The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: WinslowPorker on April 15, 2010, 04:36:39 pm
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After a few years of living in the home counties rat race, has the time eventually come to sell up and make the move to a smallholding? Easy answer is yes, go down to Cornwall and find a nice smallhold with some potential and try and be self sufficient. but there is never an easy answer, you have all these potential stepping stones such as leaving friends, family etc and then there is the education to think of for teh kids, is it right to move them when they are settled etc etc etc.
Come on guys what do we reckon
I am never going to run my own very succesful business as its not me, likewise i will never commit career suicide by going on the apprentice with the bearded one, because again if you have to be that much of a backstabbing, spineless waste of blood and oxygen, then its not for me. So here we are working socks off while the bosses get richer, or do i stop and work hard but with my wife and kids so we are all together.
perhaps there is more wealth than just financial wealth.............................
God what have these 6 pigs done to me :pig: :pig: ;D :wave: :farmer:
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It sounds to me like the light's gone on for you ;D
Financially I'm skint - no savings, no high paying job but in terms of how rich my life is - I'm LOADED ;D ;D ;D We've got our pigs and chickens, we live in beautiful contryside and are lucky to be able to bring our kids up in a healthy, safe environment - one that teaches them about where there food comes from and how to respect animals, people and their environment. Would I trade it all for a high powered job and countless pairs of Jimmy Choo's ? Nope, no way - gimmie muck, wellies and pigs anyday ;D ;D ;D You only get one shot at it - make it enjoyable ;)
But on a realistic note - you'll struggle to support yourself completely from smallholding, some form of income from a part time or homebased job is neccessary.
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I completely agree with Karen :) :) :)
It's a great way of life, and I wouldn't change it for the world........and Karen is right, you definitely need some form of income too.
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Whatever you decide to do just remember that this is not the dress rehearsal, it is the performance - so ensure you know your lines and the music score.
I have had two husbands who left this world too young - neither picked up any of the pension that they ahd paid into all their years, although admittiedly I get some of it, so my advice is to look very carefully at your necessary expenses, be able to cover them from paid emplyment of some sort, then go for it! Without wanting to seem morose none of us know what is around the corner (just as well too ;) ;D ;D) so make the absoute best of what you do now.
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Im with everyone else on this, go for it now!
Now while the kids are young enough to settle with you, now while you have the energy. Now while you still dream.
You will learn what is essential for life and what you just want but most of all you will be with your family 24/7. ;D
In the uk no one starves, if you cant manage to make ends meet then the social does help. ;)
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oh such a great question and so many brilliant answers. our story is this.......... both hubby and i had decent jobs and kids went to the local school. life was very busy and hardly any time to sit and relax.
spent many years looking (half heartedly) for a place, believing we could never afford one, and they completely unexpectedly we came across here - 5.5 acres with a couple of outbuildings and a run down cottage. big decision as we had a 10 year old and an 8 year old who were used to being 'townies'.
anyway after much soul searching we moved here and like everyone else, we have never been more skint...but never, ever been happier or richer in the things that are REALLY important. we have chickens, horses, sheep, pigs, meat birds and ducklings and grow mostly our own veg. i've learnt for the first time how to make jams, chutneys, wine, make a few veg feed 4 of us.......and we are all well fed and watered as a result.
would i go back to my suits and exec lounge access? not a chance! in fact, the very idea of wearing a business suit again makes my blood run cold!
yes, you do need some kind of income, but work out what you need to survive (with a wee bit left over for emergencies); learn as much as you can before you start (courses, books, internet, people who have been there) and you'll be well set up.
it's a great life and so, so rewarding
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Your right there is more to wealth than financial wealth - but unfortunately you have to be realistic, or at least one person in the family has to be.
One thing is for sure though, you'll never know until you try plus there is always the fact that you could go back to getting a job in the city if it doesn't work.
As has been said you do have to have a sideline to be self sufficient, either that or you have to go into it headlong and become a full time farmer with a farming business to boot. If you do go into farming, working a 9 - 5 job will seem like dream hours. Farming is very long hours, lots of paperwork and running your own business with accounts and legal forms can seem like half the job you do and fills your spare time with all the boring stuff youd normally find in working for yourself in any industry. That said at the end of the night - all you've done all day has been for yourself and will benefit your family which does give you a 'feelgood' factor.
I for one could never afford to giveup my sideline in affiliate marketing in order to go completely 'self sufficient' here on the yard. I have been on my farm for just over a year now and its been a total loss making adventure financially, but its been amazing for me personally.
Nobody minds making little profit in return for a good lifestyle, but you do need to be making enough money to survive otherwise savings gradually get eaten up and you will find yourself in financial ruin with more problems than you've ever had.
Personally before taking on any 'lifestyle' change like this I would make sure that I had enough to cover all my bills for a year without an income, giving a buffer in order to get established, find work on the side and settle in to it all.
I'd go for it though, there is nothing more demoralising than after coming to the decision you dont like your city life and working for 'the man' but still having to get up every morning and carry on as if nothing is going to ever change.
Ta
Baz
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Oh I wish we had done it when we were young enough. It's too late now to do more then play at it. Good luck to you and your family whatever you decide.
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Hello all W.P. I am all for the good life but you must have money you cannot manage without it.The council will persue you to the ends of the earth for your community charge payment.The GAS, ELECTRIC and WATER Company's also want paying.It is a good plan to put a stamp on your card as this affects your state pension.You may not run foul of Inland Revenue but they don't give any leaway.So I hear you say I'll have a windmill for my electric are they free to have then,I will have a bore hole for my water.No you wont if the water authority finds out you need a licence to extract water I am not near a gas line So I will have a multi fuel stove cooker They were four pence halfpenny each last time I had a dream.In reality a nice Iron heart is a good bet so you have bags of cash have a S type AGA only about £10-15G So we will have solar heating :) OK for bath water not much use on a snowy winters day.OK so we will have a heat pump and use the bore hole (well ) as a heat source cost?I'm am not trying to deter you but you need a source of money be it a part time job or your lotto winnings ;D :farmer:
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Thanks all it is much appreciated and without trying to wear rose tinted glasses, this is how is i see it:
I need a 3 bed house as a minimum but any more is appreacited
Somewhere in the region of 3 acres???? only because my friend who owns the small hold where we have our pigs said anything bigger, and you will need a tractor with roller/topper etc and the land does not look after itself as much.
Now this is the confusing bit, i think a selection of outbuildings with potential to creat an annexe/holiday cottage or an already established one so we can generate some income. I appreciate that this may take some time to get your name known before the bookings come in or do i need to offer extra things to entice people, such as more land and dig a big lake for fishing? or can you try and put a camping field in?? i was also thinking about farm shops etc and polytunnels.
The danger is my mind running away but yes i know an income will be needed to sustain the life, the other option for year one is that i live up here with mum & dad and travel down at weekends or perhaps even as my boss if i can work from home on Mondays/Friday as i am only cold calling anyway.?
The reality is my wife (40) and I (35) have been talking about this for many years and i think the next stage is to actually go and do some viewings on some properties and just see for ourselves, I have been looking on PrimeLocation website and there is a good selection down in the SOuthWest so perhaps need to arrange some viewings amnd go from there.
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I know when we were looking for somewhere we thought we had worked out exactly what we wanted, and what we would do there. In reality it really depends on what you find and where it is.
Definitely start looking and then for each place you see and like, you can decide what would work there.
Even after finding this place we had ideas that we thought would work, but changed our minds and are going in a slightly different direction.
As well as the websites.....Primelocation, Right Move etc... it is worth contacting the local Estate Agents of the areas you prefer so that you can get details of everything you are looking for, they sometimes have details of places that the owners don't want to advertise publicly.
With the holiday cottage I would recommend being with an Agency to start with. It seems like a lot of commission to pay, but in my experience they've got the bookings.....Ours was taking bookings even before we'd finished the refurbishment, and we've only had 5 weeks empty since we opened at the end of June last year. And we're booked until October this year so far. I'd never have been able to do that without them.
You seem to have thought of different ways of doing this.....So, get some property details and get booking those viewings. :)
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There's a rise in the amount of people who want to take a farm holiday and get back to nature - they pay you for the privilage of helping feed your stock, learning how to look after them etc while you provide them with lovely home produced food and somewhere nice to stay. PP for campsites is fairly difficult to get and the stuff required to cater for them would eat into a lot of your 3 acres. Personally, I'd look for a cottage/annex/disused stable block or stading instead and as much land as you can afford. You'll probably find that even with 3 acres you'll be looking at getting a quad with trailer or some kind of vehicle to move stuff around - so don't let the thought of buying a tractor put you off - you get some really dinky tractors ;) For real self sufficiency you'd need a minimum of 5 acres to allow you to get a cow for milk and cheese etc. You could always rent the extra land to make an income or do a landshare type thing to get some produce in exchange so don't ever worry about having too much land - almost everyone ends up wishing they had more ;D
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I think you need to do what I did when I was going to build a house. Make a 'wish list' Then when you go to view properties, check it off on your list, and the nearer you get to fulfilling all your wishes - or even changing your mind about wanting them, the better, and that is the property for you. But be aware that it may not always be the right property. Everything changes, and you might find your needs change enough to sell up and buy something different. Don't be afraid to do that either.
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I am going to have a look round different websites and speak to some agenst this weekend, think there may be a tour coming up in the next couple of weeks to do a few viewings.
Its exciting but i have butterflies, perhaps its just the fear of change and moving from what you know...........
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Yes, it probably is. I moved 150 miles out of Aberdeenshire where I had lived all my life. (moved to be nearer my children) But I wanted to make the move while I was still young enough to take up new activities and make new friends - I've done just that! Good luck1 You could put your wish list on here and we can advise on pros and cons?
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Have a look at the Caravan Club / Camping and Caravan Club - you can have 5 touring caravan pitches without needing planning permission and if you meet the standards, you can become a certificated site for these organisation. You need half an acre but not a lot of capital investment - drinking water and soewhere to empty chemical loos. Generally charges are between 8 and 12 per night, so if you open 200 nights x 5 pitches at 8 quid, that's 8 grand a year. Assumes full occupancy of course and it's gross income not profit.
Country Smallholding has a series of articles about business planning, started last month, I think. Maybe most of us don't do it, but probably should, so it might be worthwhile to set down what you plan to do, inputs, outputs, and so on - it will give you a realistic picture of what's achievable.
My key advice woudl be buy as big a holding as you can afford - you'll grow into it. If you buy too small, you'll be frustrated in no time.
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Hi, we're in Cornwall - made the move 18 months ago but had waited till we could take early retirement (with public sector pensions!) to do it. It's great, we love it here and wouldn't change a thing. We're only playing at smallholding, basically a lovely farmhouse with 13 acres, but about 1o acres just cut for hay. We've brought the rest of the land (about 2 acres cos the lane to our house is veyr long, and makes up the rest) into use from being overgrown and neglected and it's going well. We loved our careers which always had to be city based. BUT we do wish we'd been able to bring our kids up somewhere like this (they're all grown with children of their own now). The children here have sailing lessons as a matter of routine after school each week, go to the beach for breakfast at weekends, and generally live a lovely outdoor life. So, is there a compromise if you can't give up work completely - different, perhaps seasonal work alongside living the dream. We have a holiday barn attached to our house and were booked for 47 weeks in our first year (through a brilliant agency who charge a fortune but do deliever on bookings). Even then, it only grossed about £12k. Great for a hobby business, but could you live on that?). Ours is only one bedroom which is why we get bookings from couples only right through the year. Larger properties make more in the high holiday season (and take more work on changeover etc) but are empty for a lot more weeks of the year as families tend only to use school holidays. So, lots to think about but good luck with the decision. You sound like you are more than ready for the change.
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That's a very good point about the size of holiday cottage starcana. Our holiday cottage originally had 3 bedrooms, which we thought would be great. We got the holiday cottage company around to take a look before we did the refurbishment and she recommended making the 3rd bedroom into an ensuite......A two bedroom (1 double and 1 twin room that can be made into a double), 2 bathroom cottage would let all through the year she said, not just the school holidays.
We went with her recommendations and she was right. We get couples, single friends, parents and children, Grandparents and Grandchildren, lots of combinations.
So worth keeping that in mind when looking at cottages/annexes in properties you look at. Bigger isn't always best.
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Guys you really are all a wealth of knowledge and it is appreciated!!
We have toyed with the idea of just getting this placed sold and going into rented, and benefit from being able to move quickly when the right property i found. I also do not really want to have to keep my job up here and only have weekends, but if that is what i need to do for yr1 then so be it. Mind you I would like any job where i can turn up, do a days work for a days money and go home and switch off!
I think the more land the better, especially generating income from caravans etc and an annexe too, i think these are going to be important so that we can generate income and try and be as self sufficient as possible. dont get me wrong i do not have my head in the clouds and fully expect to have to get work of some description, but hey 10 miles from beach, all teh activities available for the kids and a dalmation & collie who go totally bonkers as soon as there paws touch the sand!!
need to put some figures together i think and then add 20% ;D :wave:
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Good luck with it I hope it all goes to plan. :)
Ta
Baz
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One common thread on this forum is people jumping into the deep end and getting out of the rat race. We both had good jobs, low mortgage, nice home in a beauty spot and great lifestyle but you end up with just a few hours to enjoy your life, the only time you get is your 4 weeks holiday. We moved to enjoy things a bit more and it's worked.....Go for it is my advice...only here a short time so you should not think too long about things!!!
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It's still a buyers market out there too, so I would certainly think seriously about selling first, or at least have some interest before committing to buy. We did that way back in the 80's, spent 4 months in a rented house with 2 teenagers and three dogs, but it was good for us as a family - we all pulled together. Then we saw the right house on a Monday, bought and paid for it on the Tuesday, moved in on the Friday! My daughter has been trying to sell her city flats for 4 months.
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If only we had some extra ££££'s ??? ??? ???
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Mornin W.P.Take in all this good advice but still as Sir Terry said "Back to the day job" its vital.Best of Good Luck with the project and take your time.A ? Marry in haste relent at your leisure.Same rule applies
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Well after a sunburnt weekend and too many BBQ's and glasses of wine, my wife and I finally had some together time and have decided at the moment we are going to have to stay in the rat race. Maybe that we re-visit this in a few years or perhaps try and acquire a piece of land locally that we can have some animals on.
At the end of the day we do want to travel a little bit and see some far away places before we move the forever lifestyle of a smallholding, and having spoken with my local estate agent they are re-opening the railway station in our little town in the next couple of years which will give us all and overnight windfall on house prices.
The dream is very much still alive, but as opposed to sppeing along in 5th we have just slowed down a couple of gears and will take some time to get all of our house in order so we can come and play with you all, knowing that we are sorted.
Also we have a way to go with a few more animals to keep so we can build up all of our experience, for when we do it ourselves.
Looking forward to speaking with you all more on advice/experiences etc and George you a right, there is no need to be hasty, i know the clock is ticking but we still have bags of time.
Graeme
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Very sensible Graeme.The only trouble is that little plot you could just about manage now will be thousands more in 5 years more is the pity. As city dwellers sell their desirable city residences and move out into the country.Some pay fantastic prices and do nothing with the 31/2 acre but it stops you doing anything with it. ??? :farmer:
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There is lots of time to follow the dream Graeme. You are still very young and lots to do, especially the travelling. It has to be the right time in life for everyone in the family to make the change.
Enjoy life, see lots of places, learn lots and when the time is right everything will fall into place.
:) :) :)
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Thanks guys,
You know we were watching the gogglebox over the weekend and there was something about China come on and i said to Di, ' i would love to go and see the Great Wall' and from there we ended up with a pros & cons session and realised we still had some dreams that need forfilling prior to this lifestyle move, mind you Julie my July road trip may open up the can of worms again.
Your right george the land thing around teh homecounties is absolutley mad, i have seen 2-3 acre plots of scrubland go for nearly £40k then they put a couple of stables on and a menage and suddenley its nearly doubled and trust me they are not on the market long! i showed my estate agent the property in Looe, Cornwall with the Ag Occupancy on and he said you can get them lifted but even so, up here in the home counties you would be £600k++ for soemthing like that!! born and bread in Buckinghamshire as is my whole bloodline in rural village/farming communities and i will have to move 4+ hours away to live my dream of having a little bit of land for 'farming', as i will never afford to do that in my own community. ???
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Phew WP thats even worse than I had been told about :o :farmer:
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There is a 5 bed house with some 14 acres, some equestrian facilities and ok it has a swimming pool & gym but has just hit the market for 1.575million!! not for me in this lifetime unless i win the Euros!
seriously though anything whihc says equestrian down here is like a license to print money! I am sure JulieS will have exeprienced that having lived not too far from me.
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It really is amazing what properties like that fetch in your part of the world Graeme....and if it has equestrian bits then it really puts the price up!
A lovely part of the country....But I'm definitely a fan of the West Country now :) :) :) :) :) :)
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I love the west country too and thats what is frightening me (in a good way) that when i come down in July, the temptation will be too much and i will end up like the Cadburys cream egg advert with the mouse traps, just bouncing around everywhere!! ;D ;D :wave: :farmer:
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You will have a great time in July and will go home with great plans for the time ahead of you :) :)
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We did the same as doganjo - although we lived in Perthshire - we sold up and rented (3 dogs/3 cats/2 birds of prey - chickens to the mother-in-laws) then looked at everthing we could afford from Perth (not really anything) to Aberdeenshire and ended up here - it ticked more boxes than anywhere else. Good luck with your hunting - must admit I love looking at property so the hunt was good fun
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I am really looking forward to the property viewing stage and will try my best to view with my head and not my heart!! must admit 10 minutes on PrimeLocation and i always have a smile. :wave: :pig: :farmer: