The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: kelly58 on February 28, 2016, 08:37:08 pm
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Good to see Countryfile highlighting dogs attacking sheep. Mentioned farmers and smallholders having a sign in areas were dogs are walked advising owners that there are sheep in the area . Obviously wont deter strays or dogs that have escaped but would make owners more aware.
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Yes I think it hopefully may open the public's eyes to the fact that their usually well behaved dog may become a wolf like dog when around sheep.
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Someone was just telling me yesterday about pictures shown online of a herdwick with its face torn off, it had to be destroyed. Sickening >:(
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dog attacks...what to say..for the last 3 years my flock and my neighbors have been effected by dog attacks, in total between us and our neighbor we have had well over 20 ewes killed and countless lambs, only now they are showing what dogs do to livestock. At home we cant even use certain fields as we know we will lose lambs or ewes due to dogs, we have done everything to try and get awareness but still it has been continuing. People find it harmless to let the dogs off lead in a field but they dont see what the farmer has to deal with. There is one person who lets there dogs off to catch "rabbits" . they have all been reported but to no avail.
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7 dead and 21 stitched up since 1st November here I am not alone
Sometimes when I ask owners to put dogs on leads they just tell me to f*%k off
The only thing I have found that helps is putting notices on social media---local facebook page etc
I don't warn anymore----action speaks louder than words
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I would be livid Tim, if anyone told me to f off if asked to put on lead, and would march them off the property. We re not strict here at all, but thats one thing that will not be tolerated. Disrespecting our wishes and endangering our ladies. Not just that but we also have lots of kids here in the summer too, they're safety paramount
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Problem is the "Right to Roam" mentality. They have the "right" but ignore the fact they also have responsibility. They treat farmland as though it's the local park but it is in fact an industrial area - the industry is agriculture. The National Sheep Association and Farmers Guardian are making free signs available to farmers pointing out that sheep worrying is a serious animal welfare offence. FGinsight is showing pictures of Alister Orr's nine sheep savaged to death by three Alsation dogs s last week - available for distribution around your Facebook friends.
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One thing that dog owners seem unaware of, Control of Dogs Act 1937, which states that ALL dogs MUST be kept on a collar and lead when in a public place. Failing to do so is an offense. As I understand it, dogs found attacking sheep can be legally shot, shame you cannot shoot the owners.
The vast majority of attacks blamed upon Foxes, is in fact the work of stray dogs. Over the years I have noted this;- A fox can walk through a flock of sheep, and they hardly lift their heads from grazing, BUT, let a strange dog in there and it's instant panic .... what does this tell us ?
I fear that it's time farmers and smallholders took on a zero tolerance policy with strays, it's not the dogs fault, that is the nature of the animal, but dog owners must be forced to accept their responsibilities.
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No problem with zero tolerance of strays. Have returned a number of dogs to their owners with a warning and then sent them off with the dog warden the next time they have strayed.
Have had more a of a problem with small time hunters ( on foot) with dogs respecting the limits or boundary. When confronted and they sniggered that dogs couldn't read signs I was happy to reply ( van was at that time rocking from side to side with three boistrous dobes inside) My dogs would be happy to have a chat with their dogs....
Most effective tool otherwise is a camera. ;D
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If you have signs on your gates to your fields stating that you have zero tolerance for any dog left to run about your land l would consider that fair warning. Shoot it !
I have two dogs of my own and wouldnt dream of letting them off the lead were a farmers animals are kept.
The onus is on the dog owner to be responsible, unfortunetly not all dog owners are which is bad news for the dog and anyone who has a run in with one.
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One thing that dog owners seem unaware of, Control of Dogs Act 1937, which states that ALL dogs MUST be kept on a collar and lead when in a public place..
Tim
Im not sure what you've written is accurate....i cannot find a control of dogs act 1937. My understanding is that dogs must be 'under control' at all times. Dogs in a public place must wear a collar with an ID tag. (no mention of being on a lead)....
Perhaps you could confirm your source and its accuracy for the benefit of users of this forum who might use the info in anger (and find themselves to be wrong ?) .
Anyway my dad had a great saying..........'No such thing as a bad dog...just bad owners.'
Some coppers ran over a dog on the A55 last week..the media had a field day. Now im not saying what they did was right (or wrong) but all day the media focussed on these policemen who had been put in a difficult position .....I did not hear one mention of anyone who was interested in the irresponsible dog owner who had allowed their dog to escape onto the A55 and was the root cause of the incident and should in my opinion be hunted down and fined.
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My firearms license says I may shoot pests such as magpies and foxes, but makes no mention of dogs. I would take that to mean that I do not have permission to shoot one with a rifle (although of course I could with a shotgun, which carries no specific conditions of use).
TBH, by the time I've gone inside, found three different keys, got the gun and assembled everything, it would probably be too late. However, I would be keen to know how the law might view me if I did actually shoot a dog!
EDIT: There's lots of good information at this link from FWI (http://www.fwi.co.uk/farm-life/your-legal-rights-on-shooting-dogs-on-your-land.htm). Essentially, I understand it to say that I may shoot a dog that is worrying my livestock IF it is not under control AND if there is no other reasonable means of stopping it. To shoot a dog under any other circumstances looks as though it could land me in some serious trouble (and quite right too).
Also, I was right - I'm not allowed to use a rifle, as it would break my license conditions.
Shooting a dog also gives rise to potential firearms difficulties which farmers should bear in mind. If a rifle or other section 1 firearm has been used, then, unless one of the conditions on which the certificate was granted covers such use, which is extremely unlikely, there is a real risk of prosecution for failing to comply with the certificate conditions.
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I also thought they just had to be under close control as well. I also hate dogs hanging at the end of flexi leads barking their heads off aggressively as the owners try to reel them in.
I don't know if this is stupid, as might cause too much agro, but in such awful, desperate times where sheep are being harmed and its more than a one off, how about a sign saying:
'Black lab cross and grey lurcher shot here mid morning, 23/02/2016 for chasing sheep.
Owners sought to pay compensation for the damage the dogs did.
Dogs seen chasing sheep WILL be shot on site.'
Womble, Would a dog worrying livestock is a pest of livestock..?
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Reading my own comments, I cannot find anywhere that I specified the use of a rifle. I also said dogs found to be sheep attacking, actually caught in the act, not just suspected of doing so.
I have hunting dogs, I also have sheep. My dogs are trained not to attack sheep, because I am what I consider to be a responsible person.
If anyone is in doubt of their rights under law, I am sure that their local constabulary would be only too happy to help.
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Let us be quite clear on this .... Any person hunting rabbits, or any other creature, with or without dogs, on your land, and without your written permit to do so, are nothing more than a common thief.
If they are carrying any form of firearm, they are guilty of armed trespass, don't bother to discuss the issue, just call out the Armed Response Unit and let them deal with it.
Land owners have become far too soft on these various criminals, and we need to make a stand.
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This offers a very informative view on the matter.
http://www.fwi.co.uk/farm-life/your-legal-rights-on-shooting-dogs-on-your-land.htm (http://www.fwi.co.uk/farm-life/your-legal-rights-on-shooting-dogs-on-your-land.htm)
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Timothy - I don't think anybody was disagreeing with the spirit of what you were saying.
Also it was me who mentioned rifles. I just find it amusing that I'm legally allowed to shoot a dog that's worrying my sheep, as long as I don't use my gun to do so! ::)
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Timothy - I don't think anybody was disagreeing with the spirit of what you were saying.
Also it was me who mentioned rifles. I just find it amusing that I'm legally allowed to shoot a dog that's worrying my sheep, as long as I don't use my gun to do so! ::)
Use someone elses gun then. :roflanim:
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I Sent off for the free farmers guardian signs, they sent 25 back! They are already having a positive effect ... We have a footpath the length of our small holding but all of the sheep are fenced well away from the track just in case. In fact I was shouted at last weekend by walkers telling me to put my dogs on a lead! They were a bit red faced when I told them it was my land and my sheep ... But shows not everyone is bad
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In fact I was shouted at last weekend by walkers telling me to put my dogs on a lead! They were a bit red faced when I told them it was my land and my sheep ... But shows not everyone is bad
That's so funny!
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One thing that dog owners seem unaware of, Control of Dogs Act 1937, which states that ALL dogs MUST be kept on a collar and lead when in a public place..
Tim
Im not sure what you've written is accurate....i cannot find a control of dogs act 1937. My understanding is that dogs must be 'under control' at all times. Dogs in a public place must wear a collar with an ID tag. (no mention of being on a lead)....
Perhaps you could confirm your source and its accuracy for the benefit of users of this forum who might use the info in anger (and find themselves to be wrong)
Any chance ?
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My understanding of the law (having spoken to the local Police about options) is that on a public right of way you are obliged to keep a dog under control..---that does not have to mean on a lead
On areas of land that are governed by the CROW act or by Permissive Access rules a dog must be kept on a lead of 2m or less length at ALL times regardless of there being stock in a field or not
If a dog is worrying livestock it is within a farmers right to shoot the dog-----but you better do it humanely (clean shot) and report it to the Police asap
Trouble is most attacks take place with no witnesses so there is little action that can be taken