The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: m3joeEm on August 16, 2015, 05:40:39 pm
-
So I have taken the plunge and have purchased 42 Suffolk x Mule hoggets ;D :fc: to suit my upland/hill farm . they still have a bit of growing to do and will run with my 28 other Suffolk x texel ewes. I used a texel tup last year with the Suffolk x texel ewes and this resulted in some pretty good lambs for market. However i am interested in the idea of a closed flock and I am hoping to start breeding my own replacements. I am pondering the use of a Suffolk Ram to put with a small number the flock to try and produce some Suffolk ewes for replacements or possibly a blue Leicester Ram to produce big long ewe lambs. Has any one any other suggestions for crossing these ewes with to produce quality replacements? Charolais? Just putting it out there, I will not be tupping for another 7 weeks but would appreciate any opinions from TAS members.
-
Congrats on your lovely new ewes :wave:
For maternal replacements I would most definitely not use a charollais, speak to some of the top charollais breeders in the UK and they would advise you against it, they are a terminal sire
I would not use a BFL or suffolk either, suffolk is going too much of a pure terminal breed, will leave dopey(er) ewes and dopey(er) lambs
If looking for purely maternal replacements then I would use a lleyn or a romney or even a composite breed such as the highlander or an aberdale or one of the maternal bred rams from logie durno
http://www.logiedurnosheep.co.uk/ (http://www.logiedurnosheep.co.uk/)
As your ewes have suffolk in them the maternal bred lambs should finish well enough and any ewe lambs you do not want should be able to fetch a premium in the market
Choose a lleyn with good EBV figures and good length to him, some of them even carry the MYOmax muscleing gene, I reckon you couldn't go far wrong with one of those, should produce a good size and highly maternal ewe lamb out of your ewes
-
Since these sheep are already 25% BFL then increasing this would be a mistake IMO , same for Suffolk as already 50% . Charollais can produce good females on the right land . Since you are in Ireland then Belclare needs a look ..
-
Wouldn't touch a charley with a barge pole if I wanted to keep back ewes.
Same with the BFL. . . . . the breed has VERY few upsides, and those that it does can be found else where!
Keepers isn't far off the mark.
Too much terminal in the mix for me, but if I was going to try to create a 'terminal type' maternal ewe, starting with a suffolk x mule ewe, i'd be having a serious look at a NZ Texel, with good maternal figures. Or as said, a LLeyn.
-
Personally, I would avoid the Charlie, poor maternal cross ewe IME - but others have had better results apparently, Suffolk are bloody awful IMO, big heads, big legs and not a lot else. A friend of mine however swears by the Suffolk/mule/more Suffolk combo - but his stocking rate is uneconomically low and concentrate bill very high.
Lleyn are a good ewe if you can find a type that suits you and your ground, but I am biased ;)
-
thanks for the replies. I have a lot to think about. Definitely not going for the Suffolk idea any more thanks for the advice. the lleyn sounds good if i got one with the right ebvs. can picture nice speckle face lambs from them
-
Now come on ME. . . . tell us what you really think. :P
-
or maybe I will have to just keep buying in replacements :-\
-
Now come on ME. . . . tell us what you really think. :P
Put it this way, I spent money (yes real actual money) on a Lleyn ram yesterday... thats all I'm saying
-
What. . . . . 'money' money?
Bloody hell mate, I've got to stop buying sheep from you, all that cash is going to your head.
To the op - A closed flock is the ultimate dream (or should be) of every sensible sheep farmer. But the ETERNAL issue is how to keep a closed flock, where the lambs can both be kept back as great replacements and also be fattened and reach a good price.
I plan to close my flock in a few years in terms of replacements, but I think I will always have to buy in terminal rams to produce fat lambs, as I intend to run a three way split flock system.
-
Following this with not a lot to say :) Friend in NI is hoping to move into sheep so may end up PM'ing you next year for a couple of sheep to start off with :)
-
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo not money money! GOD! Just "money" and my version of "money" at that.. steady on! Phew I need a sit down and a strong cup of tea at the thought of it..
-
Thank gawd for that matey, I was starting to think you were getting carried away with the price of lamb being what it is. I know we're all raking it in, but if you start buying tups for 'money money' folk will rumble us. . .
-
What about cheviot? I know cheviot x suffolk can produce smashing ewe lambs because the farmer i bought mine off had some and they were great (but too expensive) but i wonder what about cheviot x suffolk mules.
-
all this money talk is making me jealous :huff:
-
I like a cheviot, and a cheviot mule is a decent enough sheep. Cant see the harm in a little bit of suffolk in them.
Originally it was all mules and the suffolk and texel x mules only started being kept and used when the prices went bad, so folk kept them as replacements rather than selling them for peanuts and then buying in expensive mules.
So you'll never know unless you try!
As for the money - the only upside of the current situation is that when your dragging a dead fat lamb across a field, its only 50 quid you're throwing to the hounds rather than £75!!!!! And I bought some very cheap long keep stores!
-
I used a charley once....that's all I'm saying ???? personally a good texel you will always win I think just so much s**t out there all been feed since day one. My ewes are all cross breeds cheviot Welsh texel mix an I used a texel ram but he has lived on his teeth alone lambs quick growth rate good shape replacement are good size sheep an get the good maternal from mothers side. But like I say so many I only eat hard feed texel out there it's hard to get a ram that isn't a wimp
-
I have a texel, but unfortunately he hasnt the length and sheer size/shape i would like for making replacements (bought him last year when i started into sheep properly and wasnt entirely familiar with the breed and what to look for). In saying that i must be happy he was fruitful and threw decent market lambs. Ideally i would replace him but cant really afford to this year ???
-
We ran some Charollais across our commercials (Texel types, originating from Swaley Mules and Hexham Blackie Mules predominantly) for three years and kept the ewe lambs we liked. They are super ewes for producing easy-lambing fast-maturing fat lambs, hitting the top grades. All the lambs with some Charollais in them weigh more than they look, so finish a couple of weeks (at least) faster than those without any Charollais.
We carefully chose Charollais tups with wool on their heads, and mostly the lambs are not too bare for our outdoor-lambing Cumbrian upland farm. We do jacket them if it's cold and wet weather is forecast.
Our best fat lambs from these ewes are sired by a Dutch Texel - a squatter sheep than the Texel, finer fleece, shorter legs. We find them to produce small active lambs that quickly grow into brick outhouses. These ewes do well put to a regular Texel too.
Lleyn produced too many multiple births for our farm.
-
I have a texel, but unfortunately he hasnt the length and sheer size/shape i would like for making replacements
I run small ewes, little 55-60kg Lleyn. Are you sure you want to pay to keep big heavy sheep with extra muscle running around? It all costs. Also "sheer size" why do you need massive ewes? Here most lambs are sold to Dunbia who don't pay for more than 21kg dw so why breed stuff that isn't finished until 50Kg?
-
For me personally the suffolk x mule and suffolk x texel ewes are way too big and heavy.
If you intend keeping a closed flock I'd suggest that you keep something that is commercially viable. Sheep should be keeping you, not the other way around! and as Me says, why produce a lamb that the majority of markets don't want (over 21Kg dw).
-
We have a closed flock (well, apart from an occasional new ram). The Southdowns do well here, although we're on a hilltop exposed to high winds from west, north and east. The Badger Face are put to the SD tup every other year and produce strong lambs sold as stores at market - scan out at 180% most years and all survive. The only feed we give any sheep is to ewes around lambing time. Gineral opinion seems to be (and we get a lot of feedback from folks who hire our SD rams) that the SD in the mix doesn't bring in lambing problems and lambs are sturdy and grow away well.
-
What is this stuff you call money money?? Hehe
We ll never have a closed flock here, we will always buy in rams, we are Suffolk x lleyn and lleyn type bound this year.
Then back to the lleyn i think.
But Me I STILL want one of your boys :innocent: For our younger lasses
-
We use a texel tup on our Suffolk x texel ewes and the few Suffolk x mule ewes and produce lambs that are commercially viable ;)
-
Forgot about the NZ texel!
That should leave you with some good fat lambs as well as some maternal hardy ewes
Also agree with the posts saying about a slightly smaller ewe, specially for a hill farm/land, heavy lambs are being penalized heavily within the market places with the best price per kilo being standard and medium weight lambs
Unless you are using a large framed/milky ewe and a small compact tup such as a beltex or a charmoise to get a lamb that finishes around the 39-42kilo mark, however this means less ewes to the acre
But better cull prices for the ewes :thinking:
Its all swings and roundabouts
-
on suffolk x texel and suffolk x mule, we use a ile de france ram, leaves a well carcassed lamb with a good size and it also easy enough lambed, just if you wanna try something different, i kept all the ewe lambs off this cross an have done extremely well with them, we had the lambs finished early on grass and off to mart just as quick.
-
But Me I STILL want one of your boys :innocent: For our younger lasses
Always willing to help ;)
-
Excellent.
:wave: