The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: Thyme on August 14, 2015, 12:52:56 pm
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One of my shearling rams has developed a bad limp in his right fore. It started as a milder limp about 5 days ago, when he was still putting some weight on it, and then worsened so he was holding it up entirely and going on three legs. 2 days ago I tipped him and looked at his hoof thoroughly -- no sign of anything wrong there. A little ragged and muddy but no irritation in the cleft, nothing stuck in it, no pockets, no swelling or heat that I could detect, nothing that looked like infection or damage. I covered it with blue spray anyway, and injected him with intramuscular Alamycin appropriate to his weight. The rest of his leg looks all right, nothing dangling strangely, nothing obviously swollen in ankle, knee, or shoulder. Today he seems much the same, possibly a little bit improved but it's hard to be certain. Aside from limping he seems to be doing well enough, he's grazing and cudding and hanging out with his friends, and is still motivated to come over and be petted. I'm trying to judge what should be the next step. Options seem to be:
1) Ask the vet to come see him -- but not sure whether there'd be anything for them to do?
2) Take him to the vet -- but a trailer ride doesn't seem like the best idea under the circumstances.
3) Ask the vet for anti-inflammatory to give him.
4) Confine him to keep him from moving around -- but that would also require a trailer ride, and I think he'll be happier staying where he is, which is a reasonably safe and secure pasture.
5) Let him be and just keep monitoring closely.
My best guess is that it's either a shoulder injury from slipping on the muddy hillside or from a fight with one of the other boys (although they seem to be getting along fine), or it's an infection that's deep inside enough not to show?
Comments appreciated. My vet is open Saturday mornings so I won't have to wait until Monday if they are needed, but I hesitate to call them out just to look at him and go "yup, wait and see".
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2 OR 5 depends when you need him ready to work
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Won't need him to work until November, plenty of time.
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Keep monitoring, and have another look - maybe you missed something.
If it continues and there is no improvement at all take him to the vet in the trailer. If he starts to make improvement then just wait. Have you seen them fighting at all?
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I haven't seen them fighting but, that said, he's number two in the dominance hierarchy, so it's certainly possible that he and number one had a bit of a shoving match when I wasn't there to see, even though normally number one is a benevolent dictator and they all get along fine. I'm confident enough that he's not being picked on now.
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Have you given him any Metacam?
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Have you given him any Metacam?
No, only the antibiotic. Metacam is anti-inflammatory/pain relief? He's okay in himself, not in so much pain that it's stopping him from behaving normally (aside from the limp). But he is very tame so it's easy to catch him and dose him without stressing him too much more, if giving him Metacam or something else is worthwhile.
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You'd only be able to get Metacam from the vet, and the vet would probably need to see the animal in order to prescribe it anyway...
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If in doubt I give pen and strep and an antiflamitory like Loxicom,
give the pen and strep every day for 5 days and then see what happens
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I'd monitor him for a week then take another look. Just like us they can pull things and it gets better with time.
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I'd get the vet to see him, either take him in or vet out. If he's that lame you really need to know what your dealing with instead of guessing
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If in doubt I give pen and strep and an antiflamitory like Loxicom,
give the pen and strep every day for 5 days and then see what happens
Can't see the point in injecting stuff into him when you don't know what is wrong.
I'd get the vet to see him, either take him in or vet out. If he's that lame you really need to know what your dealing with instead of guessing
I agree with Farmvet, I would put him in the trailer and take him to the vet.
Can't see the point in injecting stuff into him when you don't know what is wrong.
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Thanks all. I will monitor him until Monday and then if he hasn't shown definite improvement I will see about the vet.
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Hi Thyme.
Just my own personal views on the posts above.
It started as a milder limp about 5 days ago, when he was still putting some weight on it, and then worsened so he was holding it up entirely and going on three legs.
The main worry for me is that it's got worse over the 5 days, suggesting that there could be a build up of infection there. I would have expected an injury or sprain to have been painful from day 1. There are Vets on here who are more qualified to advise you than I.
Can't see the point in injecting stuff into him when you don't know what is wrong.
There is logic to your point, but as he is clearly in pain, I’d personally give him something as a pain relief and anti inflammatory!
I'd monitor him for a week then take another look. Just like us they can pull things and it gets better with time.
Absolutely, give him sufficient time to see if he can get over it without further intervention after the initial treatment. A journey to and from the vet in a trailer could make an injury worse for him.
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Hi Thyme.
Just my own personal views on the posts above.
It started as a milder limp about 5 days ago, when he was still putting some weight on it, and then worsened so he was holding it up entirely and going on three legs.
The main worry for me is that it's got worse over the 5 days, suggesting that there could be a build up of infection there. I would have expected an injury or sprain to have been painful from day 1.
Yes, that is a main point of worry for me too. It hasn't continually got worse, I would say over the past few days it has either stayed the same or possibly gotten a little better, but it was unusual that it got worse over the first couple of days. Yesterday when I checked on him he and the others were in the wooded bit of the pasture that is very sloping and muddy, where they like to go when it's been raining for the tree cover. So although I was able to go right up and handle him, and he got up and stood when I arrived, due to the footing there being risky I didn't want to push him to climb down so I could see him walk more. He was putting the foot down while he was standing, but I think just lightly to rest it and help his balance, not with much weight on it. I expect I'll be able to better judge today.
I am worried about him keeping his balance in the trailer, especially as it's not the smoothest and straightest of roads between me and the vet, even if I go slow and careful. But I'll see what the vet thinks about that on Monday. If I'm lucky they'll have some other nearby farm visit and can stop in for a quick look.
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Could you transport him in a dog crate or similar, in the car. He's not that big.
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Could you transport him in a dog crate or similar, in the car. He's not that big.
If it were one of the tup lambs I would, but this one is 1.5 years old, he's 40kg. Sire of some of the ones you saw :)
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If in doubt I give pen and strep and an antiflamitory like Loxicom,
give the pen and strep every day for 5 days and then see what happens
Can't see the point in injecting stuff into him when you don't know what is wrong.
So If you do not know what is wrong its best to let the animal suffer until you can get a vet around?
If I rung the vet and said one of my tups was limping, he would just turn around and tell me inject it with painkiller and antibiotic and get back to him if it doesn't take effect
I thought that was the point of farmers keeping medicines on site, to self treat in order to prevent suffering and welfare issues within the flock
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Mmmm yes when it comes to a.bs and topical, but not anti inflammatorys on site, vet only.If an animal is limping I don't see what giving antibiotics is going to do, if there's nothing wrong with his feet or there's no swelling and heat, sign of infection.........mHe's probably done it joshing with the others and he s pulled summat. I d pen him up and see what vets says and does.
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I had one lame for a few days, nothing to see and still pottering around with the others, got vet out and turned out she had a break below her hock.
I sprayed the foot etc but after no improvement got the vet, glad I did, she is in a cast with a good prognosis
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Does your trailer have internal partitions? If you can squash him up a bit, it may stop him bouncing around on the journey.
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Well I would cautiously say that he has improved over yesterday and today. Still very much limping, but now putting a little weight on it rather than always holding it up. Still no visible signs of what's wrong aside from the limp itself, and still good in himself. I'll see how he is tomorrow morning and decide then on whether to get the vet or wait a bit more to see if improvement continues.
I had one lame for a few days, nothing to see and still pottering around with the others, got vet out and turned out she had a break below her hock.
I sprayed the foot etc but after no improvement got the vet, glad I did, she is in a cast with a good prognosis
Thanks for that information, that's the sort of thing that's really helpful to know.
Does your trailer have internal partitions? If you can squash him up a bit, it may stop him bouncing around on the journey.
It does, and I hadn't thought of that, so thank you. It's a p6e with one internal partition, so if I have him in the smaller part that likely will keep him more contained and supported.
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If he continues to improve by himself, I would let him be. If he were in a commercial flock that'ts what would happen, and never known one die of limping ;-)
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Could you transport him in a dog crate or similar, in the car. He's not that big.
If it were one of the tup lambs I would, but this one is 1.5 years old, he's 40kg. Sire of some of the ones you saw :)
Sorry, not thinking straight. :dunce:
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I have until today been biting my tongue about this thread but I can't help my self but post, the animal is lame! Has been for well over a week! You havnt the slightest idea why yet your discussing weather or not to transport it to the vets your self to save a few quid??? over a week is far to long to allow an animal to suffer and is verging on neglect, you can't use ignorance as an excuse as more than a few people have said get the vet out so I can only assume the worst!
If you can't afford veterinary treatment for any animal you shouldn't have them simple!!!
Now you've said it's now less lame, this doesn't however mean that it's any less Ill or sick so please please do the right thing...
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verdifish, I appreciate your concern, but please calm down. I am not trying to avoid cost, I can afford the vet. I am concerned as I have said about the risk that a trailer ride could hurt him more. Antibiotics and hoof inspection are what my very experienced mentor does if a sheep has been lame for more than a day or two, so that is what I did. When that didn't clear it up, I came here for advice, the majority of which has been to keep monitoring him as long as he is improving, and to take him to the vet (or get the vet to him) if he is not. Given that he seems to be improving it seems most likely it is a sprain. As I have said, if he does not continue to steadily improve I will get the vet.
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verdifish, I appreciate your concern, but please calm down. I am not trying to avoid cost, I can afford the vet. I am concerned as I have said about the risk that a trailer ride could hurt him more. Antibiotics and hoof inspection are what my very experienced mentor does if a sheep has been lame for more than a day or two, so that is what I did. When that didn't clear it up, I came here for advice, the majority of which has been to keep monitoring him as long as he is improving, and to take him to the vet (or get the vet to him) if he is not. Given that he seems to be improving it seems most likely it is a sprain. As I have said, if he does not continue to steadily improve I will get the vet.
Calm down??? The fact still remains that due to your inaction for whatever reason the animal has been in pain for well over a week which is something prompt action to involve the vet could have prevented! if your sheep have been seen by the vet in the last year you could have got painkillers without a vet visit!
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I have until today been biting my tongue about this thread but I can't help my self but post
Maybe next time you shouldn't bite your tongue, and maybe then you'd be able to contribute earlier in the thread in a more reasonable tone with your advice?
There have been plenty of responses and updates in this topic, from the OP and experienced keepers. You have a view on what action should be taken now, which could have been helpful to Thyme in considering what to do next. It's far less helpful when scattered with exclamation marks and assumptions.
Only one contributor here can see the animal in question. The OP has had lots of advice, has a mentor, has updated regularly and is making a judgement about whether a trailer journey would do more harm than good.
I'm sure you were trying to do the best by the animal, and you may be absolutely correct in your advice, but you seem as determined to berate the OP as to help them.
In future please save the judgement for a PM or yourself, and stick to assisting with the topic in question - it's far more likely to have the positive effect you were presumably seeking.
(Please do not reply in this topic to me - use PM or start another topic - let's keep this on-topic.)
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Yes keep us updated Thyme, as a novice shepherdess myself it is useful to see the progress and advice. I always struggle with lame animals (e.g horses) on how much painkiller and when since if it is a sprain it can encourage them to prance around when infact a bit of limping would be better. I have only had limping sheep problems once in my year of experience, it was after the vet gave them all Heptavec in the shoulder and they all limped for 48 hours!
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The only other advice I can offer is to pen him with a mate next door so his movement is limited for a few days. Sometimes I don't agree with limiting movement as can make animals stiff but after issues with a goat kid if he is straining it more by walking to water etc this might help. Vet would only give AB and metacam as mentioned but you could manipulate the joints and squeeze gently to see if you get a reaction.
I have found vets not that great at diagnosing so I don't blame you for asking here as experience usually gets a better answer! I have a lame one but if you look closely At coronet band there is a tiny crack I think from old abscess. Dirt sometimes gets in if horn cracked so I tend to dip foot in hibiscrub solution which will kill the germs. Good luck.
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I have found vets not that great at diagnosing
Really? I'd take on a non-vet in a game of "diagnose this" and I'm pretty sure i'd win ;)
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Thanks all. I'm heading over to check on him in an hour so will see how he is this morning.
I'd like to make it extra clear that I don't think he is in pain aside from it hurting if he puts weight on that leg. Aside from the limp he is behaving absolutely normally. Using NADIS (http://www.nadis.org.uk/bulletins/pain-management-in-livestock.aspx) to check my own judgment he shows none of the behaviours on the "Recognition of pain in farm animals" list. In addition when I pet him his body is relaxed, he's not tensed up which to me would be one of the big warning signs of ongoing pain.
Regarding pain medication in general, I guess I default to what I would do for myself, which is pain relief for things that are ongoing (as opposed to the "Doctor, it hurts when I do this -- well, don't do that!" variety) or especially severe, but I generally don't take pain relief for a sprain or cut. The only time my vets have prescribed pain relief for one of my animals was Loxicom for a cat with a very badly infected paw. For comparison, I think my two ewes who had bad pinkeye earlier in the year showed more signs of needing pain relief than this boy does now, but the vet didn't suggest it then (and Alamycin fixed them up within a few days).
Also, let me go on the record as firmly pro-vet. My vets (a team of six) are great and I consult with them regularly. But part of experience is knowing when to get the vet and when to wait. If I went straight to them every time one of my fifty birds or animals had a lump or a bump or a sniffle, they'd see me every day, and even though I like them and they like me, no-one wants that. It's helpful to be able to come here and check how others make that judgment call.
In particular in this case, I haven't been certain how limited the vet would be in being able to diagnose in the field, as opposed to at the office where they have x-ray etc, but which would require that trailer ride. If the answer is that they have a van full of helpful gadgets and/or magically experienced fingers and will be able to do the needful in the field, then that is helpful to know.
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If you are talking gadgets etc that's different. I am just going from my experience 'Me' that I have vet out for lame goat, lame sheep and really poorly sheep. Poorly one died and vet had just shrugged giving some meds but had no idea and no suggestions. Lame once similar, no idea just recommended AB and metacam just in case.
I could have done that without the £60+ cost of call out and exam. However, that does not mean I don't use or call the vet! I am just more fussy as to when to make that call.
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Okay, today's update, short version: ram seems happy and still gradually improving. Took video of him on my phone, stopped in at vet to confer. Vet looked at video, listened to my description, said they could come see him and/or give me metacam for him if I wanted but as long as he was improving and seemed good in himself then me just continuing to monitor him seemed fine. She did suggest a follow up dose of Alamycin.
Long version, for those who find the details interesting or valuable: When I went over this morning he was lying down with the other rams in the sun at the top of the paddock. I walked over and stood about 2 metres from him and held out my hand. He got up, stretched, had a pee, and then came over to me for chin scratches, putting a little weight on his bad leg as he came. I used my phone to video him coming over and while he was standing for attention. Then I put the phone down and picked up his bad leg with my left hand while continuing to give chin scratches with my right. I moved his shoulder around and squeezed around it gently, he was completely relaxed, no reaction at all. Same with the knee and down the leg. At the front of his foot just above the hoof he reacted a little to pressure, just a bit of a twitch/flinch, but not pulling away. No heat that I could detect, maybe the slightest of swelling, hard to tell. No reaction to pressing the back of his foot.
So, from that I say: he's not in much pain, if he's comfortable enough to stretch and motivated to walk over just to get attention, and he doesn't react to me manipulating and squeezing his leg even though he's not restrained in any way. And it's probably not his shoulder or knee seeing as he seems completely comfortable with me moving those joints around. And he seems to be putting weight on it just another little bit more than he was yesterday, so I think he's improving but slowly and gradually.
I took the video and stopped in at my vet and asked if someone could chat with me about my lame ram to make sure I'm doing the right thing. Showed the vet the video and filled her in on the whole timeline and what I'd done each day. She said at the top of the hoof it could be a bit of infection or a hairline fracture, and they could come out and look at him if I wanted but if I was happy to keep monitoring him as long as he seemed to be improving, that should be fine too. She offered Metacam but agreed from the video and my description that it probably wasn't needed. She suggested a follow up dose of Alamycin at this stage might be sensible, so I bought a fresh bottle to be sure it was effective.
I have an additional suspicion, which I forgot to say to the vet, that it might be a bee sting. My neighbour keeps beehives next to that pasture and the pasture itself is tall grass and flowers (only grazing appropriate ones) so the bees are in there. That seems to me like it could be an explanation, although I would have thought it would have healed faster than this.
Video here https://www.youtube.com/embed/F-8NWLhWx40 (https://www.youtube.com/embed/F-8NWLhWx40)
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I would advise having another look at nadis http://www.nadis.org.uk/bulletins/pain-management-in-livestock.aspx. (http://www.nadis.org.uk/bulletins/pain-management-in-livestock.aspx.)
Disuse of a limb means its painful. Also in your video you can see the pain when the tup puts the leg forward then touches the foot to the ground quickly changes his mind and withdraws the limb. You cant really make any diagnosis from the clip. This is not being critical of your choices or vets treatment but i do question your conclusion re pain
try feeling gently around the coronary band - that's where the hair & hoof meet - for any softness or hot spots that may indicate an abscess in the hoof wall. Tubbing the foot twice daily or poulticing if youre competent at bandaging may help if there are any suspicious areas
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No question that it hurts when he puts the foot down. But I don't think it hurts aside from that, i.e. it's not the kind of constant pain that leads to the NADIS list. I think it is like when I had RSI, and it hurt to use my elbow but that meant I avoided using my elbow, I didn't need pain medication.
The coronary band is indeed where he had flinched slightly. I was feeling more on the hair side than the hoof side so I'll try exploring it some more. Thanks for the advice.
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What a sweetie :)
I'd agree that the level of discomfort when he does use it, given that he does have to use it in order to eat and not die, when it's improving so slowly, probably does warrant pain relief. Especially with such a tame boy, so there's no issue with causing more upset catching him than the pain relief warrants.
I'd also be giving him feed so that he isn't needing to walk around quite so much; with some foot issues they need to be encouraged to exercise but that type of pain may be a sprain or a fracture, so rest will help.
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As a vet, the level of pain where he won't put it on the ground is severe.
From the video, it still looks like he is very lame after over a week so this is not going to just go away.
Most likely he has a serious problem having made this little progress.
Without seeing in person my best guesses would be abscess, which may be trying to burst out around the coronary band where he is tender; to fracture of one of the bones of the foot or lower leg; to infection of one of the joints.
Pain relief in my opinion is not optional here.
If I was your vet and saw this video I'd be suggesting much more than "possibly could repeat the alamycin". At the very least poulticing for abscess, preferably a visit to look at the foot (I agree he's too lame to take to the vet) and see if a source of abscess can be found, or if the infection looks like the joint affected. Then I'd be using some strong antibiotics, antiinflammatories and strict movement restriction in a pen with food and water.
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He is a big sweetie.
Well, I must say I appreciate all the advice very much but it is also very confusing that it is so counter to what my own vet has said, so I don't really know what to make of that. Thinking things over...
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We've seen the video on computer screens; if the vet was looking at it on your phone, the pain may not have been so evident?
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Maybe so. I think I will ask the vet to come see him, that seems the only way to sort through this uncertainty.
My vet specifically looked at the bit toward the end of the video where he puts his bad foot forward and down and then picks it up again quickly, so it's not that she didn't see that. I think we're all in agreement that it hurts when he puts his foot down. Where we seem to diverge is:
1) A few days ago he was strictly holding that foot up and going on three legs, not putting his foot down at all. Now each day he is putting the foot down a little more, even though clearly it still hurts. My vet seems to say that is enough of a sign of improvement to continue antibiotics and monitoring as long as he is okay in himself. Recent advice here seems to say that lameness that is not significantly more improved after one week is much more cause for alarm and should have more serious intervention.
2) Whether pain relief is needed if the animal seems good in himself aside from the limp and is able to avoid using the lame leg while otherwise behaving normally. My vet seems okay with no, you guys are saying yes.
Anyway, I will ring the vet and ask them to come, and find out whether their recommendation changes when they've examined him in the pasture. (Although given the six of them in the practice, chances are the vet that sees him won't be the vet I conferred with yesterday).
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What a scary thread! The indiscriminate use of antibiotics, failure to attempt a proper diagnosis, speculation and myth...
The video only shows so much ..and a short snippet like that just shows lameness.
At a pinch waiting a day or two for a simple knock or sprain is one thing.. but this sheep needs a proper attempt at diagnosis - hands on by someone who knows what they're doing.
As a simple example (and I'm not suggesting that's the problem here) Both times I've had lame sheep it's turned out to be thorns in the foot....but only because i spent a heck of a long time washing feet and examining them with a hand lens - and I'm supposed to know what I'm doing. (retired SA vet). the principle is sound .start at the foot and work up.. if you find one problem then look for a second. But if you're not familiar with the degree of reaction to palpation, sensations of heat or swelling - call in someone who is.
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After 5 days and he still won't put barely any weight on it, then yeah, get the vet to look.
It is a fine line between when having limited experience and having to call the vet out at extreme cost (often more than the worth of the animal itself), and trying to fix the problem yourself. You've done the right thing by showing the video to the vet as a first step. Had it been me I would have done the second jab of Alamycin, as per your vets instructions, had a closer look at that area that you've identified as being sore, and if there was still no difference after another a day I'd get it to the vet.
It's all a learning curve, so don't take any of the criticism you get here to heart and feel that you have dealt with this wrongly.
What a cutie though :) .
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Vet is coming for 3pm, so we shall see. Thanks Foobar for the encouragement and pgkevet for the clear and direct comments ;)
Seriously, part of the question here is different expectations/culture between farmers and vets, and different groups of farmers. Where I am the farmers appreciate the vets but at the same time are a bit skeptical of them, probably more so because most of the farmers have decades more experience than the vets do (I think the oldest vet in my practice is the mid-30s one who took it over from his dad). And although I'm not skeptical of the vets, I've been mentored by the farmers.
I'm at the point now in my learning curve where I'm moving from strictly doing what my mentor does to making changes based on reading SCOPS and NADIS and similar and talking to the vets, but it's a step by step process. Also, it's pretty clear to me that the vets here are pragmatic about modifying their advice a bit to what they think the farmers here will accept, and when I go to them it's noticeable that they sometimes give me different advice at different times, I think affected by how many farmers they've already talked to that day and whether they remember I'm a newish smallholder with a science doctorate thus less skeptical of them.
I should probably remember to test their advice a little by saying "Okay, if it was your animal, is that what you would do?" to get to what they really think. I'll do that when the vet visits today.
My mentor has a shearling ram same age as mine, running with mine. A bit earlier this year his ram went similarly lame. Mentor came over, tipped him, trimmed his hoof (a point on which I have already diverged), sprayed him blue, and shot him up with intramuscular antibiotics. He didn't stop limping right away, I think it was somewhere between a week and ten days before he was back to normal, but then he was fine. So that's the example I started out from.
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Sady as with all professions (and the world in general) you'll find vets that are good, bad, indiffent and those whose moral compass is slewed by their mortgage. The public usually judge a vet more by personality than by ability.
You want to see a good clear, precise approach to clinical examination in a logical manner. Any half decent vet is going to be only too happy to give a running commentary on their exam and findings if you ask them..the best way to learn.
I decided when moving here and retiring to meet the locals..so go to the pub once a week and now know a lot of the farmers. Most of them are very friendly and happy to help with simple stuff.. but equally chatting with them many have a very poor approach to animal welfare with the blunt bottom line taking precedence rather than a charitable balance. That was most highlighted in the bad winter 2-3years ago.. Only a very few farmers were out there trying to find and help their sheep..the majority just left the stock to it and scraped the corpses up when it melted.
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I was fortunate when my first vet 'call out' came about. The young vet that came on the visit made a point of teaching me how to vaccinate and talked me through his examination (including listening for healthy burps on the goats) without me even asking.
As pgkevet says there are good, bad, indifferent in all professions (I come from a nursing background and can agree with that statement from my own experience).
One of my daughters has had her heart set on becoming a Vet since she was 2, even now she says that her idea of a good vet is one that communicates well with the humans as much as treating the animal as it's them that need to continue the care once the vet goes back to the practise
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I do think my vets here are all very good, but they are young. Generally they are hardworking, very motivated, have livestock of their own, and are up on all the latest research and best practices, but also they know that a lot of the farmers here won't react well to a bright young thing giving them an extended lecture on the latest research, and it won't help the animal if the farmer dismisses them entirely, so they choose their battles.
One of them has noticeably shaky hands, and I have heard the farmers comment negatively about his hands shaking due to nervousness and inexperience. Having watched him at work myself including for stuff like a routine cat exam I've observed that his hands shake consistently and I expect it is neurological -- he'll never be a brain surgeon but he can manage GP stuff just fine. So I've spoken up for him to the farmers but it's uphill for him to get their respect.
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My first thought when you said pain around the band was CODD, and that is it contagious, and doesn't heal up very quickly...
Not saying it is, but just sharing what came into my head when I read your post :).
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From what I ve been taught the use of a bs on an abscess that is yet to break through could cause a wall around the abscess wwhich would cause even more pain due to the fact that it can't track out. In my experience when I ve had ponies that have succumb to "gravel", only two occasions, but they're lameness was intermittent, farrier brought in and abscess pared.
On another occasion when n do our cob was being produced the vet jabbed her didn't pare and the poor mare was beside herself and her producer, until new vet went in again and did the job proper.
I know different species but if it is gravel, flint, it will travel
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Get the vet out doll, whilst your waiting soak his foot and have another look x
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My first thought when you said pain around the band was CODD, and that is it contagious, and doesn't heal up very quickly...
Not saying it is, but just sharing what came into my head when I read your post :).
Hmm, after a quick google of CODD... if it were that, and I understand you're not saying it is, my question would be how he could have been exposed to it. The only sheep that's been brought in to my flock or my mentor's flock in the past year has been the one I bought as a tup lamb in October, and he was quarantined, has had no lameness, and I know his breeder well enough to think I would know if she'd had that in her flock before or since. The pasture my boys are on now was grazed by another farmer's cattle followed by sheep last year but has been empty since the start of winter -- don't know whether CODD can linger in the ground? And of course there's been the occasional neighbour lamb escaped into mine...
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Yeah, like I said it was just a thought that popped into my head. I've never had it but had a friend who did and I recall she said it took ages to clear up and the vet didn't spot it so it wasn't getting the correct treatment for a while until they realised what it was. Seems there is a link to cattle: http://hccmpw.org.uk/index.php/tools/required/files/download?fID=3908 (http://hccmpw.org.uk/index.php/tools/required/files/download?fID=3908)
Fingers crossed your vet will sort it whatever it is :).
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I shall report back within a few hours!
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Okay, proper diagnosis: he has a small hole at the bottom outside of his hoof which probably had a thorn in it at one time, and a small swelling at the coronet directly above that. The vet did a little bit of paring around the hole but thinks that most likely any remaining abscess is up at the coronet swelling. He said it looks to him like it may have already drained, perhaps partially, with some remaining at the top which may either open and drain or just be resolved internally. He didn't think it was a good idea for him to lance it, but I should monitor it over the next days and blue spray it if it does open. He says the ram appears to be on the mend but gave him a shot of Metacam and a shot of Tilmicosin to be sure. I asked about penning and the vet's opinion after seeing him in the pasture was that he is fine where he is and if penned would be more likely to hurt himself trying to get out. He predicts the ram should be fine within a week but if I have concerns after that I should let him know.
I'm glad to have had the vet out, I would not have spotted the hole or the swelling as both were pretty subtle, and now I'll be much better able to spot anything similar in future. And of course it could have been something worse, we discussed CODD and were relieved to rule it out. And the vet says his feet are otherwise very good ("nice white lines") which is certainly good to hear :relief:
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Yay :D
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..so next time any sheep limps you'll be rolling it over, washing it's foot and getting the hand lens out...of course that time it'll be something different :) ...
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..so next time any sheep limps you'll be rolling it over, washing it's foot and getting the hand lens out...of course that time it'll be something different :) ...
no doubt!
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good news Thyme. Im glad your mind is not at rest. Lets hope Mr Ram is on the mend