The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: WestBerkshire on January 07, 2016, 08:50:28 pm
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So completely new to keeping pigs, we've always had chickens but this is a whole new game.
Me and my mother decided we'd try keeping pigs but we only wish to start with keeping 2 or 3 for the sake of keeping it simple and not diving into the deep end and having it all go wrong. We want to take our time learning the skills that it takes to rear these beautiful animals and if that means 50 years, so be it, and think it's best we start with only a few.
We only wish to rear them to slaughter age, dependant on breed the age will of course differ but my questions are as follows;
Generally speaking, which breed of pig is best for the beginner in mind?
We don't have a preference of breed at this stage, despite my name with Berkshire in it. We just want to get learning, and if there's a breed that makes it easier on the beginner - they'll be the ones we want :).
How much land will 2, maybe 3 pigs need as they grow to slaughter age?
We're able to rent land, possibly buy - we just need to know how much.
What's the abattoir experience like with moving, receiving and anything else involved in the process?
When we order pigs into the butchery where I work, we receive a whole carcass to work on or in halves, that other farmers raise - but to raising your own and sending them away is new to me with the legalities and procedures you need to take. What steps need to be taken?
We're okay on everything else thus far, feed, bedding, enclosure, fencing, it was just these questions we had in our mind before getting started.
If any more questions arise I'll be sure to ask - but for me and my mother we wanted to ensure we got as much right as possible to ensure good health and welfare to the animals. To also make our experience a much smoother one, or as smooth as possible.
I really appreciate to what TAS has to offer, so we're happy to hear tips and advice from you - if there was anything else you wanted to add, please do!
Thanks for reading, and sorry for a length post.
Matt.
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Get a copy of Pig Keeping by Richard Lutwyche - brief, concise and all you need to know to get started. I suggest starting with buying 8 week old weaners off farm (find someone friendly if you can, who'll provide a back up service for advice if you need it) and taking them through to slaughter. Get 'em in May so you don't have problems with mud and freezing quite hard to go wrong with healthy weaners, given shelter, shade, constant fresh water and the right amount and type of feed.
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There are many pig breeds which are excellent for beginners. I started with large black, which ended up being a herd but that is another story altogether. Would you like to keep traditional or commercial? Commercial pigs are faster growing than the traditional and I think they may be leaner? The traditional breeds, breed beautiful tasting pork with a nice fat layer, depending on feeding regime. There are a few breeds, very docile to consider..... The large black is one of them; very docile animal, good temperaments and ideal for a smallholder. The pork is beautifully flavoursome and it is the rarest breed of pig in britain, according to the RBST. There are of course other pigs to consider, Tamworth, oxford sandy and black affectionately known as osb. These are just a few examples of breeds you could buy. I would advise going on the BPA website, they have a list of pig breeds on there and it describes what they're all like in temperament and breeding. Hope this helps and all the best :thumbsup:
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Breed - get one you like the look of, but get one with floppy ears - the reason for this is that they are easier to sneak up on in case you have to catch them or do anything to them that they might not like ... or even put down their food without them seeing you and running over to you and bowling you over! ;)
Time of year - don't get them in winter! Too much mud.
Area - not much. Not even 0.25 acre.
When you move them onto your property or off it you will have to fill in a movement form - this is all online. You will need to register for a herd number with Animal Health, and they can give you the details of the online system. You will need to get some ear tags too with your herd number on.
Make sure you have some way of getting them to the abattoir - a trailer or someone with a trailer who will help you. Most abattoirs offer a cutting service where they joint the meat for you, or else you can get the meat (whole carcass) delivered to your local butcher who can cut it for you. Or, if it's only for your own consumption, you can cut it yourself at home.
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We had Gloucestershire Old Spots, who were lovely (and very tasty).
Have you checked that the owner of the land you might rent is happy for you to have pigs? A lot of people round here won't allow pigs because of the digging - however, if you can find someone with a patch of land they want clearing and turning over, they'd probably welcome pigs with open arms.
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I gave up rearing pigs a few years ago but have a keen grandson so may start again. My set up is an ark with a door at each end with a pen of about 60 X30 feet at each end and a fence dividing the two up to half the ark. This is easily enough for 3 fatteners.
The idea is that when one half is trashed you close one door and open the other. In reasonable weather this will do the pigs until they go off, I fed sow rolls plus fruit and veg that I raked out of the bins from a wholesaler.
As to breeds, well whatever takes your fancy or whatever is available nearby. All pigs will give you pork, bacon and ham though some breeds are better than others at this.
Good luck!!
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Wow, thank you so much for all the responses!
I'll see if I can answer them in one post;
Marches Farmer - Thank you for the book recommendation, I'll have a browse on the web and locate it for purchase. I've taken note to start keeping pigs from May onwards - So we'll buy our pigs then!
waterbuffalofarmer - We're looking to keeping pure bred pigs. We've just been nosing on the BPA website, and after your recommendation of large blacks, we think they would be the breed to go with :) Thanks!
Foobar - We've chosen Large Black's, and we have decided to go with your advice and Marches - to not get them now, but wait until Spring which will make it easier and avoid the troubles that winter and colder weather brings. :)
We were looking at renting 1 acre, which seems to be more than plenty then!
I've taken note of the information, so as soon as we begin to purchase our piggies we'll be contacting Animal Health for a herd number and we'll fill in that movement form.
We have a friend locally who has a trailer that will lend it to us, we're quite fortunate!
CarolineJ - Yes, we contacted the owner - he had no troubles :)
devonlady - Why did you give up, may I ask? That's a good rotational plan - I'll keep that in mind for when my herd grows and we get more land :)
These two pigs will be for our own consumption but...
Just thinking back to the abattoir question; Should our pig farming hobby succeed we'd be looking to add numbers to our herd as time grows.
I'm just thinking about the slaughtering process and having plenty of meat to budge - Do people sell or give to their friends? Is that an okay thing to do? or do they sell them to abattoirs, do abattoirs buy from smallholdings as well as the larger pig farms?
Many questions have arisen from the original few lol.
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We would recommend kune kunes for beginners. They are slightly smaller than a lot of other breeds, but you can get a very similar slaughter weight if you leave them later, buy from a larger line or feed plenty of grazing. They tend to root less than other breeds, given 1/4 of an acre each will rarely turn any over. They eat about 1/4 the feed of bigger pigs, so even with a couple of months longer to feed, they're much cheaper to feed. They come in a variety of colours so you can choose what you like. And they're extra friendly. Our sow can sit and roll over on command!
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Regarding getting rid of the meat ... You can sell or give your meat to other people as long as you do not cut or touch the raw meat or store it. I.e. the meat has to be handled in a place approved by H&S food standards. So, you can collect the meat from the abattoir or butcher and then take it to your customer, as long as the journey isn't long and you take care to keep the meat chilled (this doesn't mean in a refrigerated van, it just means bung some freezer packs on them).
You can store the meat on your premises but you have to have a dedicated fridge or freezer that the H&S bods have seen and approved and you would have to monitor temperatures etc.
Some abattoirs or butchers would buy your meat, if they think it's good enough (i.e. not too fat etc), but they usually like a regular supply or else they will only buy if they are short that week.
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Can I recommend you get hold of a copy of "Perfect Pigs" (http://www.oaklandspigs.co.uk/perfect-pigs-book/)by forum member [member=3020]oaklandspigs[/member].
I've found that many books on pig keeping are filled with pretty pictures of piglets, but not much detail on what you actually need to know. This one's the opposite - page after page of advice giving detailed answers to all your questions above and much more :thumbsup:.
Regards handling the meat, if you work in a butchery, can you not use the same abbatoir as those pigs usually come from? Then, provided you can make arrangements with your work, they could be butchered and packaged up for you in exactly the same way. (OK, that might not be possible if your work is actually Asda or wherever, but it seemed so obvious I couldn't not mention it!).
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Can I recommend you get hold of a copy of "Perfect Pigs" (http://www.oaklandspigs.co.uk/perfect-pigs-book/)by forum member [member=3020]oaklandspigs[/member].
I've found that many books on pig keeping are filled with pretty pictures of piglets, but not much detail on what you actually need to know. This one's the opposite - page after page of advice giving detailed answers to all your questions above and much more :thumbsup:.
Regards handling the meat, if you work in a butchery, can you not use the same abbatoir as those pigs usually come from? Then, provided you can make arrangements with your work, they could be butchered and packaged up for you in exactly the same way. (OK, that might not be possible if your work is actually Asda or wherever, but it seemed so obvious I couldn't not mention it!).
Thanks for the recommendation, Womble!
I could do, and arranging for the pigs to be delivered there and picked up isn't the problem - but I have to be careful with what I plan on doing with the meat.
The reason my first two or three pigs will be for our own consumption is because if I decided to sell that meat, I'd be competing with my own work. In my contract ( somewhere ) I signed to never directly compete with my own work, thus this would be violation of my contract.
It'd lead to actions taken against me, with the possible loss of a job. This also was in my old contract for when I worked in a supermarket butchery.
I should clarify though, I'd never intend to sell my meat. Just in a 'what if' scenario, should I look to expanding what do I with the excess meat. Likelihood is to give it to neighbours and friends.
If my butcher saw 20 pigs turn up under my name at his butchery he'd be wanting to know why, and what I'm doing with all that meat and why his pork sales are down :P
1 or 2 isn't a problem though! I'll have to ask him and see if he'll help me contact the abattoir in Boston, which is the one we use.
Good thinking though!
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Matt,
I think starting modestly is a great idea but I think you will get the hang of it in less than 50 years. ;D
If you have had experience of caring for sheep, goats, cattle or even hoses than I dont think getting your head around pigs will be to tricky. All livestock are different but things like condition scoring, vaccinating, worming etc are universal.
I currently keep Kunes for meat as their small size and puppy dog nature is ideally suited to my set up and my reason for smallholding. They are often listed as an ideal beginners pig though I actually started out my piggy adventures by working on a rare breeds farm with Tamworth, GOS and Middle white. They were all great piggies but quite different fro the kune kunes.
Kunes come in 3 types. LIttle pet types, larger show types and leaner meat types. Their foraging habits and laid back nature leads to a light, sweet meat but the show and pet type will lad down more fat than the meat type. Having said that they are cheaper to feed as they do very well on very little. They are slower to mature so are usually butchered at about 12 months but if castrated could be run on much longer. They eat a low protein, high fiber diet so having available grazing for them would be important.
Oh the floppy ear thing doesn't apply to kunes...they are all docile and love affection regardless of their ears ::) [size=78%] [/size]
So getting near them for routine tasks is not a problem. If you are not confident with the idea of a big pig or you just like your livestock to behave like soppy labradors these guys work well.
If you want to buy a leaner pig in May and finish it before the autumn weather sets in then how about a Pietrain x middlewhite? They have a double muscle on their hams so lots of meat. You could finish them as porkers or bacon pigs.
There is a good Abattoir guide on here which would be worth a read.
HTH
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I have had OSB's and Gloucester Old Spots and really didn't find too much difference between them. Both produced good meat although my old spots were probably slightly leaner.
If the meat is for yourrself then meat from 3 pigs is a lot, unless perhaps you are a big family. There are 2 of us and we had 2 weaners each time but a couple of years apart. We can usually get through the meat in that time, what with sausages and giving some to family and friends.
Still, if you are already in the butchering trade then you must be familar with the quantity of meat so I will shut up now ;D
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Womble - thanks for your recommendation and Westberkshire, we'd be delighted to dispatch a book to you.
You could also consider a one day course, we run these from March to September, and have vacancies on our April courses, so that would be perfect timing to allow you to prepare for May, and have everything set up correctly and you brimming with confidence. The course includes
•How much space do I need, what about housing, what sort of fencing?
•What equipment do I need?
•What can I feed, how much, what will it cost ?
•Where do I buy stock from, what to buy, how much should I pay ?
•What are the UK regulations I need to follow?
•How easy is it to breed and what’s involved ?
•How do I keep them fit and healthy ?
•How do I find an abattoir and a butcher ?
•What meat do I get, how much, what can I do with it?
You'll find details of our courses on http://www.oaklandspigs.co.uk/courses/ (http://www.oaklandspigs.co.uk/courses/) and our book on http://www.oaklandspigs.co.uk/perfect-pigs-book/ (http://www.oaklandspigs.co.uk/perfect-pigs-book/)
Happy pig keeping !!
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Womble - thanks for your recommendation and Westberkshire, we'd be delighted to dispatch a book to you.
You could also consider a one day course, we run these from March to September, and have vacancies on our April courses, so that would be perfect timing to allow you to prepare for May, and have everything set up correctly and you brimming with confidence. The course includes
•How much space do I need, what about housing, what sort of fencing?
•What equipment do I need?
•What can I feed, how much, what will it cost ?
•Where do I buy stock from, what to buy, how much should I pay ?
•What are the UK regulations I need to follow?
•How easy is it to breed and what’s involved ?
•How do I keep them fit and healthy ?
•How do I find an abattoir and a butcher ?
•What meat do I get, how much, what can I do with it?
You'll find details of our courses on http://www.oaklandspigs.co.uk/courses/ (http://www.oaklandspigs.co.uk/courses/) and our book on http://www.oaklandspigs.co.uk/perfect-pigs-book/ (http://www.oaklandspigs.co.uk/perfect-pigs-book/)
Happy pig keeping !!
Hi oakslandspigs!
I've purchased your book earlier today, you'll probably see the information and reference it to my profile on here and realise :D. Your courses look amazing, I think we'll go ahead and book one come next pay day. It'd be nice to talk to pig farmers face to face for that much more immersive grasp of experience.
Thank you very much :).
Buffy - My mother likes the look of Kunes, and we're now fighting between Large black and Kunes. :D
Bionic - 3 pigs would certainly be a lot of meat, we're thinking if sticking to 2. so they have company, and with a household of 7, who eats plenty of meat - 2 porkers should keep us going over to the next two :).
Kind regards
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Good luck. Sounds like you're a person after my own heart. Getting all the info you can before stumbling in blindly. We kept our first ones about 3 years ago and have always kept to floppy ears. We've had British lop, saddlebacks and large blacks at different times. Always a total joy having these wonderful animals spend their life with us and always blooming tasty. We are blessed with a wonderful abbatoir nearby who are familiar with dealing with small fry like us. Hope you got one too. We don't do many but demand is high and we have to make sure we keep some for us. We do sell to neighbours but have also done some exchanging. Our new ram was paid for in pork.
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The advantages of kunes would be,
they are very docile and friendly so easy to handle and need less space.
they cost less to feed
They are not big pigs so you wont be over porked when you butcher
The downsides are,
that they take longer to grow to butchered weight but having said that you could butcher whenever you like for your own consumption.
They are a lard pig so unless you buy a lean type from meat rearing lines then you will have more fat than a commercial or bacon pig.
The standard cuts will be smaller such as the leg etc but if you sausage a larger % of the carcass then this is less of an issue and sausage might be easier to dispose of than cuts.
They like a low protein / high fibre diet so you would need some pasture for them. Though being grazers the meat tastes different as a result.
There is no right or wrong answer to the which pig question but although most pig breeds can be mixed I really wouldn't recommend mixing Kunes with any other breed as their temperament is so gentle and placid it really wouldn't be fair on them.
If you want to have a play at keeping pigs, dont want to be overwhelmed with pork, have limited space, some grazing and dont mind keeping them for 12 months try Kunes.
If you want a larger, leaner, conventional pig that you can buy as a weaner and finish in a few months then pick something else.
PS lots of people pass on older kunes that they can no longer keep so you could pick one up that is ready to butcher. Keep it for a few months to see how you get on and then butcher it. There are threads on this site detailing how adult kunes butcher out.
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We have bartered in the past for blacksmithing, haymaking, hedgecutting, grazing, hedgelaying and sheepdog training. Never underestimate the appeal of good pork!
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We look forward to reaping the rewards of raising our own pigs for their meat, an experience everyone should truly have!
Buffy - How much space would 2 Kunes need?
They sound so ideal for us!
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We have had Berkshires, Saddlebacks, OSB, Old Spots and KuneKune and I stuck with KuneKune in the end. They are a joy to keep, gentle, friendly and very tasty.
Also they won't wreck your land as much as other breeds, though they will dig a bit as youngsters. If I weren't worried about digging I would also keep Oxford Sandy and Black, they are the best flavoured pig and friendly souls.
I gave up pigs due to age and illness but with the help of a grandson will probably get a couple next spring.
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Have a look on the BKKPS site. They recomend 5 -6 an acre but that does depend on your land really. They could be in a sacrifice area in winter and pasture in spring and summer. Although often marketed as a non rooting pig they all seem to root a bit from time to time particularly in winter or in wet weather.
There is lots or really useful info on the BKKPS site along with a list of breeders if you want registered stock. If you dont then Preloved is full of unregistered many for free. Though some specify their pigs are not for meat.
The issue with unregistered ones is that they may not be pure and could have a bit of potbelly or some other breed in them. If your fattening for meat that wont be too much of a problem but if you want to breed or if you want to ensure that they have that soppy personality then buy from a breeder that has the type that you like.
You can buy weaners to raise for meat from 8 weeks old and they usually cost about £35 to £50 castrated. If you buy from a breeder who need to move their pigs on or if you were willing to take 3 you could get a good deal.
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I'd much prefer to buy from a registered breeder - I'd definitely prefer the pure bred Kunes, in fact for any breed. I'm a believer in pure breeds and keeping them going.
so it's looking like Kunes are the breed we go with, beginning of spring when the weather's warmer. We'll keep researching for time being. That'll keep us busy and and prepared much greater for the time comes to start our pig raising careers.
We're so looking forward too it! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Devonlady - sorry too hear for your reasoning of giving up the pigs - I sure hope your grandson pulls you back into it. I bet you miss it so much :)
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Great,
visit a few breeders and do your research about herds and bloodlines if you think you might want to breed as well as buying your pig keeping kit. You may have to travel to find just what you want exactly when you want it. A breeder near me has some due this month which will be available in March but I'm not sure where you are located.
I think you will enjoy them and they are a really user friendly breed to start with. If you find you like keeping pigs you can always try fattening a different breed for your next batch.
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Great,
visit a few breeders and do your research about herds and bloodlines if you think you might want to breed as well as buying your pig keeping kit. You may have to travel to find just what you want exactly when you want it. A breeder near me has some due this month which will be available in March but I'm not sure where you are located.
I think you will enjoy them and they are a really user friendly breed to start with. If you find you like keeping pigs you can always try fattening a different breed for your next batch.
We're South Lincolnshire located between the areas Spalding, Wisbech and towards the wash you got Kings' Lynn.
Breeding's definitely something we want to do, but that's only after a year or two of keeping a couple of pigs and we have that confidence in our experience to go through with it. We've never bred our chickens, we're not allowed a rooster ( miserable neighbours :D ) and we never considered incubation. We don't eat our chickens, just use them for their eggs. So breeding any animal is new to us but definitely something we wish to do!
I know we'll enjoy raising pigs, we love animals altogether - If if kunes fit the bill, we'll just keep going with them. If we decide we'd like more meat, we'll definitely look into larger breeds such as Large Blacks, Berkshire's, etc.
:)
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:wave: Good for you wanting to keep pedigrees. We are not far from Wisbech and breed British Lops and British Landrace both on the rare breed list, listed and vulnerable. Always happy to help if we can.~
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:wave: Good for you wanting to keep pedigrees. We are not far from Wisbech and breed British Lops and British Landrace both on the rare breed list, listed and vulnerable. Always happy to help if we can.~
Hello Kja,
Thank you very much, I can't believe you're close to me. I'm 15 minutes from Wisbech, otherside of Tydd Gote/St Giles.
Small world!