The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: SallyN on September 10, 2015, 10:06:49 am
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Blimey you'd think I'd not be still making rookie mistakes after five years keeping sheep but...
I keep my ram lambs in with their mums un-castrated, partly because I find castrating with rings really difficult to do, partly because I don't see the point in putting them through the additional stress & discomfort of castrating (and losing the extra meat weight) when I'm only taking them to the abattoir anyway.
So... at the beginning of September they turned 5 months and I weaned them. I realise this is about a month too late - normally you would wean at 4 months but for some reason I had it in my head it was 5 months and was brought to my senses when I spotted middle ram lamb pawing at his mum.
Now my oldest and best ewe is looking really big - had a feel of her today and there's definitely something moving in there. Don't think it's wind.
But given that it's moving around I'd say she's a lot more than a month gone. In fact I'd be surprised if she had more than a couple of months to go - she's really pretty large and carrying very oddly (high up). It couldn't be anything other than pregnancy could it?
And is it possible, or likely, for a ram lamb to impregnate their mums at two months old? If so - in future years do I need to wean the lambs even earlier than 4 months? I've heard of weaning at 12 weeks, which is around the three month mark - but if I'm right about this ewe the tup got her aged about 8 weeks. That sounds awfully young to be weaning?
It's not the end of the world: she'll lamb in November but we have lots of grass and a mild climate (Somerset). So as long as they're a couple of months old by the time the cold weather hits in January I think we'll be OK. Both going to the knackers whether ram or ewe lambs as I won't have inbred in my flock. Sigh....
And an additional problem: what would you do about getting a ram in this year? It might well be that if the ram lamb got his mum he might have got the other ewes too... there are another 4, though one is this year's ewe lamb so I'd imagine she wouldn't have been able to take him? So do you think I should bother getting a ram in this November as I usually do? Or is it all a bit too late...!!
They're Dorset Downs, famed for their ability to breed any time of year, but I'm currently thinking that may not be such an advantage after all!! :rant:
Any advice for avoiding this happening next year much appreciated.... sigh....
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It could be rumen contractions if very high up. 2 months is not old enough to be fertile, so if they are pregnant and at the stage you can feel the pregnancy - the lambs are not the daddies.
She is either empty or caught by a marauding ram, suggest a scan at the vets (small animal scanner is fine) and then go and get a ram ;)
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oow its a shame your not closer as this one definitely needs discussing over coffee and cake!
As Me says you need to scan first and foremost to establish,
a - is she pregnant
b - is everyone pregnant
c - how pregnant are they
This will answer your second question about whether to bring a tup in this year.
How far pregnant they are will help you eliminate your ram lambs. I dont think they are guilty. I put my breeding rams in at the end of Sept and the ewes are tupped by early Oct. I have them scanned in January and all that is visable is the nodules on the placenta. You cant actually see foetal lambs and the vet certainly couldnt feel anything at 3 months in to gestation.
I wouldnt expect lactating sheep to be mating sheep and certainly not a gestating sheep. So even if your boys are fertile at a young age it takes two to tango. The ewes would have to be cycling and willing to stand for tupping.
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I would get a ram in and raddle him, let him loose on the girls if they are marked you have your answer.
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I don't think one of the ram lambs is the daddy of an 80-day foetus, no.
Just wanted to sing my usual record... :innocent:
Lactation is not a contraceptive. Ewes can and do get pregnant while still feeding lambs.
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Be very surprised if she is in lamb to her own lamb but life is full of surprises.
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As I'm new to this too I'm hesitant to offer advice, but I noticed the other day one of my lambs 'pawing' at an ewe and generally behaving like a ram even though I did ring the ram lambs - but then I looked a bit closer and realised it was a ewe lamb doing the pawing so guessed it may be just some dominance behaviour.
In my (very limited) experience I'd say you're fairly safe up to 5 months anyway, though if you want to be certain I suppose you'd separate before that.
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Do you keep shearlings or older ewe lambs in with the sheep? Could it be that you may have missed a ram lamb from last year? One of my neighbours Dorset rams got in with the ewes I was culling and got them in lamb, so I had to lamb them. It turned out well anyway. Looking on the positive side you will have early lambs, get a better price for them and you will only have to buy a ram next year. Plus you have got the lambs for free.
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Thanks all for your advice - interesting re mistaking a bad case of wind for pregnancy, I actually spoke to a friend of mine who's a far more experienced shepherd and they said (trying hard not to laugh at me I suspect :D) that that's what they thought it probably was, given the circumstances. Ewes in a very well-fenced field, no sheep flocks anywhere closer than two or three fields away. So short of immaculate conception or a particularly (and indeed very nearly impossibly) precocious ram lamb I'm thinking we have a bad case of the burps.
Phew....
There's still a possibility the five-month-old lambs may have caught one or two of the other ewes but I'm thinking it's extremely unlikely more than one or at most two - and as WBF says it's not the end of the world! So I'll get the ram in as usual in November and keep my fingers crossed for no surprise arrivals....!
Thanks again - and apologies for the rookie questions. I asked my friend if you ever get to the stage where you feel like you know what you're doing with this sheep keeping malarkey and he said he's been doing it 30 years and he still feels like he hasn't a clue :roflanim:
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I have spent the last 15 years working with sheep and my husband has been all his life and we still learn new things all the time.