The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Smallholding => Buildings & planning => Topic started by: valmet10 on March 22, 2016, 07:05:56 pm
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any one used the permited development, to convert an agricultural building into a dwelling
or has anyone any advice
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Read quite a few planning appeals on the subject.
Seems hit and miss affair some councils are helpful , others try to put hurdles in way.
A lot depends on what the building is constructed from and what modifications are needed
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In what way?
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With our local authority Telford & Wrekin it's quite easy to get permission...there is supposed to be some fast track process which the government has recently introduced.The barn has to satisfy certain criteria..used for agricultural pourposes etc.
Check with your local authority...you may even be able to do the forms yourself instead of paying an agent.
Good idea to do a search of your local authorities planning applications and get a feel for the process and forms required...
I've been surprised by the structures that have got it locally (there are always photos)...almost a tick box process..
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[Notification for Prior Approval for a Proposed Change of Use of Agricultural Building
to a Dwellinghouse (Class C3), and for Associated Operational Development*
Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) Order 2015
Schedule 2, Part 3, Class Q
*Development is not permitted where the proposed change of use would result in more than 3 dwellinghouses that have a cumulative
floor space of more than 450 square metres being created within an “established agricultural unit” (which means agricultural land occupied
as a unit for the purposes of agriculture on or before 20 March 2013, or for ten years before the date the proposed development will begin).
Development is not permitted where the building is a listed building, the site is or contains a scheduled monument, is located on Article
(3) land, or the site is, or forms part of a site of special scientific interest, a safety hazard area or a military explosives storag
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Our local council insists on having bat surveys done first.
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I've just been trying to get my head round country stewardship grants to help maintain a barn.(has to be 1940's or before/used for agric pourposes etc) It has swallows/owls/bats..occasionally poorly sheep/logs /tools...just a very useful space.
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I've just applied.
Having done a bit of research on the internet, the criteria is pretty straightfoward and if it applies, then permission should more or less guaranteed.
There are 2 parts to class Q.
Class Q (a) is the actual permitted development which should be granted if all the conditions are met. I.E this bit gives you general permission to turn your agricultural building into a dwelling.
Class Q (b) is the detailed plans of how you intend to do it. This is the bit the planners may object to. I.E they may turn it down on design, materials, flood risk assessment etc.
So I have initially applied for Q(a), which I'm pretty confident I'll get and I would like the assurance that I can convert the building before I go further with the architect.
A lot of people go for a and b at the same time and get turned down. But it is not the actual permitted development that is being turned down, but the details of how they intend to do it.
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Our neighbour got its on an old cattle shed. We are just deciding what we want to do as we have a lot of sheds and an old dairy. We asked an agricultural agent who helped with the neighbours planning but I was not impressed by his level of knowledge, I think I knew more than him. What sites did you use as research?
Thread from the farming forum.
http://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/nicks-permitted-devolopment.67526/page-8 (http://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/nicks-permitted-devolopment.67526/page-8)
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Our neighbour got its on an old cattle shed. We are just deciding what we want to do as we have a lot of sheds and an old dairy. We asked an agricultural agent who helped with the neighbours planning but I was not impressed by his level of knowledge, I think I knew more than him. What sites did you use as research?
Thread from the farming forum.
http://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/nicks-permitted-devolopment.67526/page-8 (http://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/nicks-permitted-devolopment.67526/page-8)
The Planning Forum is pretty self explanatory.
Also Martin Goodall's planning blog gives a lot of useful tips.
As mentioned above, I personally think you're better off going for class Q (a) to start with as that then guarantees your right to the development. You can haggle with the planners about the finer details later.
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just been doing loads of searches on Google. cant really afford an agent , my parents live in the farmhouse , I live in rented property a few miles away n traveling back and forth is killing , so want to convert an farm building into single story one bed ,don't want to alter out side of building to much other than roof lights and door . will have a look at that link
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well just search my local planning office website found 4 PD applications in the last month , so have to wait 56 days and we'll see hoe they go
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I am guessing that if you apply in 2 stages as previously suggested then u have to pay 2 seperate planning app fees...my local authority charge £400.
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Yes that's right Julie. Our local authority, East Riding Yorks, have charged us about £365, and our local architect £300 for putting in the application.
However, I initially made enquiries from a nationwide planning firm - who advertise in CLA magazine about their successes with this type of permitted development, and the chap I spoke to said they charged about £1800 just for applying for both parts together. (L. A. fees would be on top.) He also said it was very difficult to get permission to convert a modern agricultural building as the planners kept throwing back the design. The successes they had had were with the old brick buildings. It seemed fairly obvious then that this firm were pretty crap at coming up with a design acceptable to the planners, unless they were doing a standard brick conversion. Thereby enabling the LA to turn down what should be a permitted development on what is essentially a technicality.
So, as mentioned, I decided to do it in stages as in principle the planners cannot turn down your right to convert, so long as the fairly straightforward conditions apply.
I reckon that once you have an agreement in principle it is easier to get the finer details passed.
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I have an old barn which seems to tick all the boxes....but it is not very high and with only few windows.(brick built) .I know you have to stick to the original dimensions but I am wondering if height is negotiable or windows in a roof.
As my local authority seem to be so helpful (??) I might pop in and ask them for advice. Rather that than pay an agent.
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Checked out some of the conditions that my authority have imposed on successful applications..
All development must be completed within 3 years....lots of conditions to do with possible contamination of the land (This particular application was a piggery) and then of course there is the usual wild life complications..owls. bats and in my case swifts.
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I have an old barn which seems to tick all the boxes....but it is not very high and with only few windows.(brick built) .I know you have to stick to the original dimensions but I am wondering if height is negotiable or windows in a roof.
As my local authority seem to be so helpful (??) I might pop in and ask them for advice. Rather that than pay an agent.
No you have to stick to the same height, but you can alter the position of windows, so I believe windows in the roof would be ok.
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just been looking at a few applications my LA have refused , they seem to refuse if the building needs to much work to convert to a dwelling ,refused one for having window that would cause light pollution . ad because it was on an a working farm where there was noise and smells , looks like I could have fun when I apply ,think if nicks (above link ) was with my LA then it would be refused
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Best place to check is the planning portal and go through the planning appeals.
https://acp.planningportal.gov.uk/CaseSearch.aspx (https://acp.planningportal.gov.uk/CaseSearch.aspx)
Apparently a lot of councils have been dragging their feet.
Do not be afraid to go to appeal if need be, my council fed me total crap on a enforcement notice
and the planning inspector really is independent, and gives a unbiased view unlike a lot of council planning officers
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My local authority seem to be getting quite a few applications..particularly from local large estates..Are they anticipating this temporary window is going to close from next April.
My barn would be of more use to me as a granny flat.This is exempt for council tax.
My neighbour has numerous family members
Iving in converted bits of his farmhouse...but only seems to pay one lot of council tax.
Multi generational houses are getting quite popular in my village...4/5 bedroomed houses for half a million pounds plus.