The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: howsono on August 21, 2015, 10:07:51 pm
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1. Buy land
2. Produce business plan
3. Request permission for temporary accommodation with zero impact
4. Be rejected
5. Request again and recieve
6. Buy animals (in my case, sheepies, piggies, wabbits, ducks, chickens, a goat, 3 donkeys and a llama - wife wants a cow but I don't like early mornings)
7. Make about 8.5k (aggricultural laborours wage) at least once in the first three years
8. At 3 year point apply for permission to build house
9. Be rejected
10. Remind them they can't because we need to look after the animals
11. Go around point 8-10 a few times before being allowed to build our low-impact eco-friendly home?
Where's it going to go wrong? I have what I feel is a sound business plan (in my head) but wife won't wiggle at the moment as she thinks the chances of not being able to live there are too high.
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Looks about right to me, think you will struggle with point no. 7
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Please buy two goats not just one
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or come to Scotland and buy a croft much easier.
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Not sure what you are going to make 8k from.... Even a total of 8k in 3 years could be a challenge from your managary of animals........
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I agree with your wife re your chances of getting permission to live on land that isn't residential land.
My friend has quite a lot of animals and she has been completely unable to get permission to live on her land even though there is a static caravan there ( legally) for her to stay in temporarily when animals are birthing
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Not sure what you are going to make 8k from.... Even a total of 8k in 3 years could be a challenge from your managary of animals........
It depends on what the business plan is. If sheepies, piggies, wabbits etc ARE the business plan then yes, it's going to be a challenge. However, from your introduction post howsono, I wonder if you have other plans too?
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Looks about right to me, think you will struggle with point no. 7
That's actually the bit im least worried about! (a) there'll be additional income from the lovely tourists and (b) I'll have a separate income - the small holding will be primarily run by my wife and I'll be there full time during our busy periods.
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Please buy two goats not just one
But then if I run away from one, the other might be waiting in ambush!
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Not sure what you are going to make 8k from.... Even a total of 8k in 3 years could be a challenge from your managary of animals........
We are building a tourist visitor area - the animals are a small but for me important part of it; eventually we want to be self sufficient as part of the project as well.
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I agree with your wife re your chances of getting permission to live on land that isn't residential land.
My friend has quite a lot of animals and she has been completely unable to get permission to live on her land even though there is a static caravan there ( legally) for her to stay in temporarily when animals are birthing
I thought that was a legal requirement? I thought there was supposed to be a housing shortage in this country. We'd never be able to afford something with even a wrecked farm house on - takes land from 10s of thousands to 100s of thousands. Part of wanting to move away from London is not being able to afford a nice home.
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I agree with your wife re your chances of getting permission to live on land that isn't residential land.
My friend has quite a lot of animals and she has been completely unable to get permission to live on her land even though there is a static caravan there ( legally) for her to stay in temporarily when animals are birthing
I thought that was a legal requirement? I thought there was supposed to be a housing shortage in this country. We'd never be able to afford something with even a wrecked farm house on - takes land from 10s of thousands to 100s of thousands. Part of wanting to move away from London is not being able to afford a nice home.
If it were that easy lots of people would be doing it
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making the money wouldn't be a problem if you have the right marketing ideas, you will also need to forget about the house 1st…and concentrate on the business, life is a gamble, the route you are taking is a hard route, and so it should be, or every tom dick or harry will buy land , buy a few animals and build a house…
i think the route should be hard….then at least we will have real traditional farms ,if people who take this route
as for making money….if you just buy one sheep, fatten it up and sell it at market, depending on the day, you may make no profit at all…you may even loose, or you may open up a online meat supply and sell half a lamb or a few joints, this will give you a better return…per sheep..or if you really put your mind to it…offer spit roasts…yes there will be a bigger outlay, but you may get 350 pounds per sheep or 500 pounds per pig… this naturally means more work…but if you have a dream, you need to work hard to make it work, you need to think outside the box..
as i said above..1st and for most the farm should be the priority, not the house,
is it possible..yes it is…its also legal, and very hard, you will need to study planing laws,
if you wish to build a traditional farm, i wish you all the very best
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I wouldn't say we want to go traditional - or maybe far back into historical tradition: the animals are primarily for my stomach (oh and the kids and wife), although wouldn't be averse to moving in to selling the odd bit of spare. They're also part of the attraction bringing in visitors which is where the money comes from.
The focus isn't on the house; Well - sort of - I don't really want to build a house in the traditional sense of the word. More an eco-friendly movable home. Think Kevin McCloud's man made home. Only... more. We're a family of four, so couldn't live in a shed but do want a low-impact home to live on and see no reason for it to be built on an enormous lump of ecology-killing concrete.
It's one thing saying the path should be hard - but it also needs to be attainable. Making a living, building a business, living off-grid and at one with nature (I'm not a tree hugger by the way!), all of this is hard. Very hard. It shouldn't be hard persuading the council to follow the rules or having to rethink your ideas because your shed is 2' in the wrong direction. It's also not right to spend 3-5 years and your life savings doing the above, and then have some jobsworth tell you to get off your own land because he doesn't feel like passing your application now. This is my wife's worry. If we're doing this - we need somewhere to live. We can't afford to buy a house in a town/village AND some land AND set up a business. We also couldn't afford to go through this and then after 3 years have to sell our land and livestock - and throw away our investment at a massive loss.
So yes - hard is one thing - but it shouldn't be a gamble.
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If it were that easy lots of people would be doing it
So how do others do it? How did you manage? I can't believe this is the province of the rich, or those that inherit?
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http://tlio.org.uk/chapter7/ (http://tlio.org.uk/chapter7/)
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So how do others do it? How did you manage? I can't believe this is the province of the rich, or those that inherit?
For us it's by one of us working full time to pay the mortgage etc.
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So how do others do it? How did you manage? I can't believe this is the province of the rich, or those that inherit?
For us it's by one of us working full time to pay the mortgage etc.
For us its a full time worker and a part time worker (plus studying allegedly full time, plus family, plus animal care and land management). A petting farm will need a lot of 'elf and safety stuff as well. I wish you good luck.
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As above 24/7 work by both or one or whoever is fit at the time, lambing here and at the farm up the road and we basically do what we can when we can saying that we wouldn't change it for the world but then I'm not materialistic :thumbsup:
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And we both work elsewhere too!
I think you may need to add planning etc permission for a petting zoo here too... Heath and safety regs alone could make this a non starter.
I wish you personally good luck with your venture ....and hope you can in some way achieve your dreams.
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somehow, i think you may struggle, without a farming/agri business,
we were only able to take this route when the children had fled the nest, and our wage went towards the farm instead of the children :)
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And we could only do it on retirement.
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How do other s do it? Good question. My family (like most others) spent at least 300 years as labourers on someone else's estate. No evidence of anyone owning as much as an acre let alone the house they lived it until the 1900s. Then 100 years of toil in the city and 3 generations of graft and risk and I can afford a dozen acres and a house to boot. I am slightly amused by some of my farmer neighbours whose attitude to land is a little different as they have inherited. To some extent I respect it and to some extent as a newbie I thin why should they feel superior because their ancestors just sat in one place and accumulated land?
Your endeavour will never be easy because there has always been more people wanting land and houses than room or social willingness to accommodate them. Very best of luck though because with that and perseverance you'll succeed :fc:
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We did it by waiting until our children were independent, selling the family home ( well, tbh we are currently on a hefty 2nd mortgage to buy this smallholding until our family home sells god knows when :'( ) and both of us continuing with our f-t employment even though my husband is now 67. Theres currently no plan for him to retire from the day job because, to be frank, we cant afford it.
We also do everything on our 9 acres ourselves, which has resulted in quite a bit of unexpected expense in plant and equipment, and we were not complete novices in land management. But its different when the condition of the land is 100% your responsibility. Its only you who will do all the jobs and remember to schedule all those jobs. And , WOW, are there one hell of a lot of jobs!
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your dream sounds lovely but such a minefield.
I know building regs/planning laws are different between Scotland and England but did you buy the land without first checking if you could build a dwelling on it? Most land that is sold up here is sold with planning already in place by the vendor.
As for the hands on/tourist thing - I have no personal experience but friends of mine had a small rare breeds farm but after one very minor incident they had to shup up shop as the insurance went through the roof, and like most of us they both have to work (she teaches, he drives a bus) to be able to maintain themselves.
One thing is for sure, it's hard work and certainly not the reserve of the rich. Is there anyone else that is doing something similar that you can visit and talk to?