The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: LadyEarth on April 18, 2016, 11:24:59 am
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We found our neighbours new dog worrying a 6 day old lamb yesterday. Got the lamb but unable to save it. Neighbours are mortified. The dog is a pup which got out of the garden. They have promised to keep it under control and have offered compensation for the dead lamb.
What is a fair price to ask?
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Oh dear how awful for you and the lamb. In answer to your question I would be asking for the payment in full of any vets bill. You also need to consider that if the lamb was a female and you were going to breed from her the lost value of future offspring. If the lamb was for the freezer then you have to value what it will cost you to buy the meat at a butcher. Its not easy to put a price on it but your costs should certainly be covered. I hope this helps a little :-)
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it's a balance between how neighbourly you want to be and you not loosing out they initially seem to have taken a very responsible attitude but i would be more concerned what steps are they going to take to stop it occuring again (dog proof fencing etc)- a child leaves a door open - another dead sheep- it is now officially a killer and thats pretty much impossible to remove from an animal?
- In terms of compensation definately the value of the lamb whether that be as a breeding ewe/tup or meat. Whether you take a lost future earnings i guess depends on how you values your relationship with your neighbour. If you choose the former then add a little extra for the stress and hassle and also time if you need to replace
sorry for your situation
good luck
BL
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This is always a sad affair for both parties involved.Unfortunately once a dog has done this it is very difficult to stop it doing it again. (they get a taste for it, so to speak) What breed of dog was it?
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£20 for the lamb and insist that they fix their fences and also take the pup to a proper dog trainer who can desensitise it to livestock. Or ask for more money and hope it doesn't happen again.
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£20 is fair I think, to cover the cost of disposal and loss of the animal thats if it was being bred for the table + any vets fees.
Not saying that them being upset is a good thing - but in the sense that they have taken responsibility and show remorse - them being upset is a good sign that they will go out their way to stop it happening again.
You could always ask them for a fish and chip take away or a bottle of wine, be friends and work together to stop it happening again.
Sorry to hears about it.
Barry
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Speaking as a farmer, I don't think £20 is anywhere near enough. We'd charge £25 for a young lamb as a set-on, but that'd be a lamb whose mother is still rearing a lamb, or two, and who is surplus to our requirements.
If the ewe had a single, you've lost a year's production from her, with the possibility that she now gets mastitis, needing treatment, and then has to be sold as a cull.
If she has twins, so is still rearing one, then you've lost the income from the second lamb. Costs of rearing the second twin on its mother aren't high, so I'd be thinking around £50, at least, plus disposal costs.
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I second £50, at lest with that you could get a Cade to put on her. Plus advise they get the pup to proper training sessions and double check their fencing.
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jjeeez you lot are generous!
I'd be asking full boxed-lamb price... £120 way back in 2008 when I last sold a boxed lamb.
but having said that, with my zen hat on, I like the idea of £20 to cover disposal, plus take your dog to a proper de-sheep-worrying class.
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^^^^^^ agree 100%
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£20 wouldn't cover a fish supper for you.
charge them the final selling price. that way they will respect what is lost more. plus compensation.
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Twenty quid is pocket money for most people, and I doubt it would cover vet bills, time, stress etc. Fifty quid plus a solid dog-training plan sounds more than fair to me. A bad neighbour or repeat offender deserves the full boxed lamb price.
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Surely you have to ask for a fair price to cover value and loss at this stage and SallyintNorth seems to have to be reasonable in her analysis. [size=78%]Charging what you might have got for something is a bit pie in the sky. You would have to deduct your possible costs for getting it to that to be fair anyway. Who knows what you might get down the line?[/size]
I would also need to know they can keep their puppy in. Falling out with neighbours is not a good thing and maybe you have a good idea of their skills as a dog owner but I would make it quite clear if it happened again you would insist the dog was destroyed. They have to take responsibility for the situation.
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I am with the £120 folks. TbT is what you were raising it for, and they also need to realise the costIimplications. As for dog training that is a separate issue for them to consider
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£120 for a six week old lamb - come on!
How can you charge that? If it was ready for slaughter tomorrow then fair enough!
If it is a pedigree breed and a tup you could say I might have sold it for £X amount at the breeds sales but you might not as well!
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I would say fat lamb price, £60 is reasonable, that is what you would get at mart depending where you live. I am surprised they offered compensation, they sound like nice folks to me, shame that none of my neighbours are like that. I have a feeling that this will be a one off, I dont think it will happen again by the sound of them. I am so sorry that you lost the lamb though, as a living lamb is better than merely a fee. :hug:
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The compensation should be the value if it had lived, not as a scraggy 5 day old. Shearling tup or gimmer price is what I would be asking.
But not taking the mick
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Cost of replacement is where the law will fall.
Future lost income is not fair or proportionate - as if the lamb was worth £60 at weaning, buy a replacement of same bread / type at weaning, and then your back where you were and can breed from that, so asking for £500 for 6 crops is not fair, as you can still get those lambs.
Its also too early to ever hypothesize whether the lamb would of made the grade as a breeder,
Simply put - they should make good the loss, and put you back to where you would be had the lamb not died - so cost of buying a replacement live animal of the same type at weaning, if she was for breeding, or market value for a fat lamb of the type when its at slaughter weight, + the Knackermans costs.
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Cost of replacement is where the law will fall.
Future lost income is not fair or proportionate - as if the lamb was worth £60 at weaning, buy a replacement of same bread / type at weaning, and then your back where you were and can breed from that, so asking for £500 for 6 crops is not fair, as you can still get those lambs.
I have a pedigree flock with detailed records of every lamb born, its' breeding, longevity, lambing, health and mothering ability. I have culled out problems without mercy over twelve years and on that basis every ewe lamb now entering the flock is, in effect, irreplaceable, and every ram lamb can be reasonably expected to become a breeding quality animal to be sold or hired out before slaughter. In a similar situation I would be looking for way, way, more than £20. If you're a member of a breed society you could ask the club secretary for his/her view. I, too, would be looking at fencing (at their cost, if appropriate), educating the dog and printing off the current law on keeping your dog under control so that they're under no illusion about having broken the law.
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Way more than £20 for sure. The animal would have earned you more than that in its lifetime, had it not been killed as a lamb, but as importantly £20 per death by dog is no deterrent. Prob cheaper than getting fence fixed
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And I'd let them know next time you'll shoot the dog. I've got signs up saying that. Makes me no friends but never see dog off lead anymore.
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A pic of a dead lamb, next to a pic of a dead dog on the gate works wonder. no words, pictures do the job. And a picture of a lead. People get the message, some rip them down, but footpath usage goes through the floor quickly.