The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: DullBookworm on July 18, 2015, 03:01:57 pm
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Sheep help!!!
Hello. Wife and i have the starting of a smal holding in New Cumnock. We have had chickens and geese and ducks etc but never ventured into 4 legged animals yet.
We have 2.5 Acres of well fenced in good grazing field and we are going to start keeping sheep. We have been offered some Scottish black faced at £50/lamb and not sure if this is good price.
With limited funds to start up with: we're not sure if we just go with the cheapest of the cheap or do we stick with recognized breeds and build slowly on quality rather than quantity?.
Can anyone direct us in the right course of reading materials?
All help appreciated
Stephen and Lorraine :wave:
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You'll need a County Parish Holding number from DEFRA before you keep livestock, and to find a local farm animal vet. What do you want to do with the lambs? If take them on to slaughter weight you should be OK but thnk about water supply, especially in Winter, hurdles to make a pen, transportation to the abattoir - plenty of threads on here about the kit you'll need to keep them healthy.
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thanks for the reply. HAve the CPH and had a visit from council and DEFRA here as we had adopted goats here for a short time as a favour to someone. Transportation is good too and the local vet is used to sheep as we are in the midst of the countryside. Love how you have highlighted the basics and made us feel good about what we do have so far LOL. Breeds wise: we are unsure as well :-S
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Sheep help!!!
Hello. Wife and i have the starting of a smal holding in New Cumnock. We have had chickens and geese and ducks etc but never ventured into 4 legged animals yet.
We have 2.5 Acres of well fenced in good grazing field and we are going to start keeping sheep. We have been offered some Scottish black faced at £50/lamb and not sure if this is good price.
With limited funds to start up with: we're not sure if we just go with the cheapest of the cheap or do we stick with recognized breeds and build slowly on quality rather than quantity?.
Can anyone direct us in the right course of reading materials?
All help appreciated
Stephen and Lorraine :wave:
That is quite cheap for a lamb, lambs ideally go for about 60-80 £ each depending on the market.
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I wish lambs were fetching £60/80 this time of year !
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My advice being a beginner myself is definitely start small, I lambed just to ewes this year and boy was it hard work!! So much to learn when things don't go to plan and even just 2 ewes at lambing time can feel like a full time job for 3 months.
Not a negative as I'm looking forward to next year but I was pleased I only had 2 this year.
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£50 a blackface lamb is not cheap, its what I would expect to pay for a maternal bred lamb really, actually I would pay less for a blackie lamb right now
Good terminal sired fat lambs at market are making £60 at the moment!
maternal bred lambs would make far less than this at market right now, may make £50 as stores later on
Look at what all your neighbors have and look what works in your area, would give you a clue as to what to get :thumbsup:
For a smallholding I wouldnt generally recommend blackies, they are thrifty hill sheep that produce mainly one lamb and aren't generally kept on smallholdings.
If it was just 2.5 acres then perhaps something that you could make the most from, so something that you could stock higher and rotate in small areas (strip graze?) rather than a large ewe, so you could get more kgs of lamb per acreper acre
Or get a larger more commercial ewe and have fat lambs away earlier on in the year (lamb in march, away in June off grass) and then just dry ewes to live off nothing rest of the year
I have welsh mules which are very very easy to handle, nice and friendly, stay behind one strand of electric, they lambed in march/april and first batch of lambs were 40-45 kgs in June off entirely grass
They also arent too expensive to buy in and have a high cull value
Shedding sheep are ok, my ones (exlanas) have been bred for no foot issues and no lambing issues etc, very very easy care, however I rent my land and they do cover (smother) all the fences in wool, which landlords tend not to enjoy so much.......
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what is a lamb? How old? Meat or breeding? How reared and how tame. All will have an affect on price. Personally I would pay more and get 3 or 4 older ewes who are bucket trained and friendly ......... mind you the last time I gave this advice my buyers vanished!!
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I appreciate the sentiment. we had hand reared goats here for a few months. They were a dream to have about
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Lots of great advice people. Muchly appreciated x
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"That is quite cheap for a lamb, lambs ideally go for about 60-80 £ each depending on the market"
Depends on the lambs if they are little scrappy things they could be worth £30 really all depends on the beast - the top priced spring lambs finished for the prime market are only making just over £80 average price this week for prime lamb in scotland is about £1.60 a kilo so a 37.5 kilo lamb is £60
If you are not sure what breed you fancy there is a Shetland / Hebridean and rare breed/ other breed sale at Lanark Auction Mart on saturday 29th August - worth a look if you want to see if theres any breeds out there that suit you. " 2.5 acres might seem a lot with this summers grass explosion however don't over stock or it will be an expensive winter
you don't say what you are thinking of doing with them - i guess if your keeping them for breeding you want the right breed - if you are just finishing some lambs then it perhaps doesn't matter quite as much
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I wouldn't be paying more than £30 for blackie lambs at this time of year. Also if you want to breed you'd be better starting with gimmers so you can tup them this year. Lots of breeds & crosses out there that would suit your venture better than hill sheep.
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I wouldn't keep Blackies on a smallholding - their preferred grazing is measured in acres per sheep not sheep per acre.
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And if they're like my Badger Face Welsh Mountains they don't much care whose acres they are!
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I wish lambs were fetching £60/80 this time of year !
Absolutely!
Prices are down £20-£30 a head on last year, almost entirely due to the strength of the pound against the euro; prices in euros are much the same.
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I wish lambs were fetching £60/80 this time of year !
Absolutely!
Prices are down £20-£30 a head on last year, almost entirely due to the strength of the pound against the euro; prices in euros are much the same.
I heard today on my local radio that someone sold 46 kilo lambs for £82 per head and 36 kilo for £75 per head.
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Scottish Blackface store lambs (destined for slaughter) shouldn't be so expensive; good breeding stock, if that's what you want, would be at least that, yes.
I wouldn't keep Blackies on a smallholding - their preferred grazing is measured in acres per sheep not sheep per acre.
Well said.
The only reason I might say yes, go for these, is if they are from your nearest neighbour and you will want his/her help and advice ;). With 2.5 acres you would only be buying a very few, and the few quid overprice could come back in help and support many times over ;).
Otherwise, spend a bit of time looking at breeds of sheep, and researching what would suit your spot and what you like. Personally, I would start with store lambs, to get used to handling sheep before taking on the added stress of tupping, gestation and lambing. (It's a joy, of course, but the responsibility can be daunting, especially if you are inexperienced.)
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The only reason I might say yes, go for these, is if they are from your nearest neighbour and you will want his/her help and advice ;). With 2.5 acres you would only be buying a very few, and the few quid overprice could come back in help and support many times over ;).
Having said which, you also don't want your new neighbour to think you are completely wet behind the ears ;).
Dumfries Mart primestock report (http://www.cdfarmersmart.co.uk/dumfries/reports/primestock/index.html) this week had ppk average 153.4. That's £61.36 for a 40kg lamb, and that's the average - good Texels will have been generally higher than the average price, Blackie types would have been quite a bit less. (Not that there are likely to be any finished Blackies selling fat just yet.) Top price for any lamb was £72.
(Same week last year, average ppk was 185, that's £74 for a 40kg lamb. Top priced lamb was £87.)
Store sales haven't started this far north yet. At the opening store sale last year (http://www.cdfarmersmart.co.uk/dumfries/reports/sheep/2014/0822.html), Blackies were £45 per head. In subsequent weeks, the top prices for Blackie stores were £52 and £50.
So £40 is probably plenty this year ;)
If it were me, and they are from your neighbour, and you do want him/her on side, I'd say something along the lines of,
I've checked the mart reports. £50 seems fair on last year's prices, but prices are down by around 20% this year all round. However, it's just a few, they seem like excellent sheep, and I would prefer to buy from my neighbour, of course. ;D. They'll be wormed and dipped for scab, ticks and flies, I assume? And would you be able to bring them across for me?
I think you'll find your neighbour gives them all relevant treatments before bringing them across - which will save you a few pounds, and any immediate worry about any problems they may have ;) You might even get a few coins 'for luck'. (Or you may be told they're treated and delivered 'for luck'.)
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I wish lambs were fetching £60/80 this time of year !
Absolutely!
Prices are down £20-£30 a head on last year, almost entirely due to the strength of the pound against the euro; prices in euros are much the same.
I heard today on my local radio that someone sold 46 kilo lambs for £82 per head and 36 kilo for £75 per head.
Just because one person gets a good price (which for this year, those are) for one lamb or a few lambs does not mean that every lamb fetches those prices. Most won't.
You'll see from my posts above that the average in the OP's local area is just a smidge over £60 for a 40kg lamb at the moment - and Blackies would fetch less than that average, as they don't have the conformation of the better breeds.
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:wave: Hi - I'm in Ayrshire - have pm'd you
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"That is quite cheap for a lamb, lambs ideally go for about 60-80 £ each depending on the market"
Depends on the lambs if they are little scrappy things they could be worth £30 really all depends on the beast - the top priced spring lambs finished for the prime market are only making just over £80 average price this week for prime lamb in scotland is about £1.60 a kilo so a 37.5 kilo lamb is £60
Yikes, would be very very lucky to make £80 average around here right now, good solid 40kgs lambs are making £60 :gloomy: pity I have another load ready to go but I cant keep them any longer as they are getting too big
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Scottish Blackface store lambs (destined for slaughter) shouldn't be so expensive; good breeding stock, if that's what you want, would be at least that, yes.
I wouldn't keep Blackies on a smallholding - their preferred grazing is measured in acres per sheep not sheep per acre.
Well said.
The only reason I might say yes, go for these, is if they are from your nearest neighbour and you will want his/her help and advice ;). With 2.5 acres you would only be buying a very few, and the few quid overprice could come back in help and support many times over ;).
Otherwise, spend a bit of time looking at breeds of sheep, and researching what would suit your spot and what you like. Personally, I would start with store lambs, to get used to handling sheep before taking on the added stress of tupping, gestation and lambing. (It's a joy, of course, but the responsibility can be daunting, especially if you are inexperienced.)
Very true :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Keepers just my bad grammar
top price is £80
Average is 1.60 per kilo
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Keepers just my bad grammar
top price is £80
Average is 1.60 per kilo
Ahh I see, was almost ready to ship the next lot to wherever that market was :gloomy:
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I am not sure if I would want to breed sheep (plural) on 2.5 acres (how to keep the tup away from the ewes etc etc))... That's not much land - maybe just fatten up some lambs over summer, or if you prefer your meat a bit more mature, get some traditional (smaller, thriftier) breed in and run on until 18 months old, then get in next batch. Cheaper, less hassle and good meat at the end...
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It can be done though surely, especially if you went for the tup lamb and then eat him ('coming and going' :innocent: ) style of man-management? ;D
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But, Womble, doesn't "coming and going" mean the meat would have Ram taint? I was given very stern warnings about that here a couple of weeks back , even though my ram lambs weren't "coming" but were "going" ;D
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I'll defer to the experts on this one, but if he waits a few months between his coming and going, the meat should be ok surely?
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Gosh, my brain hurts!
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We are told that hormones = taint. A tup or tup lamb that is working has hormones flowing about his system, therefore risk of taint.
What we don't have a definitive answer on is how long after working the taint is gone. Some months, some seem to say.
And I presume the tup would need to be not with ewes in order for the hormones to begin to die down. There's probably a seasonal component too.
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my tup lamb went in with my 2 ewes on the 3rd of November last year and was taken straight to slaughter on the 26th having covered both ewes and no matter taint. :relief: