The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: ricardodba on February 25, 2016, 12:50:44 pm
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Hi All,
Im in the planning phase of keeping my first pigs.
Planning on keeping 2 pigs to grow over the summer and plan to have them slaughtered before the bad weather sets in - so around October.
Im going to apply for a CPH number in the coming week or so.
We have an area in our field we plan to fence off for them. the whole of the area corner slopes down and one corner gets quite boggy, which i think will be ideal for pigs?? Access to this area with a vehicle has also been factored in, so we can load them direct from their area when the time comes.
Im going to build an ark out of a load of pallets i have and use straw to bed them.
So a few questions if i may:
Which fencing type is best (apart from electric)?
Male or Female?
Which breed to start with?...ideally the breed least like a plow!!
Id like to get bacon and sausages from them too...so just wondering if i need to keep them on longer and/or get them sooner?
When should i purchase the weaner's?
Cheers
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I'm probably not the best person to answer your questions. We have now had 3 sets of weaners but that doesn't make us experts.
Anyway, here goes
Fencing - it must be strong. They have remarkable talent for escaping and will find any weaknesses, over, under, through
Male or female - most on here will tell you to get males as then you won't be tempted when the time comes to keep them. For us OH has heard about boar taint (not everyone is sure it even exists) but he has it in his head that he would taste is so we have always had females.
Which breed - they all plough the ground and boy, can they plough, but kune kune pigs may do a bit less damage although having seen my friends area with her kune kune's I'm not so sure. so I would say just get the breed that is readily available to you.
Bacon and sausages - if you want proper bacon, i.e. the size that you get in the shops then you need to keep your pigs until they are bacon weight (not sure when that is as we haven't kept ours that long) but you can get smaller rashers from porkers at 26- 28 weeks.
When should buy them - if you want porkers work backwards from the time you want to despatch them i.e. 26-28 weeks. They need to be 8 weeks old before they leave their mum.
Once you decide when then start putting the feelers out for some and reserve them. Good piggies will sell fast and you could be disappointed.
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Which fencing type is best (apart from electric)? - properly erected post and stock netting. If it is a boggy corner you might struggle to get your posts in tight. They love to dig and rub!
Male or Female? - Get two of the same sex. If you buy them for meat you shouldn't keep them to breed as it is likely they weren't fit for breeding to start with.
Which breed to start with?...ideally the breed least like a plow!! - no such pig! If it is a boggy corner it will be easier to turn over! If it turns to mud it is hard work to feed in etc. Has it got water?
Id like to get bacon and sausages from them too...so just wondering if i need to keep them on longer and/or get them sooner? - depends on breed. Some can be taken towards a 100 kilo's liveweight and you can get pork and bacon.
When should i purchase the weaner's? Usually around 8 weeks old. So as Bionic says work backwards.
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I agree completely with what bionic says. I kept, and bred, pedigree large black pigs for a few years and they were brilliant, well tempered and only the odd escaping pig. Having said that though all pigs do like to dig, some do dig less than others, but provided that you can rotate them around it shouldn't be a massive problem (again depends on what breed of pig you choose). I tried to use normal stock fencing but they kept breaking it and digging under it; However it would be the best option if you're going to be getting weaner's, as they will naturally be able to get under the electric wire. We used to fatten up just males for meat, of course we had the odd female in the litter which didn't come up to breed standards and so we had to kill her, but they tasted just as nice. If you're bothered rather about the risk of boar taint it might be advisable to buy in castrated weaner's, they do grow quicker (so I have been told) and still taste good, however it may be a little difficult to buy them in unless you know of a breeder who does this. There are so many pigs which would be an excellent first choice for a first time pig keeper, I would advise looking on the BPS website for information. All the best with everything, I hope it all goes well and do keep us updated? :)
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Hello
Welcome to pig adventures and mud. ;D [size=78%] I've been keeping pigs for about five years now and don't come on here as often as I used to. I am not an expert but can deffo say that AS and the lovely members were great to me when I first started keeping pigs. Mandy from Fordhall Farm was a superstar and I am eternally grateful to her for her kind and oh so wise words when I first started to keep pigs. So I thought I would pass on some of what I have learned so far in no particular order...[/size]
I have a couple of small herds, I used to just have Mangalitza pigs, (unusual curly coated, fun natured, a bit fiesty but not fierce and they make fab tasting pork sausages). but since then we have tried a range of pigs breeds for personality and taste. My pigs live outdoors naturally all year. As the other AS members have said all pigs dig and rub and most are clever and have excellent memories - they are like dogs in that they need a pecking order and like to be part of the herd/pack so definitely get more than one as they can get depressed on their own - they need to know you are boss just as a puppy does - no biting etc. They are social creatures and yes they are farm animals so must be treated with care and respect, but love to play so footballs / large rubber tyres in the field a mound of woodchip to run up and down etc all add interest to their day.
Vets - its hard to find a good pig vet, fortunately I have only ever needed one twice - once for advice and once to help my struggling sow give birth. I have made some great friends and now have a group of friends and we all help out depending on what is going on - lambing / escaped pig/broken fences etc ;D
I use a small family owned abbatoir and I go with my pigs - they have a good life and a stress free humane end too. We have tried bacon but you need to find a good butcher and you are risking a big part of your pig to bacon you may not like. The same with sausages, try the sausages the butcher makes and if you like them great or if you want a different texture, meat content etc ask .. most good butchers will be happy to do you a sample first.We tried two or three butchers until we got the taste, content and texture we wanted for our sausages. We decided not to do bacon to sell just occasionally for our family and we prefer dry cure but again you need to find a butcher who can do it well and it still be cost effective to do it. It's your hard work and care that has gone into rearing your pigs so don't be afraid to search for a good butcher, the last thing you want is a bad batch of sausages you don't really enjoy. We put all our pig into our sausage, fillet, shoulder, leg meat etc and have a very high meat content. My friend does the opposite and makes about double the amount of sausages to us as there is a lot more filler in, but again each to their own.. she loves hers, we love ours. ;D
We have tried breeding and still do about once or twice a year but generally I now have a couple of good breeders/farmers who I get my weaners from. I also have four 'rescued' weaners in my outhouse at the moment that I went to look at as I could not leave them in the hell hole they were in (not wise and I did what I have advised others not to do but I could not leave them) I would advise to never buy a pig that looks skinny, is scratching a lot, has runny eyes or nose, isscaly, smells bad etc).. it will take ages to get them back on track (if at all) and they will rarely reach their full potential after a bad start. Read up on here about what to look for - there is loads of good advice. Unhealthy piglets also may affect your existing pigs and you may have vets bill. In my experience some people breed pigs as they think they can make a quick easy buck - that is not the case and as a result some are housed in the most terrible shacks, fed rubbish, treated badly and have unhappy lives and produce scrawny piglets. Healthy pigs smell lovely - a bit like celery and straw and earth and a healthy weaner should be chunky/chubby and frisky and running and playing. If bred inside they will still look healthy if they have been well bred, treated and weaned. They will probably scream the place down when picked up so be prepared. Someone who cares about their pigs and are proud of what they have produced should be more than happy to answer any questions you have, give advice etc.. so if in doubt ask or don't buy - go away and think about it.
My favourite breeds are GOS, Mangalitza's, followed by Large White and Sandy and Blacks and all crosses of those.. I think you reap what you sow, if you treat animals well but carefully and they trust you - they are settled and okay. We have NEVER had a problem with boar taint or a nasty pig and we have made sausages out of both sexes and taste tested and NEVER been able to tell the difference.. If your pigs are happy and have a good non intensive natural life and end - they are fine. I believe boar taint can occur but in intensively reared and killed pigs who have got really stressed and were probably very unhappy too.
We have tried Large Blacks and found them (two sisters) the worst mixers and nippers/trouble causes of all the pigs we have had.. :) Plus they were a slimmer less haunchy shape so we got less sausage from them than the other breeds I mentioned. But each to thier own. GOS tend to be generally very sweet natured but I had a friend who had a bolshy GOS (Doris) who used to beat all her other pigs up!
Definitely get two of the same sex - and don't name them - it just makes it harder when you take them to the abbatoir :o :D
Hope that is helpful - good luck and keep in touch.
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Fencing. Sturdy posts and stock netting. But an electric wire is invaluable to prevent attempts to dig under.
Breed and ploughing. As all comments above. Our 3 year experience has been
saddlebacks ploughed< Berkshire, who ploughed < GOSxS&Bs. But realistically it was as soon as the ground for soft the noses went in so annual rainfall more relevant than breed perhaps!
As to pork or bacon, for our own use we have found all are fine, it is more about if you want particular amounts of fat or cut shape that the 'specialist' pigs are needed.
Enjoy!
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Hi
Just out of curiosity, why not electric fence? (running round inside of stock fence)?
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thanks for all your replies guys...very helpful.
No electric fence cos we're off-grid so worried about power usage...maybe a small car battery in a water proof box will do the trick...but then there are the kids to worry about, touching electric fence etc!
whats people opinions on cross breeds vs pure breeds ?...i see a lot of cross weaners for sale on the internet.
I was thinking about kune kunes to start with as they are smaller and maybe easier to handle???...but they seem rather expensive when at the end of the day they will end up in my freezer!
I will be getting 2 as a minimum...is it worth getting 2 different breeds to see which i get on best with?
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There is nothing wrong with cross breeds. Buying a recognised breed helps those breeds. Kune's grow very slowly compared to other pigs. Two pigs is a lot of pork. Four is twice as much! :eyelashes: Get two and go from there. Don't compromise your bio security buying from different places.
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Where about are you?
Might be someone local willing to show you how they do things and give you a better idea of what to expect?
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Crosses are fine. I use a small solar powered electric fence by Wolserley which is very easy and not very high powered. Just enough to stop pigs or children touching it twice!
http://www.screwfix.com/p/wolseley-sx250-solar-powered-electric-fence-energiser-battery-operated/7617F?kpid=7617F&cm_mmc=Google-_-Product%20Listing%20Ads-_-Sales%20Tracking-_-sales%20tracking%20url&cm_mmc=Google-_-Shopping%20-%20Outdoor%20and%20Gardening-_-Shopping%20-%20Outdoor%20and%20Gardening&gclid=CLnJt7zOlcsCFUyeGwod93EDSA (http://www.screwfix.com/p/wolseley-sx250-solar-powered-electric-fence-energiser-battery-operated/7617F?kpid=7617F&cm_mmc=Google-_-Product%20Listing%20Ads-_-Sales%20Tracking-_-sales%20tracking%20url&cm_mmc=Google-_-Shopping%20-%20Outdoor%20and%20Gardening-_-Shopping%20-%20Outdoor%20and%20Gardening&gclid=CLnJt7zOlcsCFUyeGwod93EDSA)
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We breed kunes to sell for meat and pets, and meat for ourselves.
They "seem expensive" as weaners because the kune kune community have set a fair price. All these other weaners sold at £30-50 or even less through markets, I've seen weaners at £5, are making the breeders a loss.
If you bear in mind a kune kune may eat 1/4 of the hard feed of traditional pigs, although it may take until 10-14 months old to reach the same slaughter weights, your costs are lower, and the meat is beautifully sweet and red with being a bit slower grown. Also they are exceptionally friendly.
I wouldn't even want to try other pigs having done kunes for the last few years.
Hope that helps.
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If I were starting in your situation I'd put up proper pig fencing - if not trained to electric fencing the weaners may well escape a few times before they get the message, and without a hard fence where might they end up? A boggy corner will certainly be churned into slurry very quickly, by any breed, and if the wettest bit happens to be their dunging corner it'll be unpleasant for you and for the pigs. Pigs need shade, shelter, a dry lie and constant clean water. Pallets are very soft wood - the sort a growing pig loves to use as a teething ring. I'd choose 2 native breed boars as they'll finish quicker. If you have KK they'll be with you over the Winter while they come up to finishing weight. Boar taint isn't something we've ever encountered, having kept hundreds of GOS, Saddlebacks and OSB's, sometimes the boars going in at 28 weeks, and suspect it's rarely found in native breed pigs.
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im up on the moors in west yorkshire...bronte country
So, if there's anyone nearby that would be nice and handy??
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Gisburn have a fortnightly pig auction, why not go along for a look? Get an idea of prices, and if you get there early enough you may be able to have a chat with someone bringing piglets in, they may have more at home.
I can't seem to get Craven mart page up, not sure if they do pigs.
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im up on the moors in west yorkshire...bronte country
So, if there's anyone nearby that would be nice and handy??
Im in Leeds but keeping Large Whites at the mo so not what you want. Based on where you are I'd use Aire Valley or Ogdens vets if I were you. Lots of choice of abattoirs too - but check they'll do the meat how you want it before the pigs go in! :)
Proper fencing is necessary, and worth it in the long run. I'd also be wary of pallets as a shelter - pigs love to chew wood, especially soft wood, and you run the risk of them destructing it and then standing on nails (I speak from experience of nails in piggy feet! :D)
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Just received my CPH number...
...so, does this now mean im 'legally' allowed to keep pigs and other livestock?
The letter states along with other stuff that i need to register with APHA if i intend to keep any livestock.
Thanks.
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Just received my CPH number...
...so, does this now mean im 'legally' allowed to keep pigs and other livestock?
The letter states along with other stuff that i need to register with APHA if i intend to keep any livestock.
Thanks.
Yes you can go get your pigs now. When you arrive back home with them you need to ring animal health to get a herd number from them, once you have this you need to go on eaml2 (within 3 days of pigs arriving on your land) and accept the movement.
Same thing with other livestock, but instead of eaml2 its Arams (sheep/goats) or BCMS (cattle)
Good luck :)
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To keep sheep you'll also need a flock number, which is entirely different from your herd no.
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I have had 3 sets of pigs and found them all locally on the facebook groups. I wouldn't go for more than 2 to begin with, it is amazing how much meat you get and I am still regretting being talked into 3 last summer (after we had 2 in the spring) as there is sooooo much, but it is yummy. ;D
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I'd get your herd number first but tell them you are picking the animals up the next day so they don't drag their heels.
You need a number (flock or herd) for each species you want to keep (pigs, goats, sheep, cattle), although there are exceptions with poultry where I think you don't need one until you have hundreds or maybe even thousands of birds.
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Maybe pigs are different but why do you need your own herd number so urgently?
Isn't CPH the one needed for movement, your own herd number isn't as urgent? And not really used until breeding. Don't shout at me, i know one will be needed but i can't think of when I use mine except when tagging.
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Maybe pigs are different but why do you need your own herd number so urgently?
Isn't CPH the one needed for movement, your own herd number isn't as urgent? And not really used until breeding. Don't shout at me, i know one will be needed but i can't think of when I use mine except when tagging.
You don't need a herd number urgently - infact our local animal health will not give you one until you get your first stock back onto your land.
CPH/Postcode/Address etc. are all more than sufficient to complete a movement :)
Herd numbers are also used for sending your pigs for slaughter - be it a slap mark or tag. Pedigrees use HDLs for breeding (not sure if the same for kunes). Herd numbers should also be used for sending pigs to mart IMO but that's a separate argument :D
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sounds like CPH is enough for now :excited:
i have no intention on breeding and my pigs will only go to slaughter for my personal consumption once ready...i..e not to market or for sale.
i'm now re-thinking the wooden pallet ark idea.
Thing is, the 'proper' arks are so expensive!
Does anyone local have an old ark for sale?
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Look out for an old plastic oil tank - these make great arcs for porkers/kunekune :thumbsup:
There's a green plastic model with straight sides and a curved shape - that's the best one to go for ;) Cut a hole in one end for a door (about 2ft wide and 2.5ft high and leave a lip of 2-3inches at the bottom to keep water out) and drill some 10mm holes in the opposite end to provide ventilation, you'll need to wash it out several times with plenty fairy liquid and hot water to move the oil residue and cap the pipe openings on top (we use a roof slate with a stone on top).
Once finished you have a green plastic arc, with a floor attached which is super easy to roll to a new position. You can usually find the tanks on eBay, gumtree, local ads.
Good luck with the pigs :)
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There is another good thread on oil tank pig shelters started by Womble