The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Introduce yourself => Topic started by: Rowdy Whaleback on November 05, 2015, 01:43:38 pm
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Hello, and sorry for the subject line it is not intended to cause any upset! Please read the following (lengthy) post with a sense of humour. ;D
In 2 years time I will retire as a Police Officer at the age of 49. For 30 years the Steeleye Span loving hippy in me has been suppressed and I want to stop working for the man.
If at this point you find yourself rolling your eyes and thinking to yourself NARPO ::)(Not another retired Police Officer) then please stop reading.
I was brought up in a village and my wife was brought up on a farm, raising lambs, to a farming family. Our first son has Down's syndrome and our second son is currently apprenticing with an agricultural engineering firm. My wife is the caring type and I don't mind a bit of hard physical labour. We currently live in the suburbs of a small Town, we have a dog, oh, and some goldfish.
We have a plan that when my engineering son finishes his apprenticeship in 3 years time we will look to get a place where we have a couple of acres or so and at some point an annexe for number one son. The wife likes the sound of keeping Alpacas and goats (I imagine this may bring about a bit more eye rolling!) and I want to grow my own ham, egg and chips (who needs more?) and maybe even put an acre or so to a small campsite in some beautiful picturesque haven! I would like to run a place for beer money, self sustaining if you like. I appreciate that I am privileged enough to be able to do so, but I also have to think about number two sons future prospects, will there be work wherever we go or could he run the place and live off it.
Whilst house prices where we live at the moment are astronomical we have the conundrum of staying within 40 miles or so of where we live and not getting much for the money or selling up and moving to the Welsh borders or Dorsetshire where we enjoy the rolling countryside and the Urban sprawl doesn't seem so great.
We have 3 years to plan and prepare and I will be reading magazines, books and visiting this site frequently.
I know I'm probably a 60's child "good life", hovel in the hills, wanabee, cliche but finally to my point. (One of many to come, I'm sure)
Having recently had a bit of a life crises I read the book "Stumbling on happiness". It taught me that despite what I think, we are all pretty similar and if you want to know how your future will look, go ask someone there already because your imagination is flawed. So...did you find yourself in a similar position to me and how did it go for you? I know it will be cold, wet, back breaking work. Were there any hidden issues that you hadn't thought about? What would you have done differently?
Thank you for reading to the end and if you are living my dream please remember to remind yourself how lucky I think you are.
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What a great name! Welcome to the forums :wave:
Have you thought about Scotland as a possible destination? Great country, great people - we have the lectric and everything now and have stopped eating missionaries (but not Tories ;) )
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All sounds like an excellent, and achievable plan to me! Go for it.... part of the adventure is the finding out what works, and what doesn't work, for you all.....
We left city life three years ago - wouldn't swap it for the world.....
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Hi and welcome to TAS :wave:
I can't really help with the planning side of it as we fell into it after buying a place where we could keep the Clydie at home. We now no longer have the horse but do have goats, sheep, pigs, geese, ducks, chickens and guinea fowl ;D the main thing I would look for now if I was to buy somewhere new is lots of outbuildings for storing tools, hay, feed and somewhere to house all the animals.
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Thanks for the replies so far folks.
I've spent a little time in Scotland. We motorcycle toured around once. The predominant memory was in wild camping overlooking a loch over on the West. 6pm or so the air went black with midges and it got so bad we were breathing them in so chucked everything back on the bike and rode to the East! We also holiday'd for a week in Torridon, same thing with the midge.
I have a concern that I don't want to be too remote so number one son could get public transport to Town if needed.
You can certainly get bang for buck up there.
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Yes.
After spending a misty morning with the sheep, overlooking a beautiful valley, and with my back to all the unfinished jobs, yes, I think I am! :thumbsup:
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Left the rat race 2004, WWOOFed for a year or so, ended up buying a moorland farm with an experienced farmer.
Bang for buckwise we moved north, to Northumberland. I'm now just over the border in Cumbria.
Love the life, absolutely love it.
Miss summer.
Wish the old body was a bit younger and more flexible.
Would I do it again? In a heartbeat.
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yes yes yes, moved from Milton Keynes to rural Wales 18 months ago bought a small holding, have Alpacas, goats, chickens ducks and turkeys, raised 2 pigs last year for the freezer, grow our own veg, hubby works away during the week, its hard work, love it and wouldnt go back for anything.
I spent years planning for this learning and trying things out on a small scale now I am doing it for real so glad I had a chance to try out and learn skills before hand, we are on our way to be some-what self sufficient in 18 months hubby will be here full time, I can and do earn a small income from crafting, it suits me.
Good luck and I look forward to hearing about your journey :wave:
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Carmarthenshire here too. My advice isgo for it ..... But think how much time you want to spend daily on livestock .... Alpacas and goats will take much more input than sheep and cows. Also don't underestimate how much land you need..... I have met many smallholders who thought 5 acres was a lot then realised 5 acres on wet welsh meadow is not the same as 5 acres of grazing in the dryer east .
Start your planning now... Maybe do what Sally did and try woofing or helpxingto try things out
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I love it when folk are at the stage you are at, with all that to look forward to.
I too would second Scotland - it's not all midgies and rain, although I have been in the same situation as you with having to pack up the bike and dash. The plan is not to try camping in the summer when the midgies swarm.
We are in Scotland, somewhere to the south of Edinburgh. It's beautiful country, low on tourists and we do have a bus service (also the new Borders Railway) for getting in to town. Midgies are also fairly rare :thumbsup:
One thing we have learnt is that you can't expect your offspring to love your new life as you do. We are disappointed that ours don't, but it means we don't have impossible expectations as to what will happen to the place when we pop it. We would rather that a family who really love smallholding should buy our place and continue what we have started, and that our offspring can sell up and use the money as they wish.
Your number one son will though almost certainly love working with the animals, and of course having the space to live in his own quarters. Come to think of it, our smallholding, with its granny flat and so on would probably suit you fine. But we don't plan on leaving quite yet......... :roflanim:
Many on here will say to avoid alpacas, as I think you expect, but as long as you are not trying to make a living from the place, you have the luxury to do as you please.
I would say don't fall into the trap of trying to squeeze too many animals, and species of animals, into such a small acreage - I know it sounds a lot, but once you get there you will realise how tiny it is. Start small and see what you have room for, and how much time you need to put in, or get a few more acres. It doesn't have to be backbreaking, which can make fun turn into a chore.
Many people have found going on smallholding courses to be a big help, or doing Wwoofs or HelpX as Sallyintnorth did. If you go on a course, make sure you choose a reputable one - there are many sharks out there.
Enjoy your research time - you'll love the new life and, yes, you'll be happy.
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:wave: from Shropshire.
I've never been in a position to buy a smallholding but I've got the second best - a microholding, ie a large garden. I keep goat, grow veggies and fruit and love it. I would suggest seeing if you can visit someone doing what you hope to do and seeing how they do things.
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:wave: from north Lincolnshire. Just got back from letting the chickens out and milking the goats. Had home made yoghurt and honey for breakfast, home grown lamb for dinner last night. Courgette soup for lunch. Im knackered but would I change it? Not on your Nellie. Go for it. As a police man you will have experienced things that many of us would not be able to bear. Enjoy what you have
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Hello from Devon. Yes, go for it! You may find it's not for you after a while but, if you don't try it you will spend your life thinking "what if?" My son-in-law is a police officer (traffic) and, as David and Collette said, has seen things in the course of duty that he would rather not have.
If I were 35 instead of 65 I would sell up here and think seriously about Wales, Ireland or Scotland.
With age I have discovered the trick of not rushing into things, especially livestock but to do things in small bites so as not to be overwhelmed.
Good luck to you in your dream!!
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All, once again thanks for the response. We have looked at Alpacas on the forum and didn't realise some of the issues, particularly the TB possibility.
Devonlady, why "foreign lands" ;) everybody please excuse my casual racism but when I was a kid people were getting their cottages burnt down. I'm not naive, so don't believe this for a moment, particularly if I'm making a home and not buying a "holiday home". As a family we holiday in the UK and the further away you get from the rat-race the friendlier the people (sometimes). But what of the weather? Sallyintnorth misses the summer. Northumbria, for example, is one of the best places in the Country to holiday in summer, particularly with the castles and empty beaches but the weather can be unreliable. I know N wales is wet and grey all the time (once again winking, smiley face and all that)
I'm not writing this to elicit a storm of controversy but have people found the more extreme moves pain free?
I suppose another way of saying all of the above is why are these places so much cheaper? What's the catch? There are loads of places in a place called Lampeter for sale it seems. Why are people running away from Lampeter?
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why are these places so much cheaper? What's the catch?
I think it's just accessibility to towns and hence the jobs that go with them. Also nice houses with small plots of land tend to be bought up by well to do horsey people, at least around here.
We seriously considered moving to the back of beyond, but once we realised how hard it would be to make a smallholding pay, we realised that was unrealistic for us. In the end we managed to find somewhere 'wild enough' for me, yet commutable to both Glasgow and Edinburgh. (Our wee place was too run down to be snapped up by horsey people ;) ). We still have a much bigger mortgage than had we bought a similar place in the back of beyond of course, but it means I can still work at what I am trained for, which then pays better than if I'd had to change job to suit a location move.
Of course if you already have capital available to buy a place, and a pension that means you don't have to make it pay, that frees you up from having to live near civilisation (unless you want to). If you've got three years, don't be in any hurry. Just go on holiday (or wwoof (https://www.wwoof.org.uk/join_wwoof)?) in all the locations you think you might fancy, until you find one that feels like home! :thumbsup:
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There are lots of places to buy a smallholding and I would defiantly suggest that you plan some mini breaks and arrange to visit some of us for a chat and kick the tyres of our "escapes to the country"
As you dont need it to be a viable business then you have lots of scope. You may find that you are content with some chickens and a couple of pigs with the option of a few store lambs over the summer in which case a couple of acres will do. Buildings are useful / essential and how many and how big depends on what you plan to do. But you can always construct something subject to planning.
Being part of an argri community give easy and affordable access to livestock, Hay, Straw, feed Merchants, auction centers and abattoirs as well as the opportunity to rent land or sometimes graze for free.
Visit Scotland, Cumbria, Wales and see what you make of the land, the scenery and the weather. We live in a beautiful country and wherever you pick will be perfect if it gives you the life that you dream of. If you would like to visit Yorkshire I can sort out some accommodation and some smallholders to visit...perhaps even a retired police inspector turned smallholder.....Visit when the weather is bad because Summer makes every smallholding look like the Darling buds of May.
But will it make you happy........... :thinking:
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:wave: from North Yorkshire
"Are you happy?"
I escaped 3 years ago. Heart won over head and I now have a huge mortgage I really can't afford. I have to commute 2 hours to the real world for work.
I have cooked on a camping stove for most of the 3 years.
My life is covered in mud.
My shoes are covered in s**t and I sometime find myself peering at them and wondering whose s**t it is today.
I have to get up when it's dark and sometimes don't get to see this place in daylight for days on end.
I ache in places I didn't know I had and I've learnt many new swear words while batting chickens out of trees and trying to tip sheep.
Am I happy - hell yes ;D
You go for it :)
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If you do arrange a trip to Yokshire we can go and visit Jukes Mum. You can help her to discover whose sh@t she is wearing that day and I can give her a smallhoder hug :hug:
Perhaps we could arrange a Yorkshire smallholder get together.... :thinking:
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Visit when the weather is bad because Summer makes every smallholding look like the Darling buds of May.
.... great time to visit here then ........... sideways rain!
We have a cottage and welcome potential new smallholders to visit .... help x terms or pay for cottage and have a weekend break.
And there are a lots of smallholders in the area to visit and chat with.
Oh and the last ex policeman who came here help X ing found a smallholding in Carmarthenshire and stayed!!!
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If you do arrange a trip to Yokshire we can go and visit Jukes Mum. You can help her to discover whose sh@t she is wearing that day and I can give her a smallhoder hug :hug:
Perhaps we could arrange a Yorkshire smallholder get together.... :thinking:
oooo yay, I'd love that :-)
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I have been here for 3.5 years, moving from a stressful job in banking. I live not too far from Backinwellies. The lack of shops was a bit of a shock to the system at the beginning but a couple of the big supermarkets deliver so it's not a problem. During the time we have been here we have raised 3 sets of weaners, some lambs, have chickens for eggs and ducks, well just because I like them.
Enjoy your journey.
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Have just moved to North Wales.(4 months) Sun mainly shining still. The welcome from our neighbours has been awesome. Are we happy? Yes certainly - and much slimmer and fitter (but we do miss the people we left behind having lived in our last place for 30 years and that is a factor you need to think about) i still commute to the midlands for a couple of day work most weeks. I love your aim to grow your own ham eggs and chips. I think I will adopt that as a goal. Egg and chips so far : )
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I am encouraged by all the previous comments. We moved to Okehampton, Devon 18 months ago :raining:to fullfill our long term dream, but we sorely miss our friends in Hampshire. :sunshine: The direct neighbours have not been so nice but the nearest farmer has been lovely and soo helpful.
We are however very happy with our small flock of White Face Dartmoor sheep and our even smaller herd of Shetland cattle.
At last we are living the dream......... all be it up to our ankles in mud 'n'sh*t
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Hi and welcome to the forum. When my parents started to farm in the late 90s it was all so exciting. Farming can be stressful, like any other job am sure, the rewards are really good though. I have loved every minute which I have with my animals and my farm, I wouldn't change it for the world. i am just starting a new venture myself, milking sheep, so that should be a novel experience :D I encourage anyone who would like to keep farm. All the best and it sounds like you have ot well figured out. :thumbsup: if you have any questions, then dont hesitate to ask and we'll try to answer as best we can.
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You asked why "foreign lands" RW. Cheaper farms!! When I left Ireland, a fair few years ago now, what I sold a house and 40 acres for would have bought a decent garden shed in Devon!
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Regarding #2 son being able to find engineering work, then Wales may not be the best location anyway. Nor as far North as I am, sadly. Lincolnshire seems to be a good place to buy a smallholding - good land and not too expensive, I'm not sure about work prospects. Otherwise south-west Yorkshire maybe? Or Lancs?
If you can afford Shropshire, Dorset, Somerset or Devon, and can find somewhere that fits and is commutable to the right sort of work for him, then whyever not. There are lots of smallholder types in those locations, they're holiday destinations for your putative campsite, they have summer and everything, you can grow your own veg (Yorkshire's good for that, I hear; upland Cumbria and western Northumberland much less so.)
The only real downsides of South West England, for someone with aspirations such as yours, apart from property prices, are:
- can get summers that are too dry, hot and long, drying up the grass and making growing vegetables difficult
- TB is endemic, so something to consider if you are planning camelids, deer or cattle, particularly
- you get a lot of tourists - which can be an upside if you have a tourist-related business, but can be a downside in terms of the roads being clogged with tourist traffic in summer
(I moved here from Exmoor, so I have a little knowledge upon which to base my analysis. ;))
(I'd list other pros and cons for someone with different aspirations, so if anyone else is piggybacking this thread, please start your own thread so we can give you input for your particular situation!)
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If you do arrange a trip to Yokshire we can go and visit Jukes Mum. You can help her to discover whose sh@t she is wearing that day and I can give her a smallhoder hug :hug:
Perhaps we could arrange a Yorkshire smallholder get together.... :thinking:
oooo yay, I'd love that :-)
hope that includes West Yorkshire as well (nearly put Westies but that sounds more like a little dog, mind you , we are 'tykes' :-). )
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Thanks for the sound advice Sally.
Concerns over the prospect of #2 will have to be factored in. I appreciate that self sufficiency is a mis-nomer (due to Council tax charges, bills, transport and so on). Any land would either have to be capable of creating sufficient income or be situated near enough to work.
I'm sure there's lots of advice on here.
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At the moment it's not quite as good as before because of the downturn in the oil but usually Aberdeenshire is a good bet. We don't get the midges that you get out west, usually lots of engineering jobs with the oil industry and land is not too expensive.
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For your son perhaps he might want to make his own way at college or uni - you have to let them go at sometime! If notthen Aberdeenshire might be a good prospect as, despite what you hear on the news, the oil industry still needs engineers and there are lots of colleges that have tailored courses for marine engineering, oil engineering etc. Take a look at Banff and Buchan college (its changed its name now but you get redirected) and other learning institutions in Scotland. We live an hours drive away from aberdeen where you can get excellent rail and air links to london and elsewhere. Weve been here 10 years now, I wont say its been easy all the time but on the whole I dont think well move anytime soon. There are still some amazing properties up here for sale but I notice some are getting snapped up again. Keep your options (and your mind open) you'll have to make compromises along the way.
Should you consider our part of scotland though, dont expect the bright lights of Edinburgh, we like it here because of this!!
Getting to work in York used to take me over an hour to get to work 10 miles away - my journey to work now takes 15 minutes and the traffic at its worst is a few cars and the odd farm vehicle - half of my journey is downhill with the sea in front of me.
Anyway, good luck with your search if you need a guided tour pm me and we could sort something out Im sure.
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One hour from Aberdeen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQVZ3nigsuU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQVZ3nigsuU) We moved to Portsoy in the 1970's & not going anywhere soon. I spent most of my childhood in Swindon so this is definitely a breath of "Fresh AIR". In the town.in the country & at the seaside & friendly folk. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK5rBiMZ12s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK5rBiMZ12s)
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Hi and welcome. My brother is a retired police man and he moved to Spain in January. Has olive trees and lemon, grows his own veg and now loves life so it can work. I live near Banff and rear lamb and pork for the freezer. Also have ponies, dogs, cats and chickens. I hope it all works out for you and your family. Some lovely places in Scotland ! :wave: