The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: Rosemary on November 20, 2015, 03:18:21 pm
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This is NOT intended to be controversial. We don't have badgers here, in fact, I think the population of badgers in Scotland is relatively modest - so I have no personal experience of badgers. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen a badger in real life, alive or dead.
So this is just a random question - why are badgers a protected species?
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Knee jerk response to persecution, badger baiting etc when the numbers were very low. There are so many here there are new tracks through hedges and holes in pig wire appearing daily in some of my fields. They seem to prefer to smash a new hole than go two feet to the left and use the one they smashed last night. Considering electric only as it seems pointless using wire.
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Badgers are common in this part of Scotland. 3 active sets within a mile of my home.
They do dig under my fences and I have just about given up blocking the holes up as they just dig them out again. Am also considering electric fencing but that would be an expensive solution.
I think they are protected as their numbers were once low but numbers are not low here.
They do not seem to be a problem, although a few get killed on the road each year, and am not aware of them taking lambs, although foxes would be blamed for this anyway.
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As Me said, a daft knee jerk reaction. And once protected its almost impossible to remove that status.
They are a real pest and numbers are huge. They do a hell of a lot of environmental damage and defiantly kill lambs!
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Ripped the side of my neighbour's (very sturdy) chicken house and killed 23 hens. Unfortunately the general population buy into the gruff-but-kindly Badger as portrayed in the Wind in the Willows and clearly haven't had an encounter with those claws. Only UK wildlife to prey on hedgehogs. What about poor Mrs Tiggywinkle, eh? A local farmer found one eating a downer cow from the udder inwards.
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Badgers knocked over my Dads beehives and ate the brood and honey.
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we have tons of badgers here in S Lanarkshire and we had loads in East Lothian as well. I am pretty sure its what steals my chicken food and I saw a massive one at my driveway gate the other night when I got home from work. We see them regularly-more often than foxes.
Local farmer who lambs outside reckons he loses lambs to badgers every year-especially newborns lambed by walls/hedges for shelter. Badgers eat the belly first (so I'm told) as opposed to foxes who remove them or the main parts of them unless disturbed. He doesn't particularly dislike them but thinks there are too many. I know of four large sets locally.
I'd once seen a badger in Sussex about 27 years ago and that was it in England-seen lots now.
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We are over run with them. As other posters have said they will rip the side off your hen hut to get in. They do take lambs and they can dig up a field overnight. They are hit on the road regularly here and farmers with machinery have to take care near setts as there are cases of machines falling through into them. My son and his friend were chased for some way along a path by an adult badger.
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It has it's roots in the early 1800's and the social reform movement. The prevailing idea was that the prevention of cruelty to animals was required to preserve the fabric and morals of society. Once protection was in place it was consolidated and strengthened over the years with little thought for whether there was any real need to continue the protection regime.
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No, they banned it as it often led to drunkenness and rioting - they couldn't care less about the bull (I think it was bull baiting banned first) or badger!
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You are correct that it was bull baiting banned first (in 1822) but it wasn't just to prevent rioting and drinking, it was more about how participation in such activities compromised the morals of those engaged in it - sad git that I am I covered the history of wildlife legislation in my doctorate ::) I have always thought that William Windhams's quote on the Cruelty to Animals Bill of 1809 that it should be entitled "A Bill for Harassing and Oppressing Certain Classes Among the Lower Orders of His Majesty's Subjects" is quite apposite for much of today's legislation
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:carols: We wont split hares (sillegal ;)) :dog: :cow: :dog: wheres a bullbaiting emoji when you need one?
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Over run with Badgers in Scotland as you don't tend to see them don't mean they are not there. I have never seen one except dead ones on the road but you see there signs everywhere. (Although my other half has seen them -up early in the morning) In today's Scottish Farmer a letter from somebody asking the same question as they had eaten a ewe lambs udder and consequently the ewe lamb had to be put down. I would say huge shortage of hedgehogs now cos too many badgers. I had a friend who wanted to rehome hedgehogs from wildlife hospital her surroundings were perfect for hedgehogs but they couldn't be released on her farm as there were too many badgers! The damage they do to poultry is horrendous and the henhouse and fencing I am waiting to see what will happen if a main road near us starts to collapse as there's badgers a tunneling underneath it!
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[member=35918]Me[/member] I am curious now about your background as I don't often come across people who know about this area ( I need a nosey old git emoticon here ;D )
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You are correct that it was bull baiting banned first (in 1822) but it wasn't just to prevent rioting and drinking, it was more about how participation in such activities compromised the morals of those engaged in it - sad git that I am I covered the history of wildlife legislation in my doctorate ::) I have always thought that William Windhams's quote on the Cruelty to Animals Bill of 1809 that it should be entitled "A Bill for Harassing and Oppressing Certain Classes Among the Lower Orders of His Majesty's Subjects" is quite apposite for much of today's legislation
Interesting that fox hunting and grouse shooting wasn't banned too. :sofa:
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Fox hunting wasn't banned because the push for legislation came from bodies such as the RSPCA who were funded by the upper classes. Cruelty to animals was seen as a problem of the lower classes who needed their morals improved by the social reformers ::)
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The thing is what can you do? No matter what you try to do to turn the rule around you have idiots like Brian may who do not understand, or care, about the environment (personally I think he does it for the publicity) and its the lack of care or consideration for not only the farmers and livestock but also the whole eco system. You hear scientists (who're another complete joke as well) who talk about balancing the eco system and how important it all is and yet they refuse to deal with a massive problem. The government would save a lot of money if they just gave permission to the farmers to kill the badgers their own way, also it would save money on the badger cull and the stupid people who are rights for badgers wouldn't be able to stop you from doing it because they wouldn't know when you where doing it or where. Here is my proposal, give farmers the permission to kill badgers on their own land, but at the end of every days hunting they have to put the carcasses in a pile and then someone counts them and brings the numbers back to the government about how many are killed, that way it will be monitored so that the population isn't completely wiped out, but is kept at a low level. Also take them off protected species list, same as the gulls. Isn't it weird how everyone loves the badgers and hates the gulls and yet they're both protected species? Another step would be to get rid of the people who work for the RSPCA and train new recruits properly to deal with animal cruelty and they have to abide by the laws of the land, after all they where created by people who genuinely cared about animals, not the idiots who run it today, blackmailing people with sob stories to donate, I would rather give to the blue cross than to them, at least they look after the animals. These people need to be controlled to stop them from harassing the people who keep animals, maybe who are limping slightly.
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The government would save a lot of money if they just gave permission to the farmers to kill the badgers their own way, also it would save money on the badger cull and the stupid people who are rights for badgers wouldn't be able to stop you from doing it because they wouldn't know when you where doing it or where. Here is my proposal, give farmers the permission to kill badgers on their own land
Steady on, that sounds like common sense..........we don't do that :-J
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[member=35918]Me[/member] I am curious now about your background as I don't often come across people who know about this area ( I need a nosey old git emoticon here ;D )
I may or may not have completed more than one animal welfare related degrees and be an animal rights nut job. I may or may not own a sharp spade a pack of terriers and go everywhere dressed like a paramilitary - you may never know which is true ;)
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Interesting that fox hunting and grouse shooting wasn't banned too. :sofa:
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YOU said not controversial!!!! :huff:
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I may or may not have completed more than one animal welfare related degrees and be an animal rights nut job. I may or may not own a sharp spade a pack of terriers and go everywhere dressed like a paramilitary - you may never know which is true ;)
I think we need a poll to see which one everybody believes ;D .
Any other suggestions for what Me is really like :innocent:
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When I was young, we hardly saw any badgers. Now, I do not bat an eyelid, as they go past me in the field when I am feeding the livestock. Well, yes, I do bat an eyelid the following morning, when they have pushed their way under the stock netting as they insist on going over the same place every night.
I never really bothered about them, until the farm we used to have became victim of TB, along with a number of other farms in the area. Farms here are now on 6 monthly checks for the cattle.
What really interests me is someone who had signs in her garden proclaiming to save the badgers, and saying they did not have TB has now trained to trap and inject badgers for TB, so maybe she has changed her mind, I don't know.
What I do know, is we are over run in this area with badgers. I assume it is still illegal to shoot them, but am sure some farmers were given a licence to shoot some to cull the numbers when the TB issue arose When someone shot a badger in my field last winter, the one I suspected of getting in my bantam house and killing them, I reported it to the Police, really because I was concerned about my livestock. The Police did not seem to be aware about the protected status of the badger.
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When someone shot a badger in my field last winter, the one I suspected of getting in my bantam house and killing them, I reported it to the Police, really because I was concerned about my livestock. The Police did not seem to be aware about the protected status of the badger.
Sorry, don't understand your post, you asked the man to shoot the suspect then reported it? Or you were concerned the gunman would shoot your stock?
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When someone shot a badger in my field last winter, the one I suspected of getting in my bantam house and killing them, I reported it to the Police, really because I was concerned about my livestock. The Police did not seem to be aware about the protected status of the badger.
Sorry, don't understand your post, you asked the man to shoot the suspect then reported it? Or you were concerned the gunman would shoot your stock?
I think, I sort of remember the post, that they were not happy about people coming onto their land with guns, especially without permission. I think it was the middle of the night also when it was shot. They found it dead and as far as am aware I don't think they had asked anyone to shoot it, they just found it dead on their land, but where concerned about people coming onto the land at night with guns and without permission, hence why they reported it to the police, not for the badgers safety but their own. Tell me if am wrong someone
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I think you are right WBF.
Persons going on your land without permission (England) is simple trespass, when damage is done to fences etc., it's criminal trespass, however, when any firearm/weapon is in the posession of or used by the trespasser it's then armed trespass - a very serious offence in law. I'm surprised the police wern't much more interested!
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Yes, someone came onto my land, right next to the goat arks, and my sheep, and shot the badger. Much as they cause me problems, I do not hold a gun licence, and even if I did, I would not have shot it. To be honest, I do think that one had been in close contact with humans, because it would be there every night, same time, and not move far.....so it was an easy target. Two people besides me knew the badger had been in my hen house, and I am pretty certain neither of those did the deed.