The Accidental Smallholder Forum

Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: sheepdaft on November 08, 2015, 12:54:11 am

Title: ear tags
Post by: sheepdaft on November 08, 2015, 12:54:11 am
Hi everyone. I bought myself 5 ewes back in summer. The person I bought ghem from didn't have them tagged as they had never left her farm. When the deal was struck and money handed over they said they couldn't find the tags in their car and tht they would send them by post once they had found them. No tags have appeared and I have asked several times. So the question is what do I do? Can I just get my own tags made up with my numbers on them and then register the numbers. Or will I have to get the breeders number on the tags. I'm in Scotland btw incase the rules are different for some people. Thanks  :)
Title: Re: ear tags
Post by: sheepdaft on November 22, 2015, 11:15:17 pm
Can't believe there's no comets.  Surely someone has some advice? Please.
Title: Re: ear tags
Post by: Buttermilk on November 23, 2015, 06:36:37 am
Get red tags made up with your flock numbers.
Title: Re: ear tags
Post by: Talana on November 23, 2015, 08:13:19 am
Order a run of doudle red tags for them. one eid one convention. Write in your holding register you re tagged them with the red numbers. They shouldn't have moved without tags. Did they not put numbers on the movement document cos they are supposed to do that or upload the tag numbers to the scoteid database. SAMU might be giving them a phone with the phone number they put on the movement document. They normally do if somethings not right on it and get it rectified.
Title: Re: ear tags
Post by: Backinwellies on November 23, 2015, 08:17:22 am
Red tags with your number is the only option.
They should never have been moved without tags......... the tag numbers are supposed to go on movement forms.
Title: Re: ear tags
Post by: sheepdaft on December 04, 2015, 11:51:35 pm
 i know they shouldnt have been moved but they were in the trailer and a search of the sellers vehicle produced no tags and further contact with them has still produced no tags. my last resort is to go to there home and demand tags. if i get red tags made up with my own number what do i do to register them on my holding? do i use the scot eid database. sorry for all the questions ive worked with sheep alot but its a bit different when they are your own. its a steep learning curve but im not giving up  ;D
Title: Re: ear tags
Post by: Rosemary on December 05, 2015, 09:33:08 am
For what it's worth, don't beat yourself up about this. You're not at fault here.

As Talana says, are there no numbers on the movement licence? You did get a movement licence?
Title: Re: ear tags
Post by: Robyn on December 05, 2015, 10:03:12 am
Hi sheepdaft.
Firstly, welcome to the forum.

Can't believe there's no comets.  Surely someone has some advice? Please.

I suspect, as this topic has been discussed several times in the past, that most members assumed you would have found your answer there.

I bought myself 5 ewes back in summer. The person I bought ghem from didn't have them tagged as they had never left her farm. I'm in Scotland btw incase the rules are different for some people. Thanks  :)

Not sure about rules in Scotland, but down here sheep must be tagged when they are moved off premises of birth or before they reach 9 months of age, whichever comes first.

And yes, the way forward should be double red tags.
Title: Re: ear tags
Post by: fsmnutter on December 05, 2015, 10:31:39 am
i know they shouldnt have been moved but they were in the trailer and a search of the sellers vehicle produced no tags and further contact with them has still produced no tags. my last resort is to go to there home and demand tags. if i get red tags made up with my own number what do i do to register them on my holding? do i use the scot eid database. sorry for all the questions ive worked with sheep alot but its a bit different when they are your own. its a steep learning curve but im not giving up  ;D
As mentioned, you can order tags with your flock number that animal health gave you, the tag manufacturer will ask for all your details and notify the government that the tags were issued. Then you record in the "replacement identification" page of your holding register that you retagged 5 sheep with red tags that you do not know the previous numbers of.
Any sheep that reaches 6 months must be tagged, or any that moves off the holding before then.
As said, if you put the red tags in and have everything perfect in your holding register you've done everything right.
Title: Re: ear tags
Post by: Goatherd on December 05, 2015, 10:34:57 am
If that was round here some would be in trouble No tags No numbers on the licence if there was one (no one seems to say there is) the white copy arriving at the office with no numbers   If that was here someone would be shut down
Title: Re: ear tags
Post by: Marches Farmer on December 05, 2015, 11:26:20 am
And here.  I personally would be inclined to go to the seller and jump up and down a bit. Not sure what the form is in Scotland but here the mention of Trading Standards would probably prooduce some action.  They should not have left the holding without tags showing the UK flock number of the holding of birth.  Full stop.
Title: Re: ear tags
Post by: devonlad on December 05, 2015, 01:00:05 pm
Welcome btw. Its happened, not ideal but its happened. id be in the jumping up and down to get the tags off the vendor camp. if not , where have they come from, dropped out of space ?

 it irritates the hell out of me when people who I presume should know better are too lazy, ignorant or couldn't give a s**t, to keep to basic important rules re livestock movement. my OH work full time in busy jobs and yet NEVER cut corners with this. nuff said
Title: Re: ear tags
Post by: Penninehillbilly on December 05, 2015, 02:41:56 pm
You did get your part of the movement licence?
No Id on there?
CPH or flock number?
Phone sellers and tell them you are going to ask SAMU? (presume that's your defraud equivalent?)  for advice, might shake them up a bit.
Title: Re: ear tags
Post by: snowyriver on December 05, 2015, 02:53:50 pm
You did get your part of the movement licence?
No Id on there?
CPH or flock number?
Phone sellers and tell them you are going to ask SAMU? (presume that's your defraud equivalent?)  for advice, might shake them up a bit.

I've got that very uncomfortable feeling about what has happened here!

sheepdaft, do you have any paper trail for this transaction, be it any of the ones mentioned above? if you don't, then I believe you could be in a spot of trouble

where have they come from, dropped out of space ?
i know they shouldnt have been moved but they were in the trailer

loaded in the trailer, no tags, no paper work? it makes one wonder where they've come from.
Title: Re: ear tags
Post by: clydesdaleclopper on December 05, 2015, 03:15:20 pm
Are there holes in their ears to indicate that they have been tagged at some point?
Title: Re: ear tags
Post by: Penninehillbilly on December 05, 2015, 03:44:32 pm

Phone sellers and tell them you are going to ask SAMU? (presume that's your defraud equivalent?) 
Errrm sorry predictive text obviously doesn't recognise DEFRA. Oops there it went again  ;D
Title: Re: ear tags
Post by: lesbri on December 05, 2015, 05:59:38 pm
Hi, this happened to me last year although Im in England so regulations may vary. I was given a cade lamb and being very naive and new to sheep keeping, didnt query the fact that there was no movement licence or ear tags with him.

When I later realised I should have had both, the person who gave him to me kept promising to send them but they never materialised and eventually didnt answer any more messages I left or responded to phone calls.

In the meantime I had a visit from Animal Health and explained to them what had happened. They were very understanding and tried to contact the person themselves. When they also had no luck, they advised me to tag the lamb with my own tags, making a note about it in my log book. Problem solved! Hope you are able to resolve your problem soon  :fc:
Title: Re: ear tags
Post by: Penninehillbilly on December 05, 2015, 11:21:44 pm
Years ago, 1990s, a sheep turned up and made herself at home, I didn't have anything back then so quite happy for her to eat the grass off.
Local AH chap happened to call by  (or did someone call him?), and said, 'well, looks like it's yours now', and sent me all the paperwork, couldn't check her ear tag, soay type, wild as wild.
Wonder what would have happened these days?
Title: Re: ear tags
Post by: Buttermilk on December 06, 2015, 07:57:51 am
All they want is for them to be in the system.  No tags bad but your tags good.
Title: Re: ear tags
Post by: Marches Farmer on December 06, 2015, 05:09:29 pm
It's all about traceability, which is onerous at times but vital in case of a disease outbreak.  We're presently having to fill in a form every time we take sheep to market certifying that they haven't been anywhere near the anthrax cases in Wiltshire.
Title: Re: ear tags
Post by: Coximus on December 06, 2015, 05:40:38 pm
I've got a couple with my tags in that appeared in a field, presumably put their by someone, untagged, one day. Rang AH - they said same, tag them up, ideally get them sent for meat asap so theyre ngone, (I kept one and have bred from her) - tag up, keep records and details, and be prepared if anyone says they belong to them, get them to get replacement tags first and give em back
Title: Re: ear tags
Post by: daveh on December 07, 2015, 02:10:43 pm

Marches Farmer said:

>It's all about traceability, which is onerous at times but vital in case of a disease outbreak.  We're presently >having to fill in a form every time we take sheep to market certifying that they haven't been anywhere near the >anthrax cases in Wiltshire.

This happened to me last week at Stoneleigh market, even further away from Wiltshire than you in Herefordshire.
Title: Re: ear tags
Post by: sheepdaft on December 08, 2015, 07:17:36 pm
i recieved a movement document the day i bought them so i know the flock number. there are no holes in ears. they just havent been tagged to whatever reason i dont know, lazyness, not enough tags or whatever. ive made contact with her again and she said they are in the post. this was last monday and still no signs. im going to give her the benefit of doubt AGAIN and wait till friday. if there is still no tags come through ill will get my own red tags made up and the matter will hopefully be resolved. thanks for everyones input ill get there in the end  :)
Title: Re: ear tags
Post by: mowhaugh on December 09, 2015, 05:41:10 pm
Even if they do come, I would say the chances of them matching your tagging pliers are minimal!
Title: Re: ear tags
Post by: Backinwellies on December 10, 2015, 08:11:13 am
Movement doc should have individual sheep numbers on not just flock number
Title: Re: ear tags
Post by: bazzais on December 12, 2015, 05:50:16 pm
Tag with red tags - dont worry about replication of unique animal number just write a note in your flock book of the sellers flock, cph numbers and address.  I am sure this would be sufficient.
(remember EID goes in right ear  :) )

Your movement licence will also reflect that you were not given individual animal numbers. 

The 'ministry' are quite good as long as there is no 'foul play' on the go.

You wouldn't be the first or the last person to have not tagged at the right time.  (They will be able to see when you order the tags if you are buying them for the first time.) 

If you already have tags - say you tagged them as soon as you got them home.

Barry