The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: SueAllen on April 29, 2010, 07:11:24 am
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Now we have our first lambs (4 - all boys) and have done the naval spraying, castrating and docking I am wondering about ear tagging. I have the tags already but wonder when it is really necessary to do it? They won't be leaving our holding for quite a while so I wasn't planning on tagging them until they do. Is that what anyone else does?
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You are supposed to tag them now, I hadnt planned on tagging mine last year til they went to slaughter, but I had an animal health inspection so had to rush out and tag them all the day before! I ordered some tags yesterday apparently you cannot use last years tags on this years lambs, are they just going for slaughter or being kept over 12 months old?
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i'm in the same boat and this is our first lambs so totally new to the whole process. i thought we had to do electronic tagging - is that not the case then?
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DEFRA - "Lambs should be identified before 9 months of age or 6 months if housed overnight or before they leave the holding of birth which is sooner."
If you are planning on keeping them over a year old then they need to have electronic tags and you are right dixie you cannot use last years tags on this years sheep unless they just have your flock number on them in which case it is fine for slughter animals.
Don't forget as well that there are reserved colours now - yellow is electronic, red is replacement and black is for bolused sheep.
http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/farmanimal/movements/sheep/documents/eid-quickguide.pdf (http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/farmanimal/movements/sheep/documents/eid-quickguide.pdf)
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Whats bolused sheep?
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A bolus is something the sheep are made to swallow and which resides in their stomachs. It can be either a slow release mineral bolus or some sort of electronic ID bolus and was used by the scrapie scheme to identify those animals which had been scrapie tested.
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Up until this year, we didn't bother to tag our sheep until they went for slaughter or to the ram. Many shepherds don't. But this year we are tagging them at about 4 - 6 weeks old. Partly because you are supposed to and partly so that we can keep a check of which lamb came from which ewe so that we know who has done well, and can eliminate genetic problems etc. I certainly wouldn't tag them any younger then that, whatever the regulations are, because it is painful and I couldn't do it to a tiny lamb.
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LauraD you have a few things wrong - 1. You are not "supposed" to tag them until they are either 9 months old or are moving off the holding onto another holding.
2. Surely if you are pinching their balls and tails off with a rubber band, an earring is less painful?
I only ear tag mine when I need to - ewe lambs are done at about 3months to ensure as Laura said I know which ones come from whom, whethers destined for slaughter as done as they go making sure that I don't have to retag any animals which lose their tags etc
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We don't castrate, so I couldn't comment on that, but in my experience, there is little or no reaction to docking if you do it carefully. I would think that means that it doesn't hurt much at the time. There is always a big reaction to ear-tagging though as there is no gentle way to shove a thick peg through an ear - rather more drastic than an ear-ring - I certainly wouldn't fancy it. As regards when you have to do it - apologies if I got that wrong - it's what I've been told - but we live and learn.
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Hmmm my thoughts on this! ear tagging is like ear piercing, a sort sharp pain, all over in a sec through a piece of skin. Banding balls and tails, HURTS! although I do band balls and tails, I am not set up to keep ram lambs separate, and having both long and docked tailed ewes I think docked are much more hygeinic from keeping clean to seeing whats going on during lambing, although a controversial subjet :-\
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Last year I managed a flock of sheep for a slightly hippy lady who felt it was cruel to dock tails - that was until I called the vet on her behalf as 4 of her ewes had such chronic flystrike on their long dangly tails that I felt it was cruel to leave them untreated.
If you want to know what docking and castrating must feel like just stuck an elastic band on a finger!! I had my ears pierced when I was a young thing and don't remember it hurting, but then I am old and grey now and my memory is fading fast..... :D
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Here's my two pennies worth, I keep short tailed sheep, so no docking for me.
Male lambs go for slaughter before the meat is tainted, so no castrating either.
Afraid there is no way around ear tagging, but I think 3 months is plenty early enough.
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On the farm where I Shepherd we only tag our lambs the day before they go to slaughter, we get alot of inspections and there has never been an issue.
We also only tag gimmers with flock tags and replacement ewe lambs with there eid tags at the end of the fly season.
Also ear tagging affects the sheep alot less than castration, I've tagged alot of sheep and they don't even notice, they get more annoyed by hands touching there ear than the tag going in.
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We tag one tag only when they can lift their ears up properly - 2 or 3 months old. They get the other tag before market.
It is still easier, imho, to have numbers on their sides for mothering up purposes, rather than looking for tags and remembering (?) who's was who's (not sure I have got those apostrophies right please feel free to correct)
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Who's was whose.
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I tag before they go out in the field. One reason is they're easier to do properly when they're small. I can keep accurate pedigree and flock records. Tags don't wash off or smudge. There is a better chance of identification if they're stolen or decide to go for a wander. (won't be the first time)!!
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thanks
Only got grade 5 for English and that was many many years ago !
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I tag at four weeks before their sprayed on number gets too faded. I need to gather birth, eight and twenty one week weights for the breed programme so need to know exactly who is who and their genealogy.
I have never noticed any severe effects doing this.
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At the lambing course I did at our local agricultural college we were taught to ear tag before turning out in the field, so that's what I've been doing. I usually band the ram lambs and ear tag at the same time - about 2-3 days old. (I don't dock their tails as they are Shetlands). It's true that their ears are very small, but it honestly doesn't seem to bother them - a shake of the head occasionally but usually they don't react at all. Having recently had my own ears re-pierced I imagine it feels a bit like that, which was a strong localised pressure, not actual pain. You do have to be very careful to avoid the cartilage and imo you shouldn't do it unless you've been shown how.
Since the little rams have to be banded before they're a week old I prefer to do these operations in one go before turnout saves having to get the lambs back in after a few days - the hassle of separating the ones that need 'doing' and the stress to the mothers seems worse to me than dealing with them earlier.
I was going to ask advice about a ewe lamb who has already lost 2 tags and now has a rip in one ear, thanks to her brother who keeps chewing on it. I expect I'll get told that I shouldn't have tagged her at such a young age ... anyway, I am going to wait now until she's older and has bigger ears before I re-tag, no problem identifying her as she's the only one with no tag.
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you cannot use last years tags on this years lambs
why is this? We only had 4 lambs last year and had to buy 10 sets of tags (minimum order). Can we not use the remaining 6 sets of tags then?
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If your just talking about normal eid tags then yes just keep using them until gone then buy more , was the quote for pedigree tags that have a year letter
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you cannot use last years tags on this years lambs
why is this? We only had 4 lambs last year and had to buy 10 sets of tags (minimum order). Can we not use the remaining 6 sets of tags then?
The post you quoted was from 2010, so perhaps they were talking about non-EID - now absolutely fine to keep using your tags until they've gone.
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I do the same as Daleswoman. And would be interested in some fact based responses (rather than opinion) on the pain aspect: I understand (believe rather than know) that the basis of docking and band castration by 7 days was because there is a degree of natural anaesthetic associated with birth that reduces the pain felt in the first few days. It is for that reason, along with simplicity that I take mine at the same time then turn out. Is this correct?
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There is some information on the pain caused by docking and castration in the bottom half of this NADIS article: http://www.nadis.org.uk/bulletins/lambing/lambing-part-6-–-fostering,-docking-and-castration.aspx (http://www.nadis.org.uk/bulletins/lambing/lambing-part-6-–-fostering,-docking-and-castration.aspx)
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Trouble is it only refer to a 'wealth of evidence'. Where is the evidence?
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If your just talking about normal eid tags then yes just keep using them until gone then buy more , was the quote for pedigree tags that have a year letter
That's the problem with resurrecting an old thread I guess!
We're going to have the same problem with out of date pedigree year letters sooner or later, as the tags arrive in batches of ten, but lambs don't! My plan is to gently melt the pedigree numbers off using a soldering iron, then apply those tags to animals that don't make the grade for pedigree registration. Is there any reason why we can't do this do you think?
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More info on pain, with references, here:
http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00Man/PainRumOverviews/PainProc/P06PainPrev_Lamb_Castrate_Dock.htm (http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00Man/PainRumOverviews/PainProc/P06PainPrev_Lamb_Castrate_Dock.htm)
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Thanks PipSqueak. I've worked on human pain medication data which is hard enough to dicipher. This is even harder so it is back to 'did it look painful'. I am inclined to carry on with the ear tagging when I do the docking, generally they seem to get up and walk away quite unperturbed. I am trying to see if keeping my meat lambs uncastrated works this year.
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Just got this year's tags from Fearings (http://www.fearing.co.uk/combo-b-bubblegum-eid-visual/)
£26 to tag eleven lambs. Hey ho. The costs of small scale farming. At least I don't have to fork out for a pair of pliers this time.
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Suziequeue is that because you are buying pedigree numbered ones each year? I keep pedigree goats that manage perfectly well on the normal numbering system and pedigree sheep that insists on the flock number and year letter. Personally I find the latter a bit old fashioned and troublesome as you need new tags each year and since all the info is on grass roots seems unnecessary. Isn't it time the breed societies got a bit more pragmatic about this?
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I don't use the pedigree society tags at all as ours have a reputation for falling off so I just register the ewes and keep the tags in an envelope.
I like to use a different coloured tag in the right ear each year so I can keep track of the age of our breeding stock at a glance although I notice that this year there seem to be much fewer colour choices.
Having to buy multiples of ten means that I have had to buy twenty tags for eleven lambs. Fearings have got my numbers on record and they won't start the numbering where I left off last year as they only do numbering starting at the 0
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Fearings have got my numbers on record and they won't start the numbering where I left off last year as they only do numbering starting at the 0
Surely they've got that wrong? Else you'd have lambs each year with identical numbers? I had a couple of sheep of a different breed on an existong holding, and had to start that "flock" on number 378 or something.
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Fearings have got my numbers on record and they won't start the numbering where I left off last year as they only do numbering starting at the 0
I'm not sure I understand?
Are you saying that you used numbers 1 to 11 last year, and still have 12 to 20 in a drawer unallocated but with the wrong pedigree letter for this year's lambs? In that case Fearings are right to give you numbers 20 to 40 this year to avoid potentially having two animals tagged with the same number. That's why in my case I plan to erase the pedigree info from tags 12 to 20, and use them for the freezer boys, who won't be registered.
(Incidentally, it isn't a Fearings database, it's a national one so that you can buy tags from different suppliers without fear of duplication.)
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I don't have pedigree numbers on my Fearings tags. The sheep society issue them separately when we register the lambs. I don't put the breed society tags in - I just make sure that the stock number is married up with their breed code.
I am up to 80s and 90s this year on the Fearing tags.
Like you I only register the ewe lambs initially. The ram lambs only get an EID tag but at least they have a number so that I can record their weights and scan details.
We only normally keep two ewe lambs a year to breed on. However, this year we have only had three ewe lambs so we may just select the best one.
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Ah, so it's the colour you're trying to year match, rather than anything else? I get it now!
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Yes. So it's quick and easy at a glance to see who they are. Then I would have to catch them and check their tag number to get the exact details and then the tag number relates to their registration number which is what Signet need for the breed improvement programme.
All seems very complicated but it works for us.
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in your position, SQ, I might look into some small plain coloured tags to indicate year on the keepers, and give all the females the next EID pair, just all the same colour from year to year. Would work out a lot cheaper, I think, than throwing away SET pairs each year.
When I first went to the moorland farm, one of the BFL tups had a small metal blue tag in his ear, along with his pedigree and flock tags. Ketchum do these tags, as turkey wing tags.
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Yes - the tagging situation continues to evolve and it does bug me that I'm not using the numbers consecutively so definitely something yo think about for next year.......
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Right - well I've thought about it and it is absurd to carry on the way I've been doing.
I just need the small plain coloured tags - something like the ultra-R Management tag (http://www.fearing.co.uk/ultra-r-management) or the Ketchum track-back tags (http://www.ketchums.co.uk/tagging-solutions/track-back-tags/) with just the flock number and year on it. Or not even the year since we've got all that on the spreadsheet and the Signet database
To be honest SitN and Womble - I feel like a bit of an idiot :dunce: :dunce: ……. now that you've pointed out the bleedin' obvious.
Very grateful though :excited: :hug:
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glad to help! Let us know which management tags you choose, and how you get on with them, please.