The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: Cosmore on September 27, 2015, 11:36:14 am
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I wonder if anyone else has had similar experiences or sightings and if so in what part of the country?
This is a subject that years ago I had been very sceptical about and took with a 'pinch of salt' the reports in the press and some fuzzy film shown on TV. However, due to a personal experience I changed my mind and whilst the existence of these beasts is not proven beyond doubt yet, I'm now convinced that some exist in the wild in parts of the UK, and definately North Dorset.
Briefly, some years ago I had a second job to earn some extra pennies as a vehicle recovery driver for a local company, my vehicle was a 12 tonne slidebed with a Lorry loader crane. I was responsible for the companies police contract attending accidents on 24 hour callout based at home.
One night I was called out at 2:30am to an incident some miles away in the countryside, there were no streetlights and just the occasional house or farm. I was progressing with as much speed as it was safe to do, there was no other traffic and I kept my headlights on full beam. I was wide awake and fully focused as you are when driving an HGV. Halfway there on a narrowish road I rounded a gentle corner and about 20 feet in front of me fully illuminated by the headlights I could clearly see the rear body half, legs and tail of a very large 'cat', feline shaped, all black, as it 'melted' into the bushes on the right side of the road and was gone. I would have loved to have stopped to investigate but the callout took priority - I did stop on the return journey about an hour later but there was nothing to be seen, it was summertime and the ground was dry so no prints or other evidence. It was definately not a domestic or feral pussycat, where it had gone into the bushes there was a large milestone, the creature stood above the level of that.
Later I compared what I had seen with photos and pictures of the back half of Panthers, it was an exact match down to the smooth black coat, shape of the body, the way the rear legs and feet were positioned and the slope and curl at the end of the round tail. I concluded that I had indeed witnessed a Panther, or rather the rear half of one.
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That is truly amazing! We have a family of them in wales, I've never seen them, but apparently they belonged to someone and when the laws changed they released them (back in the 70s I think). Why do people never understand that it imbalances things, its too late to remove them now though, as everything has balanced again.
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Posted on another thread but relevant to this one -
Ive no doubt that there are the odd escaped / released cat around. But I don't buy that there are breeding populations. Whats interesting is that pretty much every time one is seen, its always by someone on their own, and some 'civilian' (don't take offence). Ive spent many years and 1000's of hours, in the countryside both day and night, seeking to hunt out beasties from the woods, hedges, bracken, gorse, ditches, forests, moorland, you name it. Ive pretty much tracked down and often ultimately killed (when legal and for a purpose) pretty much every quarry in the British Isles, and many across Europe (the dogs have passports!). This includes all of the usual ones, fox, rabbit, hare, deer of every variety, wild boar, badgers in Europe where it is legal, and a few weird ones, like wallabies (they were not killed). And never in all of that time, have I treed or flushed or caught a large cat in the U.K. And never in all of the hours and hours, they I have spent walking / driving around fields at night with a lamp or night vision have I stumbled across one. And funnily enough neither has any other hunter in the whole country. . . . nor has any of the countless packs of hounds who hunt nearly every moor, wood and field in the U. K over the winter ever treed, flushed or killed one. No game keeper has seen one, no deer stalker sat in a high seat silently for hours. . . . .
It's always some random walker, or someone just having a potter about that 'bumps' into one quite by accident.
So why is that?
And please don't tell me that cats are too smart or cunning or any of that crap. As I have plenty of friends who live in countries where there are big cats (of varying types) who regularly hunt them, and successfully tree of catch them. And they don't seem to be smart enough to avoid the random walkers etc who see them.
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Hoping this link works. If I can find the other one I'll add that too.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O7356E91Q0w
(If it doesn't, YouTube for "big cat on train tracks".) it's difficult to argue with this one.
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Hoping this link works. If I can find the other one I'll add that too.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O7356E91Q0w
(If it doesn't, YouTube for "big cat on train tracks".) it's difficult to argue with this one.
For me, I still don't think thats enough proof (and I DO think there are big cats in the UK)
It doesn't seem to have the right flow in its gait to be a big cat - it has too much swagger and not enough nonchelance! Its only when it leaps up at 16sec ish does it look like it could be, but overall it just looks far too domestic to me. Also, its behaviour is odd - why would it cross the tracks, go into cover then come back and walk along the tracks like it does?
Do we know where it was filmed? I'd be inclined to say its a large domestic mog (and I have a HUGE one - he is 11kg but "should be" around 9kg) and a kid sized railway...
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If I hadn't seen one I'd be as doubtful as anyone else. But i have and I wasn't on my own. My brother and his wife were with me. It was about 10 years ago near bangor on dee where they lived at the time
About 300 yards away walking down a hedge line. As it passed in front of a gate it was clear how tall it was. We tried to get closer but it disappeared. The 3 of us know it was a big cat and still talk about it. Like others I spend my life largely outdoors and am surprised I haven't seen one again. There may not be many but 10 years ago there was definitely one out there
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only one person sees them because somethimes they catch them when they're out hunting. Its all by chance really, I think there are small breeding populations in england/wales, but not on a big enough scale for people to notice.
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I have a HUGE one
Oh yeah, enough showing off. Lets keep it serious ;) That my friends, is a cat. A real danger if you are a mouse.
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Every now and again, round here, there is a sighting of what is described as a huge cat, size of a panther. On one occasion it went in someones cat flap. A search with guns was organised, not sure why as no one was hurt, but it was not found. These sightings have been going on for probably 30 years. Then a few years back, a local farmer said he had seen a large black cat sunbathing on the rocks on the moor behind his field.
One Sunday morning my husband and I were riding over the moor by this farmers land. Very quiet, no one around. I looked up to the rocks, and lying there was ....yep .... a huge black sleek animal. We sat and watched it for ages. Much bigger than your domestic cat, definitely not a dog. Did not report it, as whatever it was, I did not want it chased and shot :)
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My husband took a wobbly vid on his phone years ago of a beast of some sort walking along a field boundary on the farm. It looked about size of a lab, but with a really long, thick tail... He got close and closer to it until it became clear that it was in fact our neighbours fluffy black cat with its shadow projected closely on the boundary. But was quite convincing from a distance.
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pretty much every time one is seen, its always by someone on their own
neither has any other hunter in the whole country
It's always some random walker, or someone just having a potter about that 'bumps' into one quite by accident
Sorry, I believe that these statements are not quite correct....There have been several reported incidents of where 2 or more people have witnessed a 'sighting'.
I likewise have hunted extensively in the SE/SW UK, both day and nightime and I have come across pretty much all forms of natural wildlife during those 'persuits' but admittedly no big cats - the one and only occasion which I stated was when I was driving.
I agree with WBF that 'sightings' by people are purely by chance, after all, if there are big cats I'm sure they would be shy, alert, careful and stealthy predators only going abroad to hunt (normally nocturnally) when they felt safe in their environment, if they percieved any threat they would 'go to ground' and hole up till they felt safe again.
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I've posted on this subject on the "What's Killing My Sheep" link but I have no doubt that what both I and my neighbour saw was a black panther. If you live in an area as heavily wooded as ours you would only come across such a creature by chance, if you were far away or downwind and out of sight. I don't know how long big cats would live in the wild under optimum conditions, but there's plenty of shelter and plenty to eat around here.
I'm actually more worried about the possibility of a disease outbreak in the wild boar roaming the Forest of Dean - they've no idea how many - probably thousands.
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Not sure on this one but it could be possible. As for not seeing them, how many see the wildlife around them.
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Is anyone going to come up with a plausible answer as to why no hound pack, or anyone hunting with dogs or lamping / night vision shooting has seen one. I understand why someone having a little walk with their lab and shotgun isn't going to see them. . . . . .. but when hunting with proper dogs. . . . . . I just think it would be inevitable.
As to who really sees the wildlife around them. Very true! But i'd pretty much guarantee that if there was a big cat in any piece of woodland, forestry, valley, moorland etc etc that we drew with the dogs, looking for old charlie, or boar etc. . . . . . it would be found. Either because it was killed, treed, or because it killed a couple of dogs.
An example is the boar. . . . . very few people see them. Yet I could take you out now and with the right team pretty much guarantee that we would see some, and if you fancied, you could give it a stroke lol.
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panthers are creatures of stealth, they know if anyone is coming and can hide where they can't be found, no matter how good the dog can smell. They're fast and know their habitat like the back of their paw, hence why not very often they're seen. I have heard people, someone on here in fact, that they have come across them by complete surprise to both parties, I rather think that if you had dogs with you they would be able to smell them quite easily. Its by chance that you come across one now and again. I think there probably is a breeding population in the UK, but not very significant to notice at all (probably the odd one or two). Which reminds me does anyone remember the beast of boncath? Did they ever catch it?
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I understand why someone having a little walk with their lab and shotgun isn't going to see them. . . . . .. but when hunting with proper dogs. . . . . . I just think it would be inevitable
I'm sorry if this is daft but we only have one hound pack here and limited gun dog owners so my sample size is small :)
Our hound pack when they are out on the drag hunts are NOT quiet and I'd guess that is part of it. Even when they aren't all chuntering to themselves or indicating they've found the scent, just because there are so many of them they are noisy. Stealth isn't needed when you can follow your nose!
When I've seen working springers and labs when they are in the field, again when they are in the undergrowth they aren't quiet - crashing about in the undergrowth looking, and even on the retrieve when focused there is noise and that's not counting the shooting.
I've never watched a lurcher hunt so I can't comment on that, but also both the activities above carry a pretty big scent burden attached to them too which will be a heads up too - multiple dogs (and people/horses) will be hard to miss and I'd also imagine there is a smell associate with shooting residue?
I'd imagine that if there was a cat in an area, it would be pretty familiar with what noises (and smells) are normal and what aren't. Most of the sightings do seem to be accidental findings when neither party are particularly doing anything and paths cross - presumably they are down wind and virtually silent for whatever reason, even those out walking a dog or two.
I know Boone Smith (as an eg) use dogs to tree and capture puma in America but I'd imagine its because there are more of them, the dogs know the scent to look for, and I'd imagine he has far more fails then you'd expect?
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Without being funny. . . . . I don't think you've quite got the right idea of how it works in many places. Regardless of whether the cat can smell / hear the dogs coming, its going to get scented, and its going to get hunted until some kind of conclusion. There is no hiding. I take as my measure the wild boar we have here, they are incredibly smart and stealthy etc, and most people never see them. We see them every week a couple of times a week.
Same with cats, the wild cats in Europe, America etc, are surely as stealthy, fast and cunning as the ones we have had released over here. And yet they are regularly hunted and killed / caught.
A good team of capable dogs (and some hound packs really aren't very capable) can, with the right scenting conditions, track down most things. And they can run faster than a cat. The cats instinct would be to tree itself for safety. . . . .or it would be pushed out past observers etc.
P.S not all hound packs come with lots of daft folk on horses wearing red.
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:santariding: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :cat::dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog:
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Has anyone ever thought that they have 'heard' a big cat? OH and I did, a few years ago, hear 'something'.
We could only describe it as the throaty sound that you hear big cats :cat: make on TV. 'It' ran past the lounge windows late one evening making the sound as it went. Both jumped up and ran to the window but it had gone. OH went outside and could hear 'it' padding along the hedge on the other side of the lane.
Would love to know what it was. Not a fox or dog.
Do badgers ever make that type of sound? :thinking: Never heard anything like it, before or since.
We are in Mid Wales.
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Like I say I have limited experience with hunting.
But surely when out hunting, the dogs are looking for specific scents, not just following whichever takes their fancy? And surely in order to follow those scents, they do so as there is some reward for them that has been re-enforced? That's what I am not following in you saying they would get scented - I agree they would, but not that they would become the quarry just because they were scented. Also, when out are you looking up every tree you pass?!
And I do think a numbers game comes into it too - you will hunt and capture more if a population is larger.
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I have joined (having been reading for ages) just to post that I've seen big cats. 2 now, one I am certain of and one I am less certain but pretty sure.
First was in 2009 I was out exercising a seasoned hunter at about 7am. Same route I'd been doing in the summer for the last three years. Came around the corner on a lane with tall hedges each side. The horse froze, I looked up to see what was there as he is pretty bomb proof and there about 100m away was a panther. There as plain as day walking away from me. It turned left and went through an open gate into a field so I got the chance to see it walking and in profile before it disappeared. I went forward and as I passed the gate I looked in the gate but couldn't see anything. That was in Wiltshire and I am 100% sure that's what I saw. The next time was in 2011 walking with my dog across Cannock Chase. And about 400m looking down on the edge of a plantation I'm sure I saw one come out for about 20m and go back in. This one I am less sure about but only because it was against a dark background and a lot shorter time. I have no idea if these were just random cats or a 'breeding population' but they definitely were there! (Or I'm a complete fruit loop! :innocent:)
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When I am out at night in winter, I can often see pheasants roosting in the bare branches against moonlight sky. I doubt even Porterlauren could miss a Leopard in a tree in daylight!
Mixed packs of dogs used rough shooting etc draw mixed cover from brambles to woodland to bracken and hunt what ever is there, I can't see any jackrussel worth its salt turning down the chance to chase the biggest cat its ever seen!
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When I am out at night in winter, I can often see pheasants roosting in the bare branches against moonlight sky. I doubt even Porterlauren could miss a Leopard in a tree in daylight!
Mixed packs of dogs used rough shooting etc draw mixed cover from brambles to woodland to bracken and hunt what ever is there, I can't see any jackrussel worth its salt turning down the chance to chase the biggest cat its ever seen!
Fair enough, didn't consider people using mixed packs including jack rats :)
And I wasn't exactly thinking of bare branched trees :roflanim:
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Nutterly-uts - Well. . . . our gun dogs, would show some interest in the scent, might have a little explore, may flush it. . . . but more than likely wouldn't push it enough, and would lose interest, allowing the cat to make good its escape / evasion.
However. . . . in my experience, even proper mounted packs of hounds, will riot on new and exciting scents, and things like cat scent, tend to drive them nuts. It's as much a case as breaking them to scents, as it is training them to it. So a fresh scent of a beast they don't know is going to most likely drive them nuts.
And as for the kind of packs I hunt with. . . . . . if its there, they will hunt it, from a rat to a wild boar. . . . and pretty much without exception, they hate cats. Ive treed enough feral cats to know how it goes. . . . you locate all of the dogs at the base of a tree going nuts at the feral spitting and hissing from the branches. I imagine it'd be very similar but on a larger scale lol.
For the record, our own particular mooching pack, when at its largest would consist of a few terriers (russels, patter dales, lake lands and cross breeds), some small hound types, and several lurchers. Not much can avoid them if they want to find it.