The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Smallholding => Techniques and skills => Topic started by: Rob_Beginner! on February 28, 2010, 11:07:04 pm
-
Hi All
Just a quickie, I've just bought a small holding in mid-Wales where the access to the property is extremely tight. From the narrow public lane I need to shunt my car to get in! (god knows how I'm going to move our house contents there!).
The gate is flanked by the typical dry stone walls we often see about 5ft tall. Question: would I need planning permission to remove say 4 meters of the wall and replace with a longer gate do you think? This way I can turn without shunting. There's also a tree that would need to be felled (on my land which is not in a conservation area etc) and assume I can remove this also?
Any advice/guidance gratefully received :)
Cheers
Rob
-
Just ask planning. I know of farmers in the news recently that have been hauled over the coals for allsorts of just trivia.One in my old area for putting a kissingate in instead of a style!!! The tree may not be in a conservation area but my old authority needed to know about all trees cut down over a certain circumference or a massive fine was imposed.It is better to be safe than sorry,some one is always watching,especially newcomers.Especially INcomers. Hermit
-
According to our local planners, of whom I do have experiences with ....just because you already have something, it does not follow that you can alter than something without permission. Just thinking, if its a tight turn as you say, why has the previous owner not widened the gateway ....is it because they were not bothered about it, or they had tried and been refused permission?
Our planners do not like the natural stone wall being altered, or pulled down, and would probably say no. There is also the problem of who owns the "extra" land you will be driving over, once you take the wall down? Is it yours or the public highway? Daft as it may sound, and I have been through this when trying to alter an access point, there is the issue of highway safety. They can argue a bigger gateway means larger vehicles reversing in and out etc.
Obviously, your planners may be fine, and say its a good idea. First off, I would ring the planning department up, and ask if you require planning for what you want to do. Sometimes they will come and visit the site, and tell you there and then, if its ok. If you have to put in for planning for removing the wall and widening the entry point, they will charge a fee, so I would just ask first, and try and save the money!!
If you don't ask and go ahead, then the council find out and say its wrong, they will make you reinstate the wall to how it was. So in my view, its best to ask and see how the land lies.
Good luck with it!
-
Thanks Hermit, Roxy for your feedback it's really appreciated.
I will follow your advice, especially taking Hermit's point about being new to the area I really dont want to upset anybody so will engage the planners to get their input and will see how it goes. I dont think the previous owners bothered about this really. They were very much into self suffeciency etc. I never even seen a car there when we went to view the property a few times prior to purchase. For us we need two cars as both my wife and I work, plus we have a caravan so the need for parking space is significantly different.
I've got quite a few questions line up so any input from you going forward is without doubt highly appreciated.
Cheers
Rob
-
Bring em on Rob and Welcome to TAS...we love questions...oh and good luck with your new smallholding...what are your plans?
Farmer, :farmer:
-
Hi Farmer,
Looking forward to it ;)
We're taking on quite a big job really. Neither of us are knowledgeable with regards to country living, we decided to have a lifestyle change as living in a large town with 3 energetic kids under the age of 5 was not the way forward for so many reasons. Hence moving to a small holding.
Over the next few years we're hoping to learn so much so dont know where to begin in terms of answering the question about what do we plan to do with the land etc.
First thing to do is to decide what tools to buy/hire. For example we need to move an awful lot of soil to allow for parking area, so should I buy a small excavator/dumper truck or hire. I'm sure there'll be many uses for them going forward so not sure at the moment. Then in terms of animals, well start small I guess! Chickens/ducks etc then progress from there. And as for vegetables, having never grown so much as an onion in my life thet'll be interesting!
The ground is quite wet so need to investigate drainage, and given it has private water I need to be sure any change to the water table wouldbn't imact that supply.
So interesting time ahead me thinks ;D
Thanks again all for the warm welcome.
Cheers
Rob
-
Hello Rob Good morning If it was me I would hire for a start A preowned mini digger and a 2 ton 4 wheel drive dumper will sett you back £10k I know if you are successfull you can use it and hopefully sell it on again with no loss but its risky especially if you know little about them.Do consider hiring a firm in to do the main work for you I know you have seen a chap with a JCB push pull load and level rough ground with a little push or pull on a little stick.Let me tell you Rob he if he is a competant opperator knows what he is doing and how hard and long to pull or push .Until you get used to it you can make hell of a mess .Where as the professional comes on site show him what you want done and go do some thing else Take him a cuppa at half ten you will be amazed See what you have done OH dear.Do as you like ask about but only take advice from some one who knows ;D :farmer:
-
Well done for taking this on. I wish I had had the courage to take that step sooner. Country life will be fantastic for your kids too. You will find lots of folk on here with a great deal of expertise. I agree about equipment - if you haven't used big stuff before get someone in - a bit more expensive to start with but pick his brains and learn. Don't re-invent the wheel! Good luck and send us some photos
-
Hi Wizard, Doganjo,
Thanks ever so much for your feedback. Coupled with the above advice re the stone wall I am now clear about the best route forward! ;D
I really appreciate the time you guys have taken to give a complete novice your advice. We're moving there in approx' 4 weeks so right now I'm trying to do my day job in IT but my mind is definately elsewhere ;D
Cheers
Rob
-
Sorry Rob Good Luck with your project.I would honestly like to help but its a long way from Grimsby to the east Wales If we can offer advice ask and sieve the answers because there is more ways than one of skinning the cat.I don't know where that saying comes from or if its only local but its true Why one would want to skin a moggie I've no idea.Unless one is Vietnamese? :D :farmer:
-
Hi Wizard
No idea why you should be sorry! I've really appreciated yours and others input ;D
Re the drainage, who would be the best experts to employ do you think? If I only go to a drainage expert I'm sure they'd sort the ground out but fear they may not be fully aware of the impact to the well which is our only source of water. Just one of many themes/scenario's/questions running through my head lol.
Cheers
Rob
-
Hello Rod I was sorry I omitted to wish you well in my first post.I cannot help with your drainage I do not know contractors your side the country.Here I without hesitation would reccomend Brader Bros but thats no use to you.Local NFU Office I am sure would reccomend a suitable contractor George
-
Excellent, thanks Wizard ;)
Cheers
Rob
-
Planning people do seem to be a very strange breed round my way, they wont let you do anything without a fight
All part of the fun I guess ;D
-
yep planning Dept's can be 'funny' to say the least...so can the weather ...it blows trees down that then HAVE to be removed for safety sake !!! , and as for lorry drivers who hit walls and knock them over , and then dissapear without leaving any details well ... it happens all the time ...funny old world isn't it ?
cheers
Russ
-
I've said it before, but I'll say it again - I REALLy like your style, Russ. Funnily it occurred to me that as the entrance was narrow it could get knocked down easily ;) ;) ;)
-
::) ;D ;D... cheers Annie.... ;D I just think outside the box most of the time , always have done really . But I did have EXACTLY the same problem when I had a house of my own years ago . No way would I get permission to cut the trees down that blocked all the light in my kitchen and garden ,( 3 60' Ash trees ) ,or to knock down 5 foot of the stone wall that went round my garden , which as it happened, the bit I wanted to knock down was falling down anyway !!! So one windy night ( well just a bit after the wind had died down actually !!), I was out there at 4 in the morning with the bow saw !!!!! :o ::) Oops Problem solved . Then bugger me , someone hit the wall one night and knocked it over .... ::) ::) ::) er... problem solved again . I repaired the wall, but it ended up 5 foot shorter than before , and the trees kept me warm all winter , and all the neighbours said how much lighter it was there and wasn't it good that the wind had blown them down ? ...wasn't it just !!! :o ::) ::)
cheers
Russ
-
rusty you must of read my mind, think twice before ringing planning people there are other crafty ways of getting things done, we had a huge row with planners when we excavated some ground to get better access to livestock buildings, planners argued that we should go for change of use as its now being used for residential which was absolute rubbish, we refused to back down and never heard any more. seems to be a huge lack of common sense with planners. The tree you want to remove may be unsafe? go and plant 50 trees somewhere else on your land!
-
Thanks Rusty & Garden Cottage I do believe the weather in mid-wales is notoriously bad this time of year ;) ;)
Appreciate the 'thinking out of the box' ;D. Tho' I do have a neighbour nearby also and dont want to pee him off just shortly after I move in so need to think how to appease him.
Thanks again guys!
Rob
-
Rob check there isn't a silly bluddi conservation order on the tree.Chap across the road removed a straggly worn out Yew from the middle of his drive way one has to drive either side of it.He had the tree surgeons fell it and dig out the root he then reinstated the drive grand job Council took him to court and he has had to replace it.It was to do with some ancient boundary or something.He is still hopping mad.Suggest you don't mention it if you meet ??? :farmer:
-
Accidently drill some holes in the base of the tree just below ground level, the accidently fill them with Petrol :o
2 months later the tree will be dead
So what ever you do be very careful with your drill and petrol ;)
-
Why go to all that bother DM just leave a rusty can of diesel against it.You cannot plant anything in the ground there for a couple of years though.Mind you dont want to do you :farmer:
-
Good grief, I didn't realise I was consorting with a gang of crooks ;D ;D ;D ;D Up to all the dodges ain't we? ;)
-
MMMmmmm ....
not me guv... not me !!!!!
I ain't dun nuffin 'onest !! nuffin !!
A man's got a heart hasn't he ?,
joking apart ,hasn't he ?,
and tho' i'd be the first one to say I wasn't a saint ....
i'm finding it hard to be really as black as they paint .....
I'm.....
reviewing ,
the situation ,
can a fellow be a villian all his life ?
all the trials and tribulations ,
better settle down and get myself a wife.
And the wife would cook and sew for me ,
and come for me and go for me ,
and go for me and nag at me ,
the finger she will wag at me,
the money she will take from me,
A misery she'll make for me......
I think i'd better think it out again !!!!
cheers
Fagin er Russ
-
Well Annie I look at it like this one gets no where playing by the rules don't ask, do it and let them correct you if they find out you have done it.Then they have to prove malicious intent ;D ;D :farmer:
-
would a narrow entrance with high stone walls not be a traffic hazard. if you were to say it was to improve safty you could make a good case. if its onto a public road don't you need the roads/planning peoples consent to alter access points.
-
Hi Rob
cant believe I missed this thread.
I am in IT too and recently moved to get out of it all - not quite out of it yet as its paying for everything - but nearly!!
We had some real issues with our access lane, had to tow out countless people over the winter as there is no turning at the end of the council road and everyone comes down our drive looking for one.
We had to drive to collect everything in the mail as delivery drivers are the worst at trying to drive on anything except tarmac as their throttle only has two positions - either full on or off!
As far as I know you do need planning but its easier to get it to move a wall than a hedge. We bought a mini digger - but soon found that it was a job for a professional with the right equipment.
I thought long and hard about applying for permission - but as its an open forum the less I say the better ;) I have also got planning permission for something else on the go and its taken 8 months with no word so far so I was not really prepared to be spending next year doing the same amount of towing.
The wall still exists in some sense of the word but its a horizontal one now - lol
I can see why such things have protection - but I am sure that protection was designed to protect boundaries in their totality rather than blocking people from using modern essential vehicles and having safe access. However sometimes the planning departments have to be seen to take control to justify their own existence.
If anything comes a cropper with me I have plenty to justify my actions, one previous owner has already died in this house due to a fire/smoke. I dont want to be in a position where I have to tow a fire engine down our track if heaven forbid it ever happens again. I am also in charge of hundred of other hedges which wont be destroyed and have planted over £1000 worth of bushes in other hedges and rebuilt walls across our farm after them being knocked down by free range sheep owned by the previous owner.
Personally speaking - I would knock it down and deal with it after. Its not like your looking to destroy it completely.
Ta
Baz