The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Goats => Topic started by: ballingall on April 17, 2010, 12:12:02 am
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Hi,
I haven't been around much over the past week or so. My neices Becky (12) and Hannah (10 1/2) have been staying since last Wednesday so that they would be here when their goats kidded. Their goat Comet was due on Friday the 9th, and Buttercup was due on the Sunday 11th. And the days went on and on, and we got to Sunday, and no-one had kidded. We also had Lonicera my mum's goat who was due on the Friday too.
Finally on Sunday, Alex and I took the girls out to Livingston for lunch, we were sat down having just ordered, when the phone goes and my mum announces that Buttercup is kidding. So we gobble our food, and rush home, but we are just a tiny bit too late and she had had twin males. We have kept one of these, but we will look to sell him probably, and he is called Thistle.
And then in the evening, my sister (Becky and Hannah's mum) her husband and the twins came over to see the new kids, when we realised Lonicera was kidding. She didn't have an easy time, although a lot better than last year, but she had one boy and one girl. We have kept the girl and she is called Luma.
And finally on Tuesday, 4 days after she was due, on checking Comet at 6am, we found her starting, so everyone was hauled out of bed to see her give birth to a huge female kid. It is named Cupid, continuing their theme of naming their goats after Santa's reindeer!
So with having my neices over, by the time we finish up outside with the animals, and I get got the girls sorted out, let them watch tv for 1/2 an hour and finally packed off to bed, it would be time to feed the kids again, after which I was just falling into bed, instead of coming on here!
Beth
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A wee picture of my babies...
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/ballingall/DSCF3496.jpg)
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/ballingall/DSCF3474.jpg)
And my neices kid Cupid.
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/ballingall/DSCF3501.jpg)
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Beth they are gorgeous and so contented looking. Looking at this makes all your hard work well worth it.
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Beautiful!!
love the names!
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I'm going to follow suit and try post pics of my new babies
http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac232/leebastow/photo-12.jpg
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Beth, I'm puzzled! When you say you are keeping one of Buttercups male kids, but may sell Thistle later - what happened to the other one?
We have kept one of these, but we will look to sell him probably, and he is called Thistle.
and about Lonicera's two she had one boy and one girl. We have kept the girl and she is called Luma.
Presumably from the photos you still actually have these, they haven't died?
Sorry if I'm being thick, I was up too early this morning. Must get off to that dog show now- glad it's only 10 mins away!(Alva)
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beth, they're lovely, especially Cupid!
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And yours Lee, does s/he have a name yet?!
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Lee your wee one is cute too :)
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Beth, I'm puzzled! When you say you are keeping one of Buttercups male kids, but may sell Thistle later - what happened to the other one?
We have kept one of these, but we will look to sell him probably, and he is called Thistle.
and about Lonicera's two she had one boy and one girl. We have kept the girl and she is called Luma.
Presumably from the photos you still actually have these, they haven't died?
Sorry if I'm being thick, I was up too early this morning. Must get off to that dog show now- glad it's only 10 mins away!(Alva)
Annie, we don't always keep all the kids we have, especially if they are males. We always keep females, because they can be sold without too much difficulty, but there is not such a big market for male kids, unless they are really well bred. Which is why we have kept a couple to sell as they are well bred. It is not something we like doing, and in the past few years we have had people looking for castrated males as pets, so haven't had the problem of too many male kids.
Beth
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That's not what I asked really. I was confused about the way you put it - I presume you still have them all at the moment. What age do you sell them?
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Beth, I have just pm-d you re orphan lambs. Will be online for a wee while longer. Anke
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That's not what I asked really. I was confused about the way you put it - I presume you still have them all at the moment. What age do you sell them?
Sorry Annie, I didn't realise I hadn't fully answered. No we don't still have them all, two of the males have been put to sleep. We have the female kid from Lonicera, called Luma, but not her male kid, and we only kept one of Buttercup's males. Lonicera's male wasn't worth keeping for breeding, and as Buttercup is not fully proven yet, being only a first kidder, we only kept one. We could raise them for meat, but to be frank a male kid needs a lot of milk, and we could raise 3 orphan lambs on the same amount of milk it would take to raise one male kid.
Beth
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What gorgeous goats - the white one appears to have really long ears!! Is that everyone kidded now?!!!
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In theory, yes everyone has kidded. In practice, we still have Bronwyn. She was pregnant twice last year, due once in February, and then again in june, but she readsorbed the kids both times. She was mated in October, but eventually came back in season in February, so we put her just to the Anglo-Nubian in the hopes of getting her to kid. She is a British Toggenburg, so the kids will be crosses, but if she is due it will be in July!
But she is 3 now and has never kidded, not sure she ever will to be honest, which is a shame, because she is a lovely animal.
Beth
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Fingers crossed she holds her kids this time.
We should have had two due in June, one a pygmy, and the other one of the smaller sannans, both by our pygmy billy. I think the pygmy was in kid, but think she reabsorbed too. Hard to tell with pygmys, they are short and fat all the time!! Quite capable of breeding twice a year too, if allowed!!
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Lol, short and fat, maybe I should just describe myself as a pygmy too!
Are you keeping the pygmy male away from the girls then now? I think kids twice a year would be a bit much. I find once a year more than enough to cope with.
Beth
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Yes, he has had different girls with him, since. Also got his castrated son, Barnie, as company. I am fortunate that we have a selection of goats, male and female to keep each other company. Although they have their little groups, and some groups do not get on with the others ......Paddy the big Alpine billy does not like any of the goats unless they are female!!!
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Funny, my big AN male is like that! He hates other males, unless they are quite young and not a challange to him. Poor Carrick is going to have to move in beside him soon.
Beth
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I'm finished kidding now!
Only had 2 pregnant this time as my AN billy snuffed it. He did leave three very gorgeous kids, 2 of which are boys so will be castrated and eaten later. The wee girl, I'll keep for my ever increasing stock!!!
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Beth, if you don't mind me asking... do you get a vet a put them to sleep, and does it cost, say the same as an old dog?!
And how do you then go about the 'disposal' of the kids?
I know the regs, its the practicalities I'd like to understand....
Cheers
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Regarding the collection, its exactly the same as if the kids are stillborn, they should still be collected b the abbatoir, which all costs money of course!
Regarding the other, different methods are used, some not very pleasant. Some people drown male kids in a bucket of very cold water virtually straight away, other people hit them on the head first, then drop them in a bucket of water to make sure. I have a friend who has a humane killer, but I don't know if he ever used that on his newborns or not. There are also people who take them to the vet, and yes it costs much the same as having a dog or rabbit put to sleep.
I have said before, and will do so again, that I am very lucky in that mum is a trained vet, and that also our vets are very, very good, and will let her have the medication she needs for the kids. They wouldn't normally let someone have it, but because she is qualified their are happy. Actually it's remarkable we have built up such a good relationship with our vet as we only lived here 5 years. However, we do still also go to our old vet occasionally.
Beth
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Regarding the collection, its exactly the same as if the kids are stillborn, they should still be collected b the abbatoir, which all costs money of course!
does the abbatoir have to collect, or can you take them?
and what paper work is needed? and who provides it?
I've tried looking on DEFRA but it gave me a headache and feelings of inadequecy!
as you say, its great that your mum is a vet.
I asked our vet (who are, on the whole brilliant) if we could administer the vaccinations to our dog, as she is nervous aggressive & we hadn't had her that long from the rescue. they couldn't remove her stitches after spaying, but we could (husband trained her to roll on her back on the command "itchy nipples!")
they were adamant that we couldn't, causing her great distress & setting back her socialisation .... yet the day before had given me 6 syringes set up with ivomectin for the pigs - first time we'd done it!!
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We usually take our dead goats to the abbatoir, but they do have a collection service. Not sure they would be happy to drive over here for a new born kid though. Charge £15 for a goat, but when we took the pygmy the other week, he charged me a tenner cos it was small (it was very small in fact!) so I would say they would want a tenner at least.
people used to get a big wide necked bottle, put some chloform on a cotton wool pad, and then put the kids head in, and it would just go to sleep and not wake up.
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I don't actually know if they will take delivery! Have never thought to ask that! They give you a reciept thing- no need for a movement form as the animal is dead. Not sure if you would need a movement form if you were taking a live goat to the knackers to be destroyed. Our knackers/disposal men will put down (using a bolt gun) when they collect if necessary.
Beth
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thankyou....
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I did not get a receipt for any goat I have taken, they did not check ear tags either. That applies to the dead ones, and the couple of live ones we took too (which were not going to recover). They just took the cash ......I am surprised with all the paperwork we are expected to fill in, that something does not need to be recorded at their end.
Same with the horses, he collected, I paid cash, no paperwork, I still have the passports for all my departed horses.