The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: Azzdodd on December 27, 2015, 08:26:52 pm
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This rain has basically turn the pig area into a swamp I have dug a gully by the side which seems to drain the water pretty well. But there still upto the knees in the mud I keep changing the straw in the arks but they go in once an it's wet again I'm worried about pnemonia. My thoughts were as they all cuddle at night would I be better off giving them none just the solid wood floor? There just not 'dry' in bed due to the straw getting so wet
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Thicker straw bed on top of the solid floor if they have no where dry to get out of mud your looking for problems and am sure braking one of the 5 freedoms
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That was the point I was trying to make the floor would be dryer without straw in there I use the triangle arks an can't just keep adding more or the sows won't get in
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Its a tricky one in this dreadful weather isnt it. And its hard when you are trying to do your best for them. You could put a thick layer of shavings, megasorb / equsorb on the floor under the straw?
Im not sure where the water is coming from to wet all the straw but some bedding is better than no bedding especially in this weather even if its getting damp. Could you make it thicker or place pallets in their bed with small hole wire netting tacked on then place the straw on that with shavings below to catch the moisture below.
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when I worked with outdoor pigs they used to put a heap of straw outside the ark door .... a sort of door mat I guess .... expensive I guess but might work
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Straw will take up the damp from the atmosphere hence it wont last as long in the wet conditions we currently have. Also as you say they will clean their wet, muddy legs on it every time they go in.
Are they growing pigs or sows? Obviously you wouldn't want growers to slip back.
The idea of some straw outside the door is a good one or maybe a thick layer of bark shavings. Even better would be some hard stand such as road plannings or concrete slabs.
I think arks without floors are better as long as situated somewhere high and dry. Pigs make their own bed in the earth. They are well insulated and that is what they would do in the wild. Pigs are warm enough as long as not in a draft. The problem with just providing a wooden floor is the risk of them knocking joints or slipping depending on the wood.
Recently two sows who I put to the boar wouldn't go in his ark and I was very concerned to see no sign of one of them the next day as it had been a very wet cold night. There are spare arks in the paddock and she was in none of them. Eventually I found her in a deep earth nest they had made under some branches at the far end of the paddock. Perfectly dry.
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I think the doormat idea is a good one, although you'll probably need a lot of material to start with as it'll just get absorbed into the mud until the area is fairly solid.
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When you clear out some of the old straw to make room for some dry, don't take the old stuff away but leave it in front of the door to make a doormat. It'll help dry some of the wet off them as they go in.
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When you clear out some of the old straw to make room for some dry, don't take the old stuff away but leave it in front of the door to make a doormat. It'll help dry some of the wet off them as they go in.
It was very wet when we had our weaners earlier in the year. Because of it this was the first time we have needed to clean them out. We did exactly as Sally has suggested and put everything that had been on the inside outside their door. It wasn't perfect but I think it did help and other than inviting them into my own bed I don't think there was much else we could have done for them.
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Same problem here with mud, luckily a friend was cutting down some trees etc., for a neighbour across the road. He was using a chipper to reduce the branches and had loads - and I mean loads of small chippings he wanted to get rid of. He was more than happy to pop across and spread the chippings outside the arks and where the 'trotter fall' had made matters worse in the paddock. It's spread really deep and so far has held up even after some heavy bouts of rain. It's helped save the straw in the arks no end.
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Thanks for the replys guys like you all say it's hard to judge what to do for the best....I have always out the straw by the door ways (sows often doing it too) but the rain here as been out off this world (north wales) an I am going to try the no straw its for sows who have just gone in with the boar but are in good condition I've put some rubber matting in there to save any hazards off slipping an guess it will be warmer than wooden floor....in the process off trying to sort a concrete shed for them locally...
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We've had experience of every combination of floor/no floor, straw/no straw etc etc. Our soil is very heavy and poorly draining so mud is a big problem. We've got 8 or 9 arks some with built in wooden floors, some with loose wooden floors and some with no floor. I've found I need to play it by ear and see what works best for any particular ark in any particular location. Currently we have one that has no floor at all and no straw, but is very dry inside and houses the cleanest and driest pigs we've got. At the other end of the spectrum I had to move two sows yesterday despite having a wooden floor and straw because the whole set up had become waterlogged. The liquid mud outside had built up so that it rose over the wooden floor inside. Our boar and his two current ladies have a wooden floor but no straw. I got fed up of them taking it all outside as soon as I gave them a fresh bale. They seem to be happy and dry on the wooden floor.
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If you can rig up some sort of porch arrangement for next Winter, to keep the ark entrance area dry, that would help too.
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Rubber mat a very good idea!
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we had a floorless sty with a rubber mat, shavings, then topped with straw.
personally I think more land is the answer to mud problems. or a concrete stable for extreme weather, or seasonal fattening.
ours used to roam the woods and mud wasn't an issue as the tree roots bound the ground. deep boggy mud isn't fun for anyone.
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Like Hugesey,
I have a mixture of floors and no floors but dont have a problem with mud. I have found though that my only shed with a wooden floor which is in a concrete yard suffers most because they wee in it ::)
The bed is dry but the wee soaked straw wont be helping the floor at all. I have put megasorb on the base with deep straw on top and have to keep clearing out the wet but decided that rubber matting would just trap the wee :-\
I think the floorless ones are probably best for me......or nappies for the pigs ;)
Re the pneumonia though, as long as the shed has air flow then any humidity generated should not result in congestion and respiratory problems. It tends to result from warm, humid, stuffy conditions. For me the past few days have consisted of cool temps, dry sunny days and a strong breeze which will all keep pigs breathing well. Hope that you have had the same. :) [size=78%] [/size]
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personally I think more land is the answer to mud problems. or a concrete stable for extreme weather, or seasonal fattening.
Our boar and his ladies currently have over three acres but the entrance to their housing and areas where they choose to spend a lot of time are still very, very muddy. Bringing our herd indoors is not an option as we have no buildings to bring them in to. And seasonal fattening? What would I do for an income? I'm trying to make a living all year round not just for the two or three months it might be dry here in North Wales.
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And another thing to think about. Whilst animal welfare is and should be our priority there's an awful lot of talk in the press and on the net encouraging everyone to mollycoddle their pigs. Our native breeds are tough hardy animals that are quite happy living outside and can cope with extremes of weather a lot better than we can.
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Our boar and his ladies currently have over three acres but the entrance to their housing and areas where they choose to spend a lot of time are still very, very muddy. Bringing our herd indoors is not an option as we have no buildings to bring them in to. And seasonal fattening? What would I do for an income? I'm trying to make a living all year round not just for the two or three months it might be dry here in North Wales.
Not suggesting for a minute that you personally do Hughsey .... but having to have a income is not a reason to keep any livestock in welfare 'unfriendly' accommodation ... we all have crisis weather which has to be dealt with there and then as best we can (just opened a bit of woodland for my cows due to the continuing 2 months of rain here for eg) but if you (or I ) plan to keep livestock long term then long term solutions have to be found or animals should not be kept ..........
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Our boar and his ladies currently have over three acres but the entrance to their housing and areas where they choose to spend a lot of time are still very, very muddy. Bringing our herd indoors is not an option as we have no buildings to bring them in to. And seasonal fattening? What would I do for an income? I'm trying to make a living all year round not just for the two or three months it might be dry here in North Wales.
Not suggesting for a minute that you personally do Hughsey .... but having to have a income is not a reason to keep any livestock in welfare 'unfriendly' accommodation ... we all have crisis weather which has to be dealt with there and then as best we can (just opened a bit of woodland for my cows due to the continuing 2 months of rain here for eg) but if you (or I ) plan to keep livestock long term then long term solutions have to be found or animals should not be kept ..........
I'm not suggesting for a minute that any livestock should be kept in unsuitable conditions purely for profit. (Profit? ;D ;D ;D) I was merely observing that some of the "solutions" suggested are not really doable for a lot of people. I'd love more land, preferably somewhere it doesn't rain quite as much, just as I'd love an extensive range of outbuildings but these are things that aren't likely to happen any time soon. I'm out there every day with my pigs making sure they're as comfortable as possible 365 days a year. Unfortunately rain, mud and anything else nature throws at us are just what we have to work around.
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I've always had my big shed to bring the pigs in to, in winter. It's been a godsend through some of the worst winters we've had in years. Without it I wouldn't be able to keep pigs - there's no way they (or I) would make it through til spring otherwise.
I applause all of you who do it outdoors 24/7 - wish I was in a climate and soil structure where it was feasible :(
Sadly storm Frank has battered my big shed - with winds still high and no money in the pot for repairs I'm not sure what I'll do now... Mud, rain, sleet, snow, sub-zero temperatures - can cope with them, just hate the wind :( Stay safe folks!
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Oh H.H what a nightmare!
The wind is terrible. It took down some of my fence before Christmas but fortunately I had moved the piggies just the day before. My land drains well but I too like the idea of being able to bring the animals indoors if needed. Is it too badly damaged to use?
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Still useable (has to be - I've got a sow due to deliver in the next few days!) it's just one end. The problem is that it's too windy to try to repair at the minute and it could all come off if the wind catches under the roof.
:fc: we get through til tomorrow and can get it patched up before the next storm hits.
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My sows have a winter and summer housing affair. The summer one is just a corrugated roof on top of some stakes with open sides which they seem to enjoy in the summer. The winter affair is half the size with sides, they all huddle together in this quite happily (most of the time anyway) I did insulate it with rubber matting on the sides and floor. This lasted all of two days this year before it was removed (by the pigs) and dragged outside.They now get straw every two days most of which is eaten or chewed up. My point is you can only do your best for them when the weather is as bad as this. Mud is a good insulator by the way!!
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Some of our pigsties are 40 years old and looking their age, but the concrete runs which drain into a slurry pit and thence into a slurry lagoon are an absolute joy on a day like today.
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We are in the same boat, pigs up to their knees in mud, strawing them up every day at the moment and between them eating it or wiping their feet in it (they do love a straw doormat) my 13 were losing condition daily.
I was actually out on xmas day finishing off electric fencing so I could move them into a fresh bit of pasture, got the trough and water supplies sorted and moved them 2 days ago onto fresh grass. They are as happy as the proverbial now.
The lesson we have learned is certainly next year we may not over winter pigs at all, if we do it's going to be a smaller amount. We now have 3 or 4 areas we can move them between so it should be better for them but of course all the fencing has come at a considerable cost to enable us to do that.
I too was worried about the condition of an older sow but she seems to have rallied in the last 2 days as she's now on fresh grass and not up to her knees in soupy mud! I was even praying for a bit of frost which has happily arrived today, to firm things up a bit but as they always break through the surface and sink a bit then the frost needs to be good and hard to firm up the quagmire the top pen has turned into.
Keep at it with the straw, get plenty of food into them and you shouldn't loose too much condition. Stick at it!
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We are in the same boat, pigs up to their knees in mud, strawing them up every day at the moment and between them eating it or wiping their feet in it (they do love a straw doormat) my 13 were losing condition daily.
I was actually out on xmas day finishing off electric fencing so I could move them into a fresh bit of pasture, got the trough and water supplies sorted and moved them 2 days ago onto fresh grass. They are as happy as the proverbial now.
The lesson we have learned is certainly next year we may not over winter pigs at all, if we do it's going to be a smaller amount. We now have 3 or 4 areas we can move them between so it should be better for them but of course all the fencing has come at a considerable cost to enable us to do that.
I too was worried about the condition of an older sow but she seems to have rallied in the last 2 days as she's now on fresh grass and not up to her knees in soupy mud! I was even praying for a bit of frost which has happily arrived today, to firm things up a bit but as they always break through the surface and sink a bit then the frost needs to be good and hard to firm up the quagmire the top pen has turned into.
Keep at it with the straw, get plenty of food into them and you shouldn't loose too much condition. Stick at it!
Sounds familiar, i've got two gilts due and was out all day christmas eve building arks and finishing fencing for a new pen for them, was very glad to get them both moved that afternoon. Enabled me to relax over christmas.
Just got to finish more arks and some electric fencing to move the other three sows that i had to leave behind. Feel very sorry for them but they have dry strawed arks above the mud line
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Well I managed to get some indoor area for the pigs sorted for the pigs list in time 50x50 shed its not how I like my pigs kept but they are certainly happier just in time! Moved the sows Sunday on farrowed Monday night one farrowed Tuesday night 13 & 14 in each! Next year if the rain comes again they will be moved inside again
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I think its always a juggling act and we all like them out and about as much as possible but it sounds like you did the right thing at the right time.
And congratulations! But piglets in January...brrrrr ;)