The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: Loobylou on July 31, 2015, 08:45:55 pm
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Had the vet round the other day taking blood samples. Got my bill in, they are charging £140.00 per hour, does anyone think that this is excessive? What are they charging where you are?
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Depends wear you are, but up here in Aberdeenshire id say its on the cheap side, I charge more as a farrier if I'm on the clock !
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Really! How much is a farrier nowadays then? I remember as a child we were around £50 to shoe a horse
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Vets have considerable overheads, especially those that do farm work. Not only do they have the practice with the relevant staff but the cost of drugs, equipment and running vehicles to get to farms.
Our practice would probably be a similar price for clinical time, considerably more for surgery as there's extra costs in anaesthesia , theatre and nursing.
if the consultation fee is £24 for ten minutes, then £144 an hour is about what our time costs.
You are also paying for years of training and expertese. How much does a plumber charge? You'd be lucky if it's less than £140 an hour but their overheads are considerably less and their training much shorter.
The problem in this country is that no one understands the cost of medical professionals as we have the nhs.
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I'm very grateful my vet doesn't charge as much as that. And just got a fresh dose of perspective as I have to take some documents to the notary, who charges £200/hour :'(
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£140 per hour for a plumber, wow that's pricey. Don't think ice ever paid that much.
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We pay a call out and examination fee, then treatment and/or drugs. The call out and examination fee is less than a £100 combined but without checking a bill I'm not sure of the exact amount. We always get an itemised bill so can see what costs what. I appreciate all the issues of overheads and equipment etc. Long training. Years of expertise however comes with years of experience.
Not had a plumber but wouldn't expect to pay £140 an hour. The most expensive garage here isn't that or the local builders.
Twenty odd years ago we paid less than £20 for a set of shoes. I am lucky I only pay £50 now but I know most farriers are more however I know no-one at £140 except many charge much more to do a heavy horse than their general rate.
Twenty years ago our farrier shod many more horses a day than the farriers around now and ran round in a battered old car but his clogs were always clean and well corked!
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We are £140 per hour for a vet farm visit in her battered old car and not much overheads to get her here!
£140 an hour for a plumber!
Are you having a laugh?
Well I never have known a plumber to charge this much and I know over a dozen and they all are under £45 per hour!
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Sometimes the price will vary according to how quick the bill is usually paid...
Also where you buy your drugs etc
if your well organised its obviously cheaper eg 1 farm i may bleed 75 in under 30 minutes, on another only manage 2!
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My vet came out and delivered a dead kid, managing to save the mother. He left when he was sure I knew what to do for her and insisted that I call him if I was concerned. The bill (which I have just remembered I need to pay) was £85.84: £31.22 for the farm visit, £38.69 for the delivery and the rest for meds.
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Pay peanuts ya know what your gonna get
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That's a sweeping generalisation Verdifish, and just because a monkey triples his hourly rate, that doesn't make him any better at delivering goats.
The key thing is was the monkey both qualified and knowledgeable, and did they give my animal a good standard of care. If those are true, I don't care if he was also scratching his @rse and eating bananas ;) .
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Well a solicitor is £300ph so in comparison its well acceptable. Considering the wages they pay, running a practice, vehicles, the debts they have to carry etc. I know it sounds a lot but anyone who runs a business knows if you divide the day running costs into hourly rate its going to be high. I also think people confuse rates with personal income its not its the practice you are paying.
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I called the vet out when one of my weaners had a rectal prolapse. The bill came to £67.41.
£34.07 for the visit, £25.55 for the procedure and 5 different drugs. I guess I should think myself lucky.
Certainly plumbers don't charge £140 round here.
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If as smallholders we calculated our overheads and time realistically we wouldn't do it. If we were realistic we would accept that a bill for £67.41 for a rectal hernia means that weaner is already probably not viable in terms of profit but that's not why we do it. We have to accept however that others are more realistic and if we need their services it will cost.
On face value I would say the £140 for two blood tests seems excessive but £67.41 for the pig treatment seems good value.
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Its funny the amount of variation in vets fees, and its also quite amusing how some people see value in things.
My vet will call out for 20 odd quid, if its in hours, and have a quick look for me, he will even stop by on a 'passing visit' just to drop off some meds etc. Most of the routine work I can do myself, and then just drop the samples etc into the vets, or go pick up meds and administer them myself.
Ive never had a vet out to lamb a sheep (touch wood), but if it was going to cost something like £140 an hour, and may take a couple of hours, then I have to admit, the sheep would probably be shot instead. It may sound cruel, but in a commercial world, its just not viable.
It always amuses me when someone justifies one excessive thing, by comparing it against another excessive thing. I.E well my rip off plummer charges 140 an hour, so its ok for my vet to rip me off to! Or when people equate high prices with high standards.
I take my running dogs to the best running dog vet in the country, and it costs less to see him or get work done, than many of the run of the mill small animal practices around!
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Vets can be very expensive however its like anything else the owner of the practice usually benefits from the profits and the vets working for them are not on a very good income. Fortunately I have excellent vets all very encouraging and helpful. Its the price per minute that is disturbing and then drugs etc on top.
Good farriers are very hard to come by, again I am very lucky to have an excellent one.
As for plumbers if thats what you have paid well the plumber will be laughing all the way to the bank. In my field of work I deal with tradesmen daily and have never ever paid a rate like that.
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You have a good working relationship with your vet PL and you are capable of doing much yourself. I don't find myself needing the vet that often and I can't say I have ever had a bill I have thought was expensive for the work done. Your point about being realistic as to whether you get a vet at all is a good one and that is individual choice. Everyone is different and what some see as reasonable others don't. The choice is theirs.
Our vet has at least a 30 minute drive to get here. That's an hour to and from before he has done anything. Farm visits are time consuming compared to visiting animals.
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I have been with the same vets for years. they can be expensive for some things but when I need them they are here morning ,noon and night. Would not be without them.
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My vets are £90/hr, plus VAT, so £108. But coming to the farm, there would be callout onto of that. I only know the exact hourly price because we recently went to the vets for a review of our flock health plan and it was priced per hour. I think when on farm, they charge in 15 minute units. I, like anyone else, like a good whinge when the vet bill comes, but I wouldn'y change them.
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I would and have changed our equine vets purely because of charging. Not just the rates they charged but the way they immediately ordered test after test. In my former geog area the equine vets ended up with a monopoly of the work and by god didn't we all see our bills hike up? I know of owners who flatly refused certain tests but the vets went ahead and did them anyway, of billing more than once for the same treatment and I myself had to stop the young vet coming to unnecessarily "check" my horse 4 times a week....only to be told by the red-faced newbie that he had been told he had to generate a certain amount of money a month. I was bloody furious and I refused to pay the bill.
I entirely agree that vets take years to qualify, have big overheads and they are very skilled. but Im afraid that a lot of vet practices are also being run as businesses first and animal care centres second.... Im uncomfortable with that but maybe we all need to just get used to it. After all, theres no animal NHS.
re farriers: we pay £60 for a new full set of shoes , £40 for a half set and £20 for trimming only. I hate changing farriers but we had to when we moved here last October and I cannot fault our brilliant young farrier. he's always on time, he's quick and he's a horse-lover ( a lot of farriers aren't!). I love him and Id pay him more if he asked for it
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Ive never had a vet out to lamb a sheep (touch wood), but if it was going to cost something like £140 an hour, and may take a couple of hours, then I have to admit, the sheep would probably be shot instead. It may sound cruel, but in a commercial world, its just not viable.
I often think how lucky we are that we can make those decisions on a flock rather than individual basis - it's expensive to have one caesarean yes, probably more than we'll get for the ewe, but we don't calculate it that way. If after a lambing season we feel we've had more vet fees than we can sustain, then we look at what and why, and what changes we need to make to reduce the necessity for the vet next time. For instance, one year we had the vet for several lambings and we had two caesareans - when we analysed it, it was mostly one tup on one type of ewe, so we never put that tup to that type of ewe again.
We don't hesitate to call the vet if there's a lambing we can't manage ourselves. At lambing time in our area, the vet is always out and about, so the callout charges are moderate. If the ewe can take the journey we can save the callout fee taking her to the surgery - sometimes the vet asks us to do that as it'll be quicker.
If it's a real muddle in there and we can't fathom it - and/or are taking too long and stressing the ewe trying - we'd sooner get the vet and have her delivered quickly, more likely to have live lambs and be able to rear them, or if they're dead and we can't get them out, have them removed more quickly and the ewe on the road to recovery.
The vet can administer an epidural, which we can't - so it can be a very quick job if we call the vet, and therefore a much higher probability of a successful outcome.
Our vet is not cheap by the hour, no, but they are vastly experienced and generally get whatever job done in short order. Wouldn't be without them - and wouldn't want them to reinvest less in the practise, their equipment and staff.
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We were with our vets for nearly thirty years and couldn't fault them either for animal care or costs. Then the old vets retired and the young thruster took over. After a couple of mishaps with blood test results going missing we were a bit dubious (we were still charged!) the crunch came when I had a very poorly dog. I took her in, shaking and trembling (both of us) and the vet, without taking his eyes off the computer said "Put him on the table" It was a bitch!! Then started to examine her without even a "Hello, good dog" I might have been taking a hoover for repair.
We then found a practise of young vets who are wonderful. If a procedure is going to be costly we are always offered, discreetly, the option of paying bit by bit which I have never taken though you never know if this may be the only way.
The animals are always greeted by name and made a bit of a fuss of and you can tell that profit, though necessary is not the driving force.
I don't know if I can mention the practise on this site, if not delete it. Milestone Vets, Kingsteignton, Devon.
At present they only do small animals but I am trying to persuade them to branch out!
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I had the vet come and take bloods from 1 ewe recently and it was £80
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That's pricey, 1 ewe, how long did it take?
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Thats like saying is £5000 too much for a car. What is the car? What bloods were taken and what were they tested for?
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What you pay for is the fact that they can do it and you can't! Thank God for them.
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Cant take a blood sample from a sheep??? Really???
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Like most things, its not the taking of the sample its knowing what sample to take and how to interpret the results
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That is very true. . . but it's like a lot of things, if you are around sheep enough and pay attention to other peoples knowledge etc and aren't afraid to ask for help and ask questions, then you can learn a lot.
I.E After a while your vets will trust your judgement on something without seeing the animal and will just give you what drugs you dean you need, avoiding a call out fee / consultation fee.
I very much respect vets, but find that a lot of the physical work can be done 'in house'.
But i'm also happy to admit when I'm out of my depth and its a 'vet job'.
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good vets are worth their weight in gold. and while we can moan we cannot and would not change them for anything..
I quote this from one of those change your life thingys,..... ""The money you are paid by the company you work for, will always be in direct ratio to the need for what you do, your ability to do it and the degree of difficulty involved in replacing you""
I on the other hand am instantly replaceable in my job and that's why I average about £4.30 an hour and have no job security from day to day...
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I know that there is joke forum but thought that this might 'lighten the mood a bit'
Glenn took his dog to the vets, and laid its limp body on the table. The vet pulled out his stethoscope, listened to the dog’s chest for a moment, then shook his head sadly. “I’m sorry, but your dog has died.”
“What?” Glenn screamed. “You haven’t even done any tests! I want another opinion.”
The vet left the room and returned in a few moments with a Labrador Retriever. The Retriever sniffed the dog on the table carefully from head to toe. Finally, the Retriever shook it’s head and barked once (meaning “dead and gone”). The vet took the Labrador away and returned a few minutes later with a cat, which also sniffed carefully over the dog on the table before shaking its head and saying, “Meow” (meaning “he’s gone”).
After the cat jumped off the table, the vet handed Glenn a bill for £500. The man shook the bill at the vet. “£500!!!! Just to tell me my dog is dead?!!! That’s outrageous!”
The vet explained. “If you had taken my word for it, the charge would have been £20, but with the Lab work and the cat scan…."
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my large animal vet in Essex is £80 an hour.... or was when I last used her last year. She used to have a converted stable but now she has 4 colleagues and nice offices.... I suspect the rates have gone up!
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There is a thread of thefarmingforum about the costs for agricultural engineers, which go up a£109 and hour, for the bigger firms, then they sell tractors as well.
The vets of my youth charged a flat rate, plus treatment and would only charge you extra it went over an hour. Vets now have to follow so many regulations, biohazard waste, H&S, staff training etc. There is a level of complexity that the old vets never needed to deal with.
There is nothing to stop anyone from shopping round for planned treatment, I do. I think most of use would pay extra for someone who is reliable and provides emergency cover. I use two vets, one for small animals and one for the livestock as its hard for a small practice to have enough staff to do both.