The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: Buffy the eggs layer on February 23, 2016, 06:51:16 am
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I have the fist 4 of this years lambers in the shed. One was due Sunday and one was due yesterday the other two are due on Weds and Thur. They are experience lamber but this is there first time with me.
They are bagged up and the first two have udders the size of footballs but are not seeming to be in any rush to lamb. In order to pass the time while starring hopefully at the lambing camera I was reading some previous threads about over due lambs and how smallholders encouraged them to give birth. Telling them that you are going out for the day seemed a popular choice along with getting a shower and putting on your best clothes. :-\
A number of people who lambed outdoors seemed to think their sheep waited for bad weather which got me thinking.....what do sheep wait for when lambing...? Dusk, dawn, a clear day or a rainy one?[size=78%] [/size]
Prior to this group which I bought in last year my ewes always lambed on the day or 24 hours either side if they had multiples or singles. But the weather is fine and sunny here and when the wind drops its lovely. Looks like perfect weather to get ewes and lambs onto fresh grass. But hey what do I know ;D
I just wondered if any of you had observed and patterns to your lambing?
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Once one starts!! Safety in numbers maybe or the smell may trigger something. The majority of mine all lambed in the morning after feeding last year.
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Mmmm thats an interesting observation shotblast. I was thinking about smells yesterday and wondering if I might end up with an avalanche of lambs once the domino effect kicked in.
just about to go dish up breakfast so we will see if today is the day..........
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Of the 7 that have lambed so far this year 5 have been daytime and the last two have been at 4am. Six have lambed before the due date and one smack on. The due date for most of the others is tomorrow but the last one is 4th March. It has been very light due to the moon the last two nights if that has anything to do with it.
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I have found that as well - sheep due around the same time if one starts it sets off others, most I find lamb early morning between 3 am and 9am . We've 2 weeks to go, getting excited!
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They wait to see how stressed they can get you!!
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my first one to lamb was yesterday - 5 days early. She had a small udder and I thought she was a few weeks away!
She lambed at 5pm when it was just getting dark if that helps.
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I have 1 sheep due to lamb, she looks like she is carrying quads snd her bag is big, but she just keeps getting bigger and I am holding my breath waiting for her to pop them out. I get this with the buffalo too, sometimes they go over or under and the calf is always fine. With sheep its a lot trickier to tell. :)
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well they all ate a hearty breakfast but then they did all need a lie down ;D
Harmony they are testing my metle this year but only because I have taken a week off work to lamb this group then back to work for a week before another week off to lamb the next cohort. So if they dont get it done and dusted they will bugger up all my plans ::) but when did sheep care about that!
Mine lamb at all times of day and night but I have never really noticed a pattern with the weather. We have indeed had an enormous snow moon ( or hunger moon if you prefer ) Buttermilk though I havent really thought about the role that the moon or moon light might play either. :thinking:
If it wasnt for their mahooosive udders I would start doubting whether I had written their raddle mark day down wrong ( but of all my shepherding tasks that one really isnt that complicated lol!)
I'm hoping that all this overdue lamb discussion will act as a charm and they will lamb as soon as I have finished typing. Just out of interest though whats the longest that your ewes have gone over due?
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We have one fit to bust, the others start coming in March. Full moon almost upon us, we think it helps??
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Up to 10 days overdue is usually still viable, much beyond and the lamb will usually struggle.
I lambed on a farm one year where the teaser was fertile, so the gimmers lambed early to a Suffolk instead of the usual lleyn or milk sheep that make for easy lambing!! Obviously with black headed lambs, we could tell which the teaser covered!
One night I had a really tough lambing of a single, and despite attempts to revive it, I couldn't and was frustrated. When the farmer came in the morning, he pointed out its black head and that the teaser's lambs should have stopped coming 10 days ago, so it was 10 days over and was clearly a normal induction of labour and a live lamb. If it had been a roomy ewe it would have likely lived.
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Other than within the month corresponding to the time the tups were in, we usually have no idea when our girls will pop. They lamb outdoors, mostly but not exclusively before 6am.
It might seem obvious to us to lamb on a bright, dry night, but why would that bother a sheep? She can smell and hear all she needs to, she cleans and feeds her lamb so it's able to stand a little rain BUT who else is around on that bright and shiny night? Foxie, and other predators. So maybe that's why ewes often lamb into the teeth of a storm, it's safer for her lamb. I hadn't thought about it before. Because we don't really know when each will lamb (we don't scan) we don't know if they are late, early or bang on time. Buffy, you've clearly got far too much time on your hands watching these ewes - start painting the living room or something ;D
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The vast majority of mine would lamb just before sunrise. I chose to lamb outside and they always chose the hedge line which offered shelter. I bred black Welsh though, they are very good mothers and easy lambers. I think the more commercial types are more dopey... its amazing how strong lambs are though.
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How can you predict when the ewes are due down to a day?
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I've been recording lambing times for the past few years (sad I know!) - black welsh, lambing outdoors.
Mine mostly either lamb between 4am and 8am, or between 8pm and 10pm.
I find my first timers (ewe-lambs) tend to lamb in the morning slot.
I think the more confident the ewes (i.e. least flighty, most friendly) the more likely it is that they will lamb outside those times, or if they know I'm around - it may be that they associate me with safety.
I had a ewe once who'd been in labour for a little while, but not long enough for me to be worried. Well, I went into the field to check on her (from a distance with the binoculars :) ) and she got up and walked straight over to me (they would normally stay put or walk in the opposite direction!) .... it took me a while to cotton on but it turned out she was asking for help, the lamb was backwards and she obviously knew she wasn't going to get it out by herself! I never underestimate them now :) .
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Like fleecewife unless I've seen a mating and noted it I don't know exactly when the ewes are due to lamb. Last year they pretty much all lambed early morning with the odd one later in the day. Other years it hasn't been the same , something to do with the moon? maybe, worth looking at.
I do often hve an idea the night before if a ewe is due to lamb, her behaviour will change. Some are more obvious than others. All this talk of lambs and mine are still weeks away!
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How can you predict when the ewes are due down to a day?
You need to know exactly what day they were mated (ie. daily checking of raddle marks), then you work on the average gestation time of 147 days (but that can vary in some breeds). You would usually allow + or - 2 days around that, and it can change depending on the weather - ewes might hold off until a storm passes etc.
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Verdfish I do as Foobar says and write the date in the diary. Knowing when they are due means that I know when to start feeding them, when to vaccinate them and when to bring them into the lambing shed.
Up until this group my Ryelands have lambed pretty much on the day with the exception of those carrying a large single who have gone a day over. But even then you could tell by all the huffing and puffing, lip curling and grinding of teeth in the 48 hours before that they were thinking about it. FSM thats very interesting about the seriously over due lamb due to its size? Those suffolks are beautiful but they do have awfully big heads.
Foobar, I experienced one of my neighbours commercial suffolks " asking me for help" one year when I was helping with lambing and she kept following me while I was filling up water buckets and laying down in front of me and bleating at me until I reached inside her. The farmer had gone to lunch and his big flighty ewes were normally assisted by one person holding the ewe down and another at the back end but this girl persuaded me to lamb her schmalenberg twins on my own as she couldn't get them out. These are not silly, soppy, answer to their name pets like my girls so I was doubly surprised but yes you are right, they do learn to trust their shepherd.
Fleecewife you have guilt tripped me into getting out into the sun and finishing off the pasture harrowing that I started yesterday. At this rate I will have it seeded and growing new pasture by the time this lazy bunch get their uterus in gear!
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I have no idea when ours are due to the day (there's 1200 of them, I'm not that good) but we change the raddle colour each week to house them a week at a time. I haven't noticed any particular pattern time of day wise, but it does definitely happen that if the weather has been bad, then we have a nice day, they all stop. Although we usually have a few a day or two early, we never (yet, hope I don't regret this) have any lambing outside, ie more than a week early. But we do sometimes seem to have a few crossing their legs for AGES at the end. They do lamb outside, so we can get the mucking out done.
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Hmm, one year when snow stayed on the ground for six weeks around December all my ewes lambed six days late, another year nine days early - no idea why.
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Well I didn't get the harrowing done as I was delivering mis presented twins from the ewe who is due tomorrow. ::)
Oh I do love sheep.
The three remaining are now in 3 separate but adjoining lambing areas (as I am sick of them headbutting each other in the guts) The ewe and her twins are in their bonding pen with a lamp and I'm having a well earned cuppa!
One down...ten to go!
Mowhaugh, when you lamb that many as you say its more about groups of ewes according to raddle colour not individuals. Besides...you wouldnt find a calendar big enough to write all their names in lol!
When I helped my commercial neighbour with hundreds they were just lambing all day every day and we did things differently as a result.
With the one that I just lambed I let her clean off the first lamb that I delivered and give it her attention while I stood back and had a well earned cuppa and waited for the second bag. Then I delivered the second one and tagged and iodined the first and got it feeding while she cleaned the second. If I was lambing hundreds however I know that once I had delivered the first and could feel that the second was there I would have reached right in and fished it out as I would need to be moving on to the next one.
Larger numbers are easier in a way than smaller ones I think :thinking:
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I really do envy you buffy..... my ewe which is due to lamb keeps getting bigger and bigger all the time and won't lamb, I don't think she is quite ready yet though. ::)
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Well they lamb when they are ready I suppose don't they WBF. Perhaps she is carrying triplets lol! Dont feel too envious though....I still have two overdue and one due on Thursday so it's anybodies guess when they will arrive. Happy with todays little bundles of life though. Two lovely strong healthy lambs and a calm and capable ewe. At least she has broken the spell.... :relief:
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Larger numbers are easier in a way than smaller ones I think :thinking:
I do know what you mean, when I am doing main lambing, I just operate in lambing mode and there isn't any time to worry about anything, you just get on with it. The shetlands (all 12 of them) are due earlier this year due to a malfunction (shetland tup scaling stone dyke to find wives) and clearly I can't sit in the shed all day every day for 3 weeks for 12 sheep, but I am already very stressed about them. It would help if I knew exactly which date Ken had done the mountaineering trick, but at least he found the right wives!
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clearly I can't sit in the shed all day every day for 3 weeks for 12 sheep
Why ever not? I intend to! ;D
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clearly I can't sit in the shed all day every day for 3 weeks for 12 sheep
Why ever not? I intend to! ;D
I think my 3 children and my employers at my day job, from which I've already got unpaid leave from for main lambing, which is not easy to achieve, might get a bit cross. Although it would be lovely I could actually have time to read a book or two in between!
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We've got 2 weeks to go for our Heb girls (13 in lamb this year) Last year the girls (10 in lamb) mostly all lambed in a 2 week window mostly starting at 5 - 6 am, only 1 lambed in the night and 1, 2 weeks after we thought we had finished ! 1 tiny little surprise ...
All of ours find a space on their own then the usual throwing head back and showing teeth, then pawing the ground ... Usually only 10 mins after this.
We do check them every 2 hours during lambing and have great neighbours who love to help.
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Another lambed at 3am today. Only 7 more to go.
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I confess I don't do the 'expectant father' thing. I make sure my ewes are fit and healthy, sufficient good quality feed, access to forage, plenty of good hay available, clean water and suitable shelter, then I let them get on with it. I avoid messing them about. I don't scan, it won't put a lamb in there is there is none. If one seems to be in trouble, I do what I can, but generally they don't need me fussing.
Due dates, just as with humans, is at best an estimate, they are not a production line in a factory, the little ones will come when they are good and ready to.
I keep Soay ewes, and they have thrived for many generations on an island without human intervention. One of the reasons I chose that breed is because they are hardy and independent.
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Interesting that [member=11699]Red[/member] and [member=4333]Fleecewife[/member] and myself all have Hebrideans and yes definately that 5am -6am ish period is when over 90% pop out its in the dark but light then comes in an hour or 2 so could quite well be a primative predatory response the breed has retained. i.e when you are lying on your side you are at the greatest risk from predators so you lamb in the dark but you want to then see protect and nurture them so just before daybreak is perfect. Pretty much we do a last check late at night then first thing and if lambed the lambs are still very wet. You get the very odd one during the day but not many!
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We have a rolling rota so that someone checks at 10 p.m., then someone else at 1 a.m. and a different person at 4 a.m. and someone gets up at 6.30 a.m. anyway. That way we spot those about to lamb and can pen them in a clean pen to minimise the risk of disease and make the ewe much easier to handle if she needs help. It also means that someone gets a full night's sleep every third night. We all rain down praise on the inventor of the electric blanket!
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We lamb on yard under spot lights, I hated lambing on fields. The twins have they're own digs already with some lean singles, getting all the gubbins and the singles with some licks and haylage, the singles come down in two weeks.
We had a set of twins yesterday, marked as an early(one of each, beautiful lambs) and an early single due anytime.
Each night we have at least ten pens set up, limed, shavings with straw on top. We let them mother up and then put them away. if they lamb during the day, we let them mooch about in the sun, they still get penned for a few nights after that. Then put into a small social group with a few other ewes and lambs, and then get sent up. Everyone has orojet as routine at navel spraying. This year I will make note of each time when doing lambing list.
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Ps there's two of us.
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We have a rolling rota so that someone checks at 10 p.m., then someone else at 1 a.m. and a different person at 4 a.m. and someone gets up at 6.30 a.m. anyway. That way we spot those about to lamb and can pen them in a clean pen to minimise the risk of disease and make the ewe much easier to handle if she needs help. It also means that someone gets a full night's sleep every third night. We all rain down praise on the inventor of the electric blanket!
I am so jealous - it's just me doing all the night time checks so I end up totally exhausted. Was up most of the night with a goat kidding and am struggling to keep my eyes open now
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lambing is like being on a different planet for a few weeks :innocent: Mind you i am a space cadet anyway :roflanim:
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Interesting that [member=11699]Red[/member] and [member=4333]Fleecewife[/member] and myself all have Hebrideans and yes definately that 5am -6am ish period is when over 90% pop out its in the dark but light then comes in an hour or 2 so could quite well be a primative predatory response the breed has retained. i.e when you are lying on your side you are at the greatest risk from predators so you lamb in the dark but you want to then see protect and nurture them so just before daybreak is perfect. Pretty much we do a last check late at night then first thing and if lambed the lambs are still very wet. You get the very odd one during the day but not many!
Isn't it interesting the apparent differences between the lambing of Primitive sheep and highly domesticated ones? Looks like a very interesting topic for research, with relevance to the sheep industry.
I wonder how many generations it takes for Primitive characteristics to fade away?
David Kinsman, who wrote 'The Black Sheep of Windermere' postulates that Soay tend to lamb in May rather than April or earlier and that this may be because their recent origins are from further north. I wonder if this is so, and if so, whether Boreray, Icelandic and other northern sheep also tend to lamb later, if left to their own devices. How long would it take for them to lose this tendency? Hebs are most happy lambing in April and it's 130 years since they headed south to the Lakes, so about 100 generations since they left home, and they have changed their way. I suppose the basic question is 'how long does it take for an animal to acquire behaviour modified by their environment'?
You've posted a very interesting question Buffy :thumbsup:
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I think sheep adapt very quickly to different conditions, until about 4 or 5 years ago we lambed outdoors and there was always very much a dawn rush of lambs. We moved indoors out of necessity a few years ago (person high snowdrifts) and immediately the lambing spread out over the day. We found it worked better for us indoors, so we've just stuck with it.
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[member=4333]Fleecewife[/member] This would be a very interesting PhD study for someone ... We lamb outside as we are really keen for the girls to feel that they in an environment that they are comfortable in. Having said that, our outdoor pen is 2/3 field 1\3 wood with 2 dedicated pens away from all the elements which we encourage the girls to go into for a rest with their lambs, works a treat