The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: Fleecewife on December 03, 2015, 11:23:48 pm
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OK I'm an eegit, but I really didn't know about this. We had two burst hot water bottles within a couple of weeks, so they were banned from our bed. However, our bedroom is freezing, so I wanted something. Those microwaveable wheat bags seemed to be the answer.
All seemed well at first, but then I woke up one morning with a sore foot, which was red and swollen. Mmm, it went away on it's own after about a week though so I didn't think much more about it. Then earlier this week it happened again. At first it was a small area affected, on the other foot, but gradually the swelling has spread to my whole foot, which is tight and red, and a bit sore.
So I thought about the wheat bag - it should be at a low temp if microwaved for the correct time, on the correct power, but clearly mine was causing some sort of damage. I began to wonder about the time my skin was exposed to the heat - both times I had slept very deeply, and I dragged up the expression 'low temperature burns' from the depths of my memory. Google is very helpful at answering obscure questions, so now I know that not only are low temp burns a fact but they are frequently caused by......microwaved wheat bags, and especially so on the feet. Apparently long exposure to a heat source above 44C can cause a low temp burn, which can be quite deep.
There are various research studies about this very subject, so why on Earth are wheat bags sold without giant warnings all over them?
So, my advice (to myself) is to heat the thing for only half the recommended time, and to kick it out of the bed before I go to sleep.
It's snowed this evening, so covering my burnt foot with snow is lovely - now that I've stopped ;D
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Any temperature above normal body temperature can cause burns if applied for long enough. Same goes for below normal temp.
Hot water bottles should not be applied directly to the skin, much the same as frozen peas for a strain/sprain.
Burns are caused by contact with extremes of temperature, hot or cold, which cause tissue destruction.
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Would it help to make the wheatie hottie a woolly jacket? I always have a jacket on my (water) hottie, precisely because otherwise it burns. And added bonus, the wool acts as insulation, so keeps it warm for longer.
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Also older wheat bags are worse as they can ignite. The wheat dries out with use and becomes flamable.
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I always shake them about after heating... to even up the heat... microwaves always create a hot spot somewhere... and I like the idea of a cover.. I would always have a hot water bottle covered so imagine the same for wheat bags would be a good idea... and don't put the cover in the microwave.
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So, my advice is.......... to kick it out of the bed before I go to sleep.
That's what Mrs Womble does to me once I've warmed her up, and hence outlived my usefulness! ;D
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When I was a mere lad many years ago (violin playing in background) and slept in an unheated bedroom with single glazing and the frost made paisely patterns on the inside of the glass, my dear mother gave me a stone hot water bottle (Boots own from probably the 1930's!) but it was always wrapped up in a thick towel first so as not to cause burns (and to soak up any leakage from the stone screw top sealed with a rubber washer). It worked brilliantly, the worst part was getting up in the mornings shivering and seeing your breath hanging in the air!
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Our how about one of those copper bed warming pans on a long wooden stick that the house varlet pushes around between the sheets to warm the bed through before you get into it ....?
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or..... you could just simply buy an electric blanket ;D
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I hate electric blankets WBF. When I was young some friends burned their house down from using one - must have been faulty but I wouldn't ever sleep in a bed with one - I'd not sleep for worrying I was about to be incinerated :D I like the idea of the warming pan (although you need hot coals and our wood burner isn't always alight and you need a servant to swish them around the bed :thumbsup:). I am old enough to remember them, and the stone bottles (in fact we still have one in the attic), and the Jack Frost on the windows, the frozen potty and all :roflanim:
But now we're getting on we really love being WARM, but also safe.
My wheat bag does have a cover, but that's a great idea Sally to knit one. We always had covers on the hot water bottles - Mr F's is Babe :pig: and he's most annoyed he's not allowed to have it any more ::) :tired:
Today my foot is a bit worse, with oedema spreading up my leg, but I don't think it's bad enough to worry about. It's a great excuse though to sit about with my leg up. I can't spin, but I can knit.......
So thank you all for the info and ideas. And Womble, you always make my day with those comments you pop in :roflanim: :love: :D
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the worst part was getting up in the mornings shivering and seeing your breath hanging in the air!
Been there, had the chilblains :(. it was the ice on the sheet from my breath that I remember. That was at Moss Side Croft, New Deer.
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Bedsocks? :innocent:
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Ma would put house bricks in the range oven, wrap them up in pieces of old blanket and put them in our beds. They were lovely and warm but too uncomfortable to cuddle up to, we had sisters for that! A bit of a shame maybe that todays children won't see "Jack Frost" windows.
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They might if they lived in our house - why change a 500 year old tradition, eh?
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Bedsocks? :innocent:
Yep, I already wear those :thumbsup:
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The only thing I can think of is extra quilts or blankets, maybe wrap, loosely, around your feet a warm woolly blanket along with your thick bed socks and your feet will be nice and toasty. Also invest in some lovely thick pyjamas and you won't want to get out :D
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The only thing I can think of is extra quilts or blankets, maybe wrap, loosely, around your feet a warm woolly blanket along with your thick bed socks and your feet will be nice and toasty. Also invest in some lovely thick pyjamas and you won't want to get out :D
Haha :D - I never do want to get out of my bed WBF - I'm definitely a night owl. Yep, I've got the thick PJs (plus a vest), plus the bedsocks, plus an exothermic husband who's better than any other source of heat, we have a silk duvet designed for winter, plus two lovely woollen blankets woven from our own sheep wool and a woollen under blanket. I don't even open the window at night in the winter any more, just the door as I don't like to feel shut in. Poor Mr F cooks while I pile on the warmth - then I get too hot and kick the lot off - then I freeze............
I draw the line at having the central heating on at night. I really hate a hot bedroom - I can never sleep in hotels. In the depths of a very cold winter with the temp down to minus double figures, we keep the log burner in all night which takes the worst of the chill off.
You're persuading me that I don't need any external added heat. It would be safer for me to give up on the wheat bag altogether, and rely on all the cosy alternatives.
But I still don't understand why these bags can be sold with no warnings ???
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I've been doing a bit of googling and it does seem that there should be more warnings on these products. I read in one piece that there is a BS Kite mark for them, which entails including safety information on the packaging, but of course that doesn't help people buying non-kitemarked products.
I also did a bit of googling for burns relating to the use of hot water bottles, and it seems to me that the sort of burn you've sustained does also happen with those. However, they are rare (both with wheaty bags and conventional hot water bottles) unless the person has some other underlying condition which makes them less likely to realise that their skin is burning. (Neuropathy and diabetes being the two most commonly quoted. The deep sleep of a tired smallholder didn't get a mention... :D)
In looking at wheaty bags, most seem aimed at use for pain relief, and for cold feet other than in bed. So I do wonder whether they are not really intended for use in bed? They mostly say the heat will dissipate over 45 minutes or so, whereas of course in bed they are insulated and the heat will last longer. There are reports of bags combusting in bed, due to having been overheated and then put into the bed, where the insulation of the bedding prevents the heat escaping.
Bags which fit easily onto the turntable of the microwave shouldn't get overheated except through operator error. There was one tragic story where a lady had bought her mum a wheaty bag to use instead of her hot water bottle; the daughter had been worried about her mum having an accident filling the hottie with her shaking hands, so thought the wheat bag would be safer. However the mum seems to have overheated it, it set the bed on fire and the mum died in hospital the next day.
One article did mention that many of these bags are too large for the usual microwave, and may not turn properly because they're wedged against the sides of the oven. This can caused localised hot spots, and these can in turn cause combustion when insulated by bedding.
On the subject of insulating bedding... I have found that my hot water bottle can create excessive heat now that I have all wool bedding - duvet, pillows and mattress cover. The latter seems to reflect the heat back into the hottie, and I can find it too hot to put my feet underneath it (even with a fleecey cover on it - must knit it a woolly one.) So I wonder whether in your case, Fleecewife, the woollen underblanket, the silk duvet and woollen overblankets do the same thing, and can create enough heat in the wheatie bag to cause these burns.
I found guidance on using hot water bottles, which included the following tips:
- replace hot water bottles after two years
- use a cover
- fill with hot but not boiling water
- fill only to 2/3 full
- squeeze the air out before fixing the stopper
All of which, except the first, I do do - and I've only ever had leaks with hotties that were more than 5 years old.
(Actually I do use just-boiled water, but I put in a cupful of hot-not-boiling water first, and top up with just-boiled.)
If you definitely don't want to go back to using a water bottle, then either reducing the heat in the wheatie bag, as you did suggest upthread, or get an electric blanket that is safe for all-night use and get it tested every 12 months (which is what we should all do with our electric blankets - in fact, our local Age Concern arranges for free testing to be offered at our local fire station every year.) My mum has an electric blanket on the bed I use when I visit that you can set to be on for an hour, so you put it on 10-15 minutes before you go to bed and it'll turn itself off after you fall asleep.
And, having read about people who did burn themselves on wheatie and water hotties, if your leg isn't improving by Monday morning, I wish you would get it looked at... :hug:
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Trust me Sally, I'm a nurse :roflanim: No, it's definitely less painful and swollen today, and there's no sign of the kind of damage which would make the deep tissues need to be excised. If it suddenly gets worse then I will get it looked at, promise.
You've been looking at the same web info as me ;D, although I also found a research project based in Adelaide. In that one, one of the causes of low temp burns was 'car seat', which must mean a heated seat, so some poor soul burnt himself on the bum :o
And yes, nothing mentioned exhausted smallholders, or even folk with heart conditions and very poor circulation - that's why my feet get so cold, but also I suspect it's one of the reasons the wheat bag caused the damage.
You're right too about the bags heating up, or retaining their heat when all cocooned in wool etc, but mine was sold specifically for use in bed, but the only warning was to heat for the correct length of time, and to allow to cool completely before reheating.
It's frustrating though when all this is known, but the bags are seen as a safe alternative to hotties. The hotties we had that leaked, one was just over a year old, and the other was about 2 days old :o On examination, it had a small defect, where the rubber had bubbled in manufacture, and that had given way in use. Both times the water filled MY side of the bed, so in spite of me having to deal with it in the night, Mr F didn't twitch, and knew nothing about it. Typical ::).
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Trust me Sally, I'm a nurse :roflanim:
I did not know that. :-[ :dunce: (Or, more likely, had forgotten - which is worse :-[)
No, it's definitely less painful and swollen today, and there's no sign of the kind of damage which would make the deep tissues need to be excised. If it suddenly gets worse then I will get it looked at, promise.
Glad to hear that - and thanks :-*
even folk with heart conditions and very poor circulation
That was what I was wondering about ;)
Well, the only other thing I can think of is to make yourself a thrummed 'foot pillowcase' of wool+alpaca, preheat the inside of the 'foot pillowcase' before getting into bed and slide your (also prewarmed) feet into the 'foot pillowcase' to make a cosy extra cocoon for your feet.
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Or get a whippet, best hottie I know.