The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Introduce yourself => Topic started by: Nelster on April 16, 2010, 11:20:44 am
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Hi all Neslter here.
My wife and I recently - after many months of harrasing our local farmer - managed to agree to rent an acre of land which is just behind our house (in Wiltshire). We have moved our house chickens onto the field successfully and have planted various vegetables in our quest to provide as much food as possible for ourselves, our next move is livestock !
We have many many questions, concerns, worries etc etc and I'm sure will be posting often looking for any help we can find !!
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Hello from a beautiful day in Fife, what livestock would you like? :)
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Thanks for the reply JamesLindsey.
Ideally we would like to keep just a couple of sheep and possibly some ducks or geese. Our master plan is to get store lambs for fattening (at the moment Wiltshire Horns to avoid shearing), then possibly to run a couple or so geese on the same piece of land over winter to graze and fertalize the ground.
There is a small copse on the land that would make an ideal pig pen - but thats about our plan Z at the moment.
We really are loking to maximise food production from our paltry -see what I did there :) - one acre
Our main concern at the moment is making sure we are 'set-up' properly. Our friendly farmer has said he's happy for us to use his movement book etc, but I'm not sure if this is 'allowed' or if we need to get our own holding number, movement book etc, and also if we need to consult local planning ? or local health ? or something like that to see what animals we are 'allowed'
The land we are renting is a corner of an already registered big farm which is obviously designated agrucultural land
Help ?
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Hi and welcome Nelster. I have been considering doing the same - renting from farmer. I was also wondering what the complications would be if I never got my own parish holding/stock numbers - there may be movement restrictions passed either way but maybe not if you had your own numbers.
I'm sure some of the more experienced people will be along soon. :wave:
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Hello and welcome from Devon. :)
I'm not sure of the answers to the CPH, herd/flock numbers and movement book. It would be worth contacting your local Animal Health/Trading Standards. They are very helpful and would rather you contact them before you do anything.
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It's grand weather here in Gy Nelstar welcome to the group
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Hello from me in South Lanarkshire :wave:
I was looking into getting some geese myself, until I discovered that the recommended stocking is about 6 geese per acre (personally for that much space I'd rather have pigs ;)) For maximum food production pigs are definately the way to go (but I'm maybe slightly biased ;) :pig: :pig: :pig:)
I think it's best to have your own CPH and herd numbers - that way you would be contacted if there was ever a problem. The forms are a bit of a nightmare to fill in though and if you're not sure how long this rental is likely to last it'd be easier to use the farmers existing ones (though how legal this is, I'm not sure ::))
As for the animals you'd be allowed to keep - I don't think there's any restriction on normal cows, sheep, pigs etc - obviously if you were looking at wild boar (possibly ostritch too ???) there is a need for a 'dangerous animal licence' :o
You'd only need to contact planning if you were putting up any permanent structures (think brick built or having foudations) - movable arcs, field shelters etc should be fine.
Hope this helps and good luck with your venture - keep us posted with how you are getting on.
Karen x
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Hi welcome, go for pigs :pig: :pig: :pig: :pig:
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There is a small copse in the land, which would make a perfect pig area, but are there any restrictions on keeping them, ie noise, pollution etc, do you have to dispose of the erm 'waste' in any particular way ?
Are pigs 'neighbour friendly' ?
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No they are NOT, they are smelly things!
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They do have a certain aroma ;) But providing you're not overstocking and clearing any piles of poo (great for the compost heap) it can be kept to a minimum - when they're outside with plenty of space you hardly notice it.
Neighbour friendly ? It depends ;) You've got to make sure the fencing is robust (neighbours won't be happy if piggies eat all their beautiful garden plants) and as long as you feed them at the same time every day and make sure they've got plenty of water, they'll not make too much noise (but be late at your peril :o)
Doganjo's not met my pigs yet - or she'd change her mind in a jiffy ;) ;D ;D ;D
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They are like Marmite you love them or hate them and much more use than an average dog Sooner have pig pooh on my shoes than some of this that most dogs and dog owners leave behind around here Horrid messy things good for now't Oh Annie love ;D ;D ;D :farmer:
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I love them :love: :pig: :love:
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They are like Marmite you love them or hate them and much more use than an average dog Sooner have pig pooh on my shoes than some of this that most dogs and dog owners leave behind around here Horrid messy things good for now't Oh Annie love ;D ;D ;D :farmer:
Can't argue with that, Wiz. But we have a new scheme up here. Every responsible dog owner has more than the requisite number of poo bags in their pocket, and if they see an owner starting to move away from a new deposit they go up and smilingly offer a bag in a very friendly manner. You wouldn't think it would work and you might get a load of 's*&t' said to you, but in fact it seems to be going fine. Perhaps because we have LOADS of red bins around here.
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Doganjo's not met my pigs yet - or she'd change her mind in a jiffy ;) ;D ;D ;D
Not YET?????? Not EVER!!! ;) ;D ;D
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Hi and welcome. Contact Defra about the holding number. I suspect you'll need one of your own as you will be the keeper of the holding. The paperwork's not too bad for the number of livestock and livestock movements you're going to have so don't worry about it. For sheep, pigs or cattle, you'll need a herd / flock number from Animal Health.
I'd agree with the pig idea. We keep three weaners on 2 pens 30ft x 40 ft from April to October; one for us, two to go. By the following April, ina normal year, the pens are recovered for the new intake. Keeping animals that aren't going to be there all year ie fattening lambs or pigs, rather than breeding stock will give the land a rest and save you buying winter feed and putting up shelters, thus keeping costs, particularly capital costs, down.
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Thanks Rosemary.
As always answers lead to more questions ...
So if you keep 3 pigs, one for you, 2 to go - roughly - very roughly, and if you dont mind me asking - how much to you get for the 2 'to go' pigs ?
And an unrelated question; do i need to register with the beloved HMRC as an enterprise, particularly if you are getting an income for the 'to go' pigs above ? Should I register with HMRC anyway even though I'm expecting to use the produce for myself ? Should I infact try to get an income from the holding, I'm not expecting there to be enough produce to sell anything but am I underselling my potential (lol) !
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Hi from Clackmannan.... I love pigs...great with stuffing and apple sauce... :wave:
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ooh, tough questions already!!
I'll just say "hello and welcome" and let more knowledgeable folk answer....
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Hello Annie love Pleased you took it as I intended.Little bit I believe.There is nothing better than a well kept dog.Look at your show dogs look at Tim's sheep dog He couldn't manage his flock without Blu.BUT my word Annie there is nothing worse than one that does as it likes out of control is there?It's a wonder someone hasn't been hurt round here dog no lead and mostly no collar runs across the road through the traffic Ugh!!!!! ??? ::) :D :farmer:
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Hey up How's the bit that caused me to call you Grannie Annie? I hope baby is well and growing fine :wave: Love from Kath and George XXX
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So if you keep 3 pigs, one for you, 2 to go - roughly - very roughly, and if you dont mind me asking - how much to you get for the 2 'to go' pigs ?
I dont know what rules you would need to follow in UK, but I get 7 euros a kilo for meat and around 10 for ham and bacon.
And an unrelated question; do i need to register with the beloved HMRC as an enterprise, particularly if you are getting an income for the 'to go' pigs above ? Should I register with HMRC anyway even though I'm expecting to use the produce for myself ? Should I infact try to get an income from the holding, I'm not expecting there to be enough produce to sell anything but am I underselling my potential (lol) !
Sorry cant answer this one. Perhaps give them a ring and ask hyperthetically.
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Right O talk among your sens I've gone to TESCO :( :o ??? ::) :-[ :-\ :'( :farmer:
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Hi and welcome from the Scottish Borders I sell my to go pigs at £120 for 1/2 a pig, includes slaughter and butcher, don't make anything off them but what the heck as long as they cover costs and it does mean that most of mine is paid for.
Good luck anyway pigs are quite addictive, if you are thinking of raising lambs for meat go for something native and not too big as they will fare better on a smaller area, some of the bigger breeds need a tremendous amount of good grass to get to a decent weight. :wave: :pig:
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Hi and welcome form another corner of the Scottish Borders too.
Re registering the holding - contact Defra and discuss with them, as you will need your own herd numbers (although bought in lambs for fattening will keep their own number for life, only stock born on your holding will have your number,but you will still need your own herd number which you will have to quote on any of the annual census(ses???) that come round in December).
Unless you plan to make an income from your holding don't register with HMRC, selling a couple of pigs will not need a self assessment income tax return. I gather you (and your wife) have outside jobs anyway (and you plan to keep them?). I wouldn't think you could make enough of an income from an acre to live on nowadays anyway, but it goes a long way towards self suffuciency in basic food stuff (and the quality is priceless!). I also wouldn't register as a business if you only plan to sell some livestock once or twice a year. Most payments will be in cash or kind anyway....
Good luck and have fun! I get up just after 5am every morning now (milking the goats and just finishing off lambing my 15 ewes - 2 are still keeping their legs crossed) and am VERY VERY tired, but love it really. I will be quite upset in a way when lambing has finished!
PS.: Keeping pigs in a copse - make sure the farmer you are renting the land from doesn't mind if the pigs re-fashion the layout a bit.... They are great landscape designers and earthmoving equipment in one piece! Electric wires/tapes are a must for them.