as everyone else. It might never look near the pigs again.
Title: Re: Alsatian bites little piggies!
Post by: tjtrike on May 05, 2010, 04:53:03 pm
I have many years experience both as a dog owner and also working with many breeds of dogs and I also think that something set this off and the dog is unlikely to become a problem with all livestock but I would politely ask your neighbour to keep the dog under a more watchful eye.Hope the piglets are ok soon.
Title: Re: Alsatian bites little piggies!
Post by: sabrina on May 05, 2010, 06:48:50 pm
As your neighbour now knows that her dog did attack your pigs, its up to her to make sure nothing like this happens again. It might be worth asking around to see if this dog has done anything like this before and take it from there.
Title: Re: Alsatian bites little piggies!
Post by: charlie on May 05, 2010, 10:37:49 pm
If the dog gets another chance it will do it again. Its highly likely it was nothing to do with getting scared by the electric fence,  its the dogs nature and you will never get it out of the dog. I had a white g s d which was a sheep worrier and sadly had to get rid of it after trying every technique I could, even with professional help .
Title: Re: Alsatian bites little piggies!
Post by: doganjo on May 05, 2010, 10:53:50 pm
If the dog gets another chance it will do it again. Its highly likely it was nothing to do with getting scared by the electric fence,  its the dogs nature and you will never get it out of the dog. I had a white g s d which was a sheep worrier and sadly had to get rid of it after trying every technique I could, even with professional help .
This is why the E-collar should NOT be banned - it works.  I have seen it working - a gundog which chased deer every time it went hunting with its owner.  A fortnight with no correction at all (a dummy collar) then one zap and it never chased again.  But they HAVE to be used by people who know what they are doing. But that is another topic altogether.
Title: Re: Alsatian bites little piggies!
Post by: charlie on May 05, 2010, 11:17:46 pm
E collars do work sometimes .But once the collar is off the dog they can go back to there old ways been there seen it . For most dogs they do work.
Title: Re: Alsatian bites little piggies!
Post by: kingnigel on May 06, 2010, 02:31:15 pm
This is why the E-collar should NOT be banned

such crap
they should be banned
if you need one try wearing one
punishment is no way to train a dog.
kn
Title: Re: Alsatian bites little piggies!
Post by: doganjo on May 06, 2010, 06:33:30 pm
This is why the E-collar should NOT be banned

such crap
they should be banned
if you need one try wearing one
punishment is no way to train a dog.
kn
I have, have you?
Title: Re: Alsatian bites little piggies!
Post by: mab on May 07, 2010, 12:46:29 am
I think the collars could be used by 'professionals' rather than being allowed to the general public who may, in a few cases, see it as an easy alternative to training their dog, and use it excessively.

On the original subject; As the neighbour seems to genuinely regret the incident I think it's worth giving her a chance, though I would expect her to offer to pay the vet bills.

If the dog's trained and the owner can control it, then there's no reason it can't be taught to leave the piglets alone. The notion that 'once a dog's tasted the blood of something it can never be trusted' is pure nonsense.

mab
Title: Re: Alsatian bites little piggies!
Post by: kingnigel on May 07, 2010, 03:52:21 am
http://www.rspca.org.uk/ImageLocator/LocateAsset?asset=document&assetId=1232713013325&mode=prd

no, i havnt worn one nor was i in a concentration camp but i know they were not nice places.
these things can and are abused by lazy trainers with as yet no evidence that they are any better than positive reinforcement training.
unfortunately they are also abused by those who take their anger and frustration out on innocent pets.
kn
Title: Re: Alsatian bites little piggies!
Post by: doganjo on May 07, 2010, 09:32:24 am
http://www.rspca.org.uk/ImageLocator/LocateAsset?asset=document&assetId=1232713013325&mode=prd

no, i havnt worn one nor was i in a concentration camp but i know they were not nice places.
these things can and are abused by lazy trainers with as yet no evidence that they are any better than positive reinforcement training.
unfortunately they are also abused by those who take their anger and frustration out on innocent pets.
kn
I agree with that, but I suggest you try one on your arm before condemning them outright.  One of my dogs was a sheep chaser -  this was quite a long time ago.  A friend took him to retrain, who had trained dogs withva collar, my dog wore a dummy collar every day for a month, still chasing sheep if he could, then Si gave him one zap on a low setting, he didn't even yelp, just sat down on the whistle, and never looked near another sheep.
Title: Re: Alsatian bites little piggies!
Post by: Sylvia on May 07, 2010, 12:37:44 pm
Any training aid can be used or ab-used. I know of two dogs whose lives were saved by the use of electric collars.I fully agree that the best way of training a dog is with kindness and reward, after all how does a dog know what you want of him unless he is told, calmly and gently. But unless you can be absolutely certain that your dog will come to heel or sit on an unexpected flock of sheep or a deer then a collar will teach him that these animals BITE! and hard! Especially useful if you have running dogs.
A greyhound bitch I have when out as a pup saw her first herd of cows, turned to look at them and touched the electric fence with her tail. I've never had to call her to heel when we meet cows,she sticks close by my side.
As for the poor old pigs, hopefully the owner of the G. S. has learned just what the dog is capable of and will keep a stricter eye on it. And I do think they should pay any vet.bills if only to reinforce the lesson. I hope piggies are recovering.
Title: Re: Alsatian bites little piggies!
Post by: lunanlife on May 07, 2010, 05:07:11 pm
Do you personally know that the dog is normally docile? If it is then I agree with most and that if the dog has a responsible owner and is fairly well trained then the likelihood is that something triggered a reaction. I have both Berkshires and a GSD and my dog is constantly being bitten by the pigs. However it is my dog and pigs. Your neigbours dog should not have free unsupervised access to your property unless you have authorised it. If you get on with your neighbour and you like the dog then I would give it another chance and try and introduce them gradually. I would wait a good while though because the pigs will still be very stressed.
Title: Re: Alsatian bites little piggies!
Post by: kingnigel on May 07, 2010, 05:15:59 pm
hi
i think we will have to agree to disagree.
training dogs in my opinion does not ever include punishment.
no more to say so from me it is back to the original thread
kn
Title: Re: Alsatian bites little piggies!
Post by: Hilarysmum on May 09, 2010, 11:25:38 am
It appears that the alsation has done it again ...

"Sadly it has just happened again!    Heard the dog - saw it from the window barking at my pigs from inside the electric fence.

Pigs are too scared to come out of their arc - so I have left them to it for the moment - will check in an hour or so to see if there is any damage.  Stuck my head in the arc and they look undamaged - so fingers crossed!"

Title: Re: Alsatian bites little piggies!
Post by: Dais on May 21, 2010, 06:24:19 pm
So sorry to hear about the pigs being attacked.  Just have to reply and say (although i know it is totally unrelated) that this kind of attack on live stock is so uncharachteristic of this breed (but that is only my opinion based on owning one for the last 12 wonderful years.
Title: Re: Alsatian bites little piggies!
Post by: warmglo on June 14, 2010, 02:50:49 pm
The dog has obviously found himself a new sport! Not a nice surprise when you just want your new piggies to settle in and be happy...  It's up to her of course to train the dog, perhaps with professional help, but in the meantime, that might not be the only dog in the area looking for some sport, so some modifications may be necessary. As your neighbour is feeling bad about it too, perhaps they would like to contribute to a more dog proof boundry or pen?