The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Smallholding => Land Management => Topic started by: Womble on July 10, 2015, 11:36:27 am
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I know we've discussed this before, but the companies recommended in old threads don't seem to be going any more, so.....
I think we need to lime our fields. They had horses on them for 20 years prior to us taking over, and one in particular is very yellow with buttercups. I did a crude pH test myself which came back at 5.5.
My questions therefore are:
1) Where should I send soil samples to, to get a full analysis done?
2) How practical is it to lime the fields myself? The idea of spreading circa ten tonnes of lime by hand isn't exactly appealing. However, We have a Landrover, and this wee spreader (http://www.cheapmowers.com/acatalog/Agri-Fab_45-0315_Towed_85lb_Spreader.html) is under £100 and would take a sack or two at a time. Does anybody have experience of using one of these?
(http://www.cheapmowers.com/acatalog/agrifab_45-0315.jpg)
3) What's the best type of lime to use, and where can I buy it from? I take it granulated lime in sacks, for use with those spreaders?
4) When's the best time of year to treat the land, and how long do animals need to be kept off for?
I'm sure this will apply to loads of us, so I look forward to your replies! :thumbsup:
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Contact Carse Goodlifers on here. He can help with testing.
You can lime at any time of year. Can't remember if you ned to keep stock off. Don't think so.
We needed to spread five tonne here. Lime gets spread in tonnes / acre. Our spreader takes 50kg. Dan would still be doing it. We got a contractor who supplied and spread. Took him about 20 minutes and cost about £200, I think.
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Granulated works differently to other types of lime. Needs to be done annually but less cost per year and you can do it yourself. We used calcifert ... which is a natural source and animals can continue to graze. It works quickly (3 weeks?) but is washed through during second yr. About £160/tonne and application is up to 800Kg/ha ( http://www.calcifert.co.uk/media/2467/calcifert_recommendations_august_2013.pdf (http://www.calcifert.co.uk/media/2467/calcifert_recommendations_august_2013.pdf) )
Other types are done by contactor and last 5ish years but costs a fortune in one go. Much more than 2 tonnes per acre at one go is a waste .......... extra is lost .......... our soil tests showed we would need up to 5/acre but suggested putting half then half late in yr or second yr. ... Also a talk we went to recently proved to us that the cheap end (eg slack lime is not only a waste of money but over time actually increases acidity!)
We also considered the weight of contractors on our wet land and small gateways. ........
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Try http://www.huttonsoils.com/ (http://www.huttonsoils.com/) .
To give you an idea my soil tested at ph 5.3 and the recommendation was for nearly 12 tons/ha (with a max of 4t/ha at a time). Depending on how much land you have that is an awful lot of bags of lime and time to do it by hand or with a wee spreader that only takes a bag or 2 at a time.
For small areas bagged lime will probably be reasonable but when you are talking about tons of the stuff it will get pretty expensive.
I think agricultural lime should cost about £20/ton if you buy it from the quarry. Finding a contractor that is willing to come and spread a small amount might be the hardest part (and add significantly to the cost).
Having said all that I am still to get around to organising lime for my land.
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Aye, we were told a maximum of 2t / acre in any year.
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Contact Carse Goodlifers on here. He can help with testing.
Did someone mention my name? :wave:
........1) Where should I send soil samples to, to get a full analysis done?
I can help you out Womble if you like. We can test for pH, Mg, P & K and we can also do a more in-depth analysis covering the likes of Mn, S, Fe, Se, Zn etc. Drop me a message if you want more info.
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Excellent, I was hoping you might pop up! :)
I'll send you a PM :thumbsup: .
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I have a very similar problem down here in the southwest. Does Carse Goodlifer have a southern cousin by any chance? :eyelashes:
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Hi Womble, I was in a similar position earlier this year. I used the SRUC Analytical services for the soil testing and a company called HR Gray to supply the lime (calcifert), I think they are based in Stirling - my only grumble with them was that you need access to a forklift truck/big fancy tractor with forks to unload the bags at your end. I've just finished spreading 2 600kg bags in between the never ending rain. I foolishly went for the cheaper walk behind and push spreader, there were a lot of bad words left out in the fields so I'd definitely go of the towed version if I could make that decision again! That being said, it did the job...
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Hi Cuddles, Thanks very much for that.
I don't have access to a forklift, so that might be limiting. However, it's good to hear of somewhere local (http://www.hrgrayhaulage.co.uk/services/calcifert/) that supplies Calcifert at least. Our current method for unloading builder's bags is to tie the handles to a tree and then drive off!. It sort of works! ;D
How big an area did you have to treat?
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Ring round suppliers .... we had same problem .... Countrywide couldn't deliver but Wynnstay have a lorry with a crain to unload. Alternative (but pricier) Calcifert is produced in small sacks.
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I sent soil samples to progreen (Google it), they recommended fertiliser and lime. I got the fert and a ton bag of granulated lime from south west lancs farmers. I went there and got them to load it on a trailer for me then used a little spreader as you've mentioned, towed behind a quad and drove the trailer into the field and bucketed the lime into the spreader. It took a while but not as long as I'd thought. It was definitely do able but I only did just over an acre x
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We looked at using calcifert this year, used a simple garden soild test kit in different areas of the field. Other problems cropped up and it didn't get done.
Originaly thought of basic lime but we were told the delivery waggons and machinery needed for spreading it would be more than our lane/fields could cope with.
Must get it done next year, hopefully reduce these buttercups and rushes.
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you can apply calcifert at any time of year and even when animals are grazing
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Hi Cuddles, Thanks very much for that.
I don't have access to a forklift, so that might be limiting. However, it's good to hear of somewhere local (http://www.hrgrayhaulage.co.uk/services/calcifert/) that supplies Calcifert at least. Our current method for unloading builder's bags is to tie the handles to a tree and then drive off!. It sort of works! ;D
How big an area did you have to treat?
I limed somewhere between 6 and 7 acres, there is an application chart on the calcifert web site that helps you work out how much you would need. Loving the tree and a bit of rope idea... I might have to pinch that one.
I didn't have a forklift either but a local yard near by did. I moved them from there to the fields on a small livestock trailer, spread one bag and then went back for the other.
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Hi possum. About that southern cousin . I'm a crop nutritionist by trade with mole valley. Happy to pH test for nothing or sort out more involved testing if necessary. Would be great if you were in Devon but could prob sort something with a colleague if you're further away. Cheers
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Funny isnt it you do any soil testing and they all come back for needing lime. The OH will argue its all a waste of time. We have a few hundred acres and have soil testing done every year, recently had a very expensive test done to all fields - came back low in lime - really? The price of the test proved very little.
Its the bacteria value that needs checking and compost tea that needs spreading all over to bring back the soil to life. Neednt worry about the ph value.
http://gardenrant.com/?guest_post=please-stop-liming-your-soil-based-on-the-ph (http://gardenrant.com/?guest_post=please-stop-liming-your-soil-based-on-the-ph)
http://sustainablefoodtrust.org/articles/roots-health-elaine-ingham-science-soil/ (http://sustainablefoodtrust.org/articles/roots-health-elaine-ingham-science-soil/)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEtl09VZiSU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEtl09VZiSU)
She also blows away the myth of pH, the measure of soil acidity or alkalinity. Since when, she asks, has nature said a pH 6.5 is ideal for crops, when they grow successfully in ranges from 5.5–11? Soil pH varies so widely even along a root hair that an average value is meaningless. It isn’t the soil pH that needs analysing, it’s the soil’s microbial life.
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Devonlad - I have PM'd you. :)
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I use one of those spreaders on the back ok my ride on mower to spread anything from weed feed and moss killer on the lawn to grass track, calcipril or nitrogen on the pasture. Its more time consuming than using the tractor but great for small spaces.
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Folks,
We received our results back from the soil testing. Some news was as expected (we need to lime), but there were some surprises, for example our two main fields are very different in the levels of other minerals present.
If anybody else in Central Scotland / Perthshire is interested in having their soil tested, I highly recommend [member=29534]Carse Goodlifers[/member]. Cheers!
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That's very kind Womble - thankyou :-[
Yeah some interesting results.
I would also add that Angus and South Aberdeenshire is also fine for sampling should anyone be interested.
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Once you get lime in womble get yourself a small sprayer even a backpack sprayer will work but one around 15 gallons is best electrical 12 volts pump type put it on a small atv get a sprayer with a boom on it and use raw milk dumped milk is cheap like in free use 5 - 10 gallon per acre mixed with water best grass booster there is in my opinion give it a Try on a small patch see for yourself James