The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: mojocafa on July 27, 2015, 07:53:19 am
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Like myself..... :thinking:
...... My 12 year old german Shepard is getting very stiff in the morning,
What do you give your stiffies?
Cod liver oil?
Salmon oil?
Something prescribed from vet?
Or a wee gentle rub!
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My oldie has now gone but he had
evening primrose oil
sardines in oil
eventually metacam, which helped a lot but seemed to lead to loss of continence
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You can get collars with magnets in that seem to help
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My old boy, a GSD x, became rather stiff in his latter years. The vet diagnosed arthritis and prescribed two things. Glucosamine daily - she told me to buy the human stuff, as the vet-authorised version was very pricey - and Rimadyl to use when I knew he had a big day coming up, for a day or two before, the day itself and a day or two after, and any other time if he seemed particularly sore.
And gentle, regular exercise; several short gentle walks a day, not the big all-day hikes. And keep the amount of running and jumping to a minimum; walking and trotting better than flat out. Definitely make sure he's had 10-15 minutes warming up before doing anything more strenuous.
We still did the big all-day hikes for a good few more years, but I bracketed them with Rimadyl, and I helped him over stiles. And he accompanied me on my thrice-weekly 3-mile jogs for a few more years also, but towards the end they were too much for him.
I also started to give him a hot water bottle on cold nights, and a second duvet to cover him (he slept on a folded duvet.) And made sure he got dried off and warmed up quickly after getting wet.
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Or for a radical answer you could go find a vet able to fully evaluate the dog instead of leaping to statistical assumptions.
For the GSD indeed the most common problems will be degnerative joint issues BUT a very late onset CDRM is not impssible, elements of HD, specific joints affected or (perhaps most likely) discospondylopathies. Even then important considerations of oxygeneation and cardiac output matter hugely for cognitive function as do any toxic elements of deteriorating kidney or liver function or imbalances in electrolytes (since the central nervous system conduction depends on that). Very important also is weight control, sense of balance and eyesight as well as checking for the rarities such as prostate enlargements and inflammations affecting the low spine or other masses.
It's why some of us spent years at college and decades in practice. I have seen a 19yr old GSD so age to me is just a number.
Most of the evidence for neutraceuticals has been debunked.. at least they're generally harmless and sticking a few ounces of magnets around the dog will just make it weight more...
The arthritic process is both an inflammatory reaction and an attempt to stabilise sloppy joints and a reaction to chroinc trauma from being pulled by tendons and ligmanents. It's often self stabilising in younger patients and settles after some months..commonly medications can be reduced or removed.. hence the apparent improvments from neglect or whatever 'alternative' therapy a witch doctor comes up with.
I went to a lecture on human arthritis back in the mid 80's and the wise speaker pointed out that at that time after a hundred years of records the best answer he had was to keep the joints gently moving without weight loading ..so lying on your back in a tropical swimming pool, gently moving about (and for people popping regular aspirin) kept the joints functional for longest. But that doesn't fit with a dog's lifestyle.
Or you can just pop down the pub for believable opinion.
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Whilst at the Scottish game Fair, I came across a product called Joint Aid for Dogs. They certainly believed in their product and said I would see results in 10 days. Noting how dubious I was they gave me a months free sample.
Floyd is 9 years old Border Collie and after 3 weeks there is a noticable difference in the way he is sprinting, and also not so creeky after a sleep.
www.gwfnutrition.com/#!joint-aid-dogs/ci8g (http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/www.gwfnutrition.com/#!joint-aid-dogs/ci8g)
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Yumove
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I am not a vet, and obviously the vets will know best, but I have been hearing really good results for stiff dogs being fed curcumin (turmeric powder) with piperine (ground black pepper) and lipids (coconut oil). The latter ingredients to increase the bioavailability of the curcumin.
There are some interesting studies on t' web. Obviously more studies would be needed, but I know a few people who have had good results.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3535097/ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3535097/)
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I have a 15 year old bearded collie with arthritis. He gets onsior daily along with nutraquin plus. Also has tramadol at night if needed but that's not often. He was on Trocoxil for a couple of years but that was a monthly tablet and I felt he needed a daily med. He potters around, is as bright as a button mentally. He also has a back on track coat he wears at night.
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I've never seen any improvement with glucosamine, and turmeric just stains your kitchen and hands bright yellow!
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I'd trust my vet every time
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Here's a story my dog got injured in his leg I took him to the vet and the vet said it may never heal,but to keep his exercise to a minimum. I followed all the vets instructions and I put turmeric in his food with olive oil and he healed within 6 months or less. He was walking absolutely fine, he wasn't on any meds at all and it healed perfectly and he was 9! Since then I give them turmeric and olive oil and they're not very stiff at all, so it must work mustn't it? ;) However just to make sure it is arthritis, and not something else, do consult your vet. By the way how old is your dog?
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I've never seen any improvement with glucosamine
I think I did (with me), but it also made me really depressed. Then again, I'm not a dog.
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If you really an to get into this stuff then read up on cytokines and the scavenging of free radicals. Frankly I can't get my head around all the currently known cytokines and sadly tere's a lot of mumbo-jumbo about every snake oil that can affect them. Some do have genuine free radical scavenging effects (cucumarin is one) and soem have evidencve from known metabolic pathways that they might have a biasing effect on the mix of inflammatory and antiinflammatory pathways.
But I'll reiterate that many of these patients will stabalise over time (not cure) and no longer need the same level of meds..sometimes just because they've adjusted their lifestyle and got 'used' to it. Of curse anything shoved down them during that period gets the credit. At least with dogs there's rarely a placebo effect.. BUT (again) there is a known placebo affect on the owners observation of their dog's response.
The frist place i ever worked routinely used gold injections as a treatment for lameness. It is stil used for specific subtypes of rheumatoid arthritis in people but this practic used it on every lame dog and claimed excellent resuts. It was a 13 week course of weekly injections. reality is that indiscriminately used on everything from a wrench and strain to a real problem and you're bound to get 90%+ response.
A gentle reminder re other factors that affect abulation and balance ..and add to my previous list such things as diabetic or hyothyroid neuropathies whic can be subtle.
I actually had to take my own dog into the vets today (sigh, sometimes regret having sold my place and retired). he wasn;t settling from his lameness problems and it was time to examine him under G/A and get soem rads done... and he turned out not to have what I'd thought it was going to be. Naturally I played the vet to vet professional card and got to palpate him under g/a and see the rads as they came off the computer. It doesn't look like his favourite game of chasing the quadbike will ever be as much fun.
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I've never seen any improvement with glucosamine
I'd never have tried it except the vet prescribed it. She said it would take 6 weeks to have any effect, but Horace did seem to be much improved much more quickly than that, and I think I had pretty much been regulating his exercise as she directed before that in any case, as he wasn't my first aging, stiffening dog.
So when I started to exhibit similar symptoms myself some years ago (and the doctors don't seem to investigate anywhere near as carefully as the vets do ::) - or perhaps with overweight dogs the vet's opening gambit is also, "Get some weight off and come back if it's still a problem" :-\). I asked the doc about glucosamine and he said yes, it does help some people, but take a big dose, 1500mg/day. So I started on it myself. I've never been sure if it helps but didn't dare stop in case it was... Same with evening primrose oil... Vitamins... Starting to rattle, I decided to stop the lot and see what happened. Got more stiff, is what happened, and needing a good course of NSAIDs to get me to loosen up again. ::)
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I tried glucosamine for two years when I first had osteo-arthritis with no effects. My gp just said it seems to work for some and not others. When I was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis, my son bought me codliver oil capsules and told me to make sure I did. There was two years' supply there and that made no difference, nor did the turmeric tablets I tried. My GSD x Lab, aged 13, is having problems now. Glucosamine didn't work for her either and my vet prescribed Carprodyl which does help and she can run around quite well. Our 12 year old Lab is also on them for OA but a higher dose. The vet said one of his hip joints is crumbling so he's not allowed to go for walks now, although he seems much better on the meds.
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My old bitch is running on metacam. She finds squatting painful so does not toilet fully then has to go again. There is also the random yelping especially if something touches her lower front leg or she rolls over in her sleep. She is no longer taken for walks but still plays with the other dog in the yard but will take herself off to her memory foam bed in the kitchen for long periods during the day. She is still enjoying life but I can see that time coming closer daily.
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:-[ dogs getting old is rubbish. Why don't they last longer? >:(
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I had an springer spaniel on who the metacam had lost its effect. Local vets had a vet who specialised in acupuncture took her in every 6weeks. She wandered around the consulting room with about 8 needles in her for 10 mins. Results were fantastic. Kept her happy for 18 months.
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:-[ dogs getting old is rubbish. Why don't they last longer? >:(
Because dogs, like all creatures, don't live as long as humans. That was the way we were designed, we live we die and there is nothing we can do about that. Apparently scientists have discovered that if brain transplants were possible in human beings we would only live an extra few years in the other body. In our brain there are cells which die and rejuvenate, but there are also cells in our brain which die and don't rejuvenate, these cells have been like this since we were born. Our brain stops maturing once we reach the age of 20 after that everything starts to die off. I could go on like this for hrs so I'll stop now before I annoy anyone ::)
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Because dogs, like all creatures, don't live as long as humans.
Hmm...all creatures? Does that include the record 226 yr old carp. Edible clam recorded at over 500yrs? Galapagos tortoise, Lake sturgeon and others... just saying :)
Human longevity will be increased..whether that's a good thing is another matter with our silly numbers.. doubtless some really powerful toss-pots will get first place in the queue for treatment. Manipulating telomeres will be one major step in that direction
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I'm not sure a 500 year old clam would be all that edible
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Cheers everyone , :thumbsup:, think we will go to vets
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Like myself..... :thinking:
...... My 12 year old german Shepard is getting very stiff in the morning,
What do you give your stiffies?
Cod liver oil?
Salmon oil?
Something prescribed from vet?
Or a wee gentle rub!
Yumove tablets (my dog hates them although they are supposed to be palatable so I have to give them like pills) and thermal beds like a flectabed. He's not on metacam or anything quite yet. Regular, on lead exercise as well (he's an 11yo setter).
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Our brain stops maturing once we reach the age of 20
I live with a 67 yr old man and a 21 yr old man and I can guarantee that male brains stop developing a LOOOONG time before the age of 20 :innocent:
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Our brain stops maturing once we reach the age of 20
I live with a 67 yr old man and a 21 yr old man and I can guarantee that male brains stop developing a LOOOONG time before the age of 20 :innocent:
They don't get the blood supply until much later in life, really, do they? :innocent: :eyelashes:
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Our brain stops maturing once we reach the age of 20 [/quote
I live with a 67 yr old man and a 21 yr old man and I can guarantee that male brains stop developing a LOOOONG time before the age of 20 :innocent:
:roflanim: :roflanim: :roflanim:
Actually my bro is two years older than me and his brain is mature, I really respect him and he gives excellent advice and words of wisdom :)