The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: Hillview Farm on June 25, 2015, 09:27:43 am
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My head is all over the place so I'm here to ask you lot your opinion.
I've had my sheep over three years now, started with 6 now have over 80. When I started I was working part time but now working full time and I'm struggling.
At the moment it seems like blow after Blow. Got a very sick ewe and I'm waiting for the vet as we speak. So I've had to beg my boss to let me go.
I do make a healthy bit of money from them but I'm stretching myself to the limit and feel like I'm not getting a lot back in return apart from stress, worry and at the moment problems.
My biggest problem is will my life be empty with the time freed up? It will break my heart to see them go and I doubt I'll be able to be fortunate enough to get land as easy as I did if I wanted to start up again.
What do you all think?
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Couldn't you just reduce the numbers?
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Do you cull hard for problem animals? Do you have an easy to maintain and hardy breed? Sounds like you need sheep that will look after themselves :). It would be a shame to ditch them if you enjoy having them (when they are not having problems).
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Hi, I was going to say the same, does it have to be all or nothing? The one thing I really would advise is make the decision when things have settled down and are not going wrong, when your head feels clearer. A couple of time this spring when I was running everywhere I wasn't sure I was doing the right thing, but once everything was sorted and I had time - I was able to look back and decide what I could do, wanted to change and what I didn't want to do again. I did make changes, but I had time to think first when things didn't look so bleak. Good luck with whatever you decide. I hope it goes well for you and the vet has good news.
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Sorry to hear this :hug:
Looks like you're going to get a financial hit either way. Could you afford to work at your job a day less?
Sounds drastic, but quality of life is more important I think. I certainly love my sheep more than my day job!
Good luck x
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Go PT and reduce numbers, good luck xx
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I run about 200 sheep alongside a full-time job, and other contract shepherding work. They are also on rented ground all over the place. We are adding another 60 ewes this summer.
It is possible with the right sheep and system.
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Reducing numbers to say about a dozen or 15-20 would be better than getting rid of the whole lot. My advice would be to pick out your best ewes and keep them back, that way you would have the cream of your flock and also you would have the joy of seeing them every day. I had to do this a few years ago when I was going to make my Lleyn flock pedigree, still working at it though. Are they a pure breed or crossed? You can make quite a bit through society sales and showing, it gives you a very good reputation for keeping excellent stock, then you can have a medium sized flock and have the best too. You could buy better and better rams and sell the rams you get from them at society sales. Hope this helps :)
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If I'm honest, the numbers aren't the problem. It takes more or less the same time to check them and head count etc. I have to check them twice a day following issues with dogs last year. Otherwise I can't sleep at night. I've got to drive there twice a day.
Breed wise, they look after themselves. Lost a ewe over the weekend to what I thought was a freak accident but the ewe today is slightly simular and looks like poisoning :(
Unfortunately going part time isn't an option either as myself and my partner work on the same farm and live on site so I doubt it would go down very well with the boss. it's 7 days a week and 12-14 hours a day sometimes more
I'm going away next week on my own so I can do some thinking then and write pros and cons out.
Got a lump in my throat just thinking about it :(
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Some very helpful suggestions above, I think.
We used to have a much larger flock once than we have now, the reduction forced by ill health. We simply couldn't manage that number of animals well, so our flock health was starting to suffer, and we were constantly chasing our tails. We looked at the economics of what we were doing, and realised that financially inputs equal outputs however many sheep you have (ie not a lot of profit in there) so we might as well cut down on numbers, concentrate on quality, and in our case specialise in the Ancient Type Hebs we now keep.
It's worked a treat. We are far more relaxed and can take our time, our reduced stocking rate has helped the flock's health so much, we have time to enjoy not just the sheep but all the other aspects of our smallholding life too. There is a constant tendency to let numbers creep up again, but we are aware of that, and fighting against it.
With too many sheep, as with too much of work of any kind, you end up constantly chasing your tail. I agree with others that you don't want to make a final judgement while everything's going wrong, but wait until you have a quiet, less stressed moment, and think things through carefully, including why you keep the sheep at all.
Cross posted with your latest HV. How do you manage the big tasks like lambing, foot care, shearing and so on? If you are having to skimp on these then you will not feel happy with what you are doing. It's not so much the daily checks, but more the big things.
It sounds as if you are running yourself into the ground, with a full-on job and a heavy workload hobby, so something does have to give.
Enjoy your time away and I hope it helps you to work things out.
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Thank you for all the comments so far. Fleece wife for big tasks I book holiday months and months in advance.
I do feel like I'm chasing my tail. Welfare wise, there's not an issue. Maybe with a better handling system in place It would make jobs like vaccinating lambs and doing the fly treatment quicker.
Will look at reducing numbers slightly. The thing I struggling with the most is the afternoon check. I never really know when I'm going to finish and then I've got housework and dinner and bed. Any little time off I get is spent chasing sheep!
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Any retired folks around that could check/count the flock, part time farm hands looking for an extra bob or two? Nearby farmer who could check your flock when he checks his own herd/flock? Advertise for a couple of hours help a day.
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HV, you have my sympathies. Is it the driving distance twice a day that is the main issue? Not easy to fix that one unless reducing the numbers of sheep meant you could keep them all closer to you??
One thing I am sure of..... this is just the sort of stress that can make you ill. And if you fall ill then the wheel comes off everything: sheep, family, day job. So you have to tackle the problem before that happens, to be fair to yourself. We can only do what we can do so you also need to stop feeling guilty about what you cant do..... you aren't a superhero.
Take a deep breath and be brutally honest with yourself
XX
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We bought a Modulamb sheep handling system a few years ago and it cut the time spent on tasks like foot checks, vaccinating, worming and using pour on to about 20% of what it had been. We've always culled very hard for problem sheep and lambing continues to get easier every year. We also cull older ewes that don't keep their condition all through lactation, so we don't have to cosset them during pregnancy and lambing the following year. We bought a whole small flock to start with, from someone who was retiring, and now have four times the sheep and a quarter the work.
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Welfare wise, there's not an issue.
As you're doing some soul-searching next week, I will comment on this.
I wonder if you are a little bit in denial... If you have to book time to do whole-flock treatments 'months and months in advance', then you cannot react quickly if something unexpected happens (and also must be using prophylactic treatments or you would be getting the unscheduled need for treatment.)
My own wee fleece flock is very happy where I am keeping them, but I have no handling pens there and it takes some organising and help to get them back to the farmstead for treatments. Fitting their needs in around the 'proper sheep' and cattle sometimes means that I am not getting my hands on them quite as promptly as I might like. I'd never let them suffer, of course, but I know, deep down, that they wait longer for treatment sometimes than I would like.
And compromises have to be made. Some of the boys got burdizzoed this year as I wasn't able to get them in to catch the lambs that were too small to ring when I could catch them in the field ::). (Actually, the burdizzoing went fine, so I will be happy to do that again. We burdizzo the bullocks, so BH knows exactly what he's doing.) I've been watching a few girls with daggy backends like a hawk in case they got strucken before clipping. (They didn't, this year - too cold for flies, mostly.) I won't bring in any more longwools for this reason (but will breed more longwool x Shetland, they seem to manage better on the whole. I'll cull / not breed from any crosess that get mucky.) I hand-reared a lamb which was rejecting its (first-time) mother, because on that day with that sheep, I wasn't able to bring the family in for bonding. Indi is fine, a lovely lamb doing really well, and her mum is making a great job of her sister - but Indi would've done better on her own mother, if I could have managed it.
So no-one comes to any harm, but I know in my heart of hearts that I can't always do things as well as I would like. And I suspect, that in your heart of hearts, you may feel the same. :hug:
I've got a very low stocking density down there, so they are managing very well with few treatments so far. But I do need to take care to not let the numbers increase to a point where the worms and fluke build up... (We do graze with cattle when we can, but can't always do that as much as we'd like, if the river is very low or the ground is too muddy...)
So I am rigorous on culling sheep that have bad feet, seem to keep getting worms / mucky backsides, and so on, to reduce the incidence of needing to bring them in.
Now I know that my sheep live the life of Riley and are very happy. But even so, those days when I know I have some wormy backsides I can't yet dose, some boys getting larger and not yet burdizzoed, there is a niggling little stress inside somewhere...
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Some good points above. What are your options?
Sell all
Sell some
Sell none and carry on as you are
Invest in things to make life easier (dog, handling kit, cctv... etc)
Share farm?? Sell half to someone else, split costs and what not
Ummmmmm. I'm out.
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Next question... what do you like about your own sheep? Is it the sheep? Having your own flock under your own control? What?
Depending on the answer to that, there may be other options to consider ;)
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And if you are about to do some soul-searching, it might be a good time to do this test Johannes Schneider Color Oracle (http://www.astro.com/cgi/atxgen.cgi?btyp=cf). I did it for a bit of fun, and you have no idea what soul-searching it has prompted!
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Haha hilarious! I wonder if everyone picks the same?
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Haha hilarious! I wonder if everyone picks the same?
So what did you get? I'm a control freak :-J
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I've done this, or a very similar, test before about 40 years ago. At that time it was pieces of coloured paper and a very large explanatory book. The previous test was, I thought, spot on. This one was mainly correct with some notable wild inaccuracies- fear of failure was one! It did say I was striving for inner peace and was frustrated by not being allowed to achieve it, which is correct and probably applies to everyone.
As Sally says though, it is a bit of fun and does prompt some thought.
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Sally, I didn't explain very well. Things like lambing I book months in advance. Shearing is done a month in advance penciled in with my boss in case of bad weatherr the same with all routine work.
I get up early enough in the mornings to deal with any problems such as lame etc so welfare wise I don't think they suffer.
I love my sheep, I see them as pets that make me money and bring me happiness most of the time. This morning I was having a meltdown lol.
Life would be easier with a handling system. So I can do it on my own quickly and easily. But round ups can be difficult on my own at the moment and sadly a dog is off the cards.
I will have a look to see if anyone locally can do the afternoon check a couple times a week but I will definitely have a long hard think while I'm away. Soul search.
I just don't know how I would cope without them in my life.
I will read through all the comments tonight but thank you everyone for your input :)
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Oh I'd love a nice handling system too. But this year some posts have been put in the ground against a post n rail fencing and so now we have a race. Up til this I /we would catch each sheep in a pen and cup them under the chin to dose. The thought of doing big routine was like a huge cloud hanging over my head, a mountain to climb, and back breakng.I would take hours and hours getting them dosed. But now having at least a length of solid race,it's so so much easier, line em up n away you go. A few days ago the race was extended, couple more posts n rails.
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Also we don't have a dog, ours are bucket led and very good at it too, bit too good sometimes :innocent: So perhaps you could get them to come to bucket. Even our old birds are converts.
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Some good points above. What are your options?
Sell all
Sell some
Sell none and carry on as you are
Invest in things to make life easier (dog, handling kit, cctv... etc)
Share farm?? Sell half to someone else, split costs and what not
Ummmmmm. I'm out.
Not sell half! how about renting half, that way you keep the land and get money too. :)
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Hi
as i was reading the opening post I was thinking 'reduce numbers', I still think thats the way to go, it may not seem like numbers is an issue, but I'll bet just reducing to half will lift a lot of stress. Maybe in time let them increase a little again, seeing how you feel.
Getting someone to look over them a few times a week may also just give you that few days 'half break' and breathing space.
I think we are all the same, could manage with less, but couldn't live without them, (well admittedly mainly goats in my place), but I understand how you feel, not enough hours in the day (or maybe too many? ??? ).
My sheep come to the bucket as well, but I have to catch them to take to a friends for shearing, that will be interesting!
Good luck with whatever you decide.
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Unfortunately going part time isn't an option either as myself and my partner work on the same farm and live on site so I doubt it would go down very well with the boss. it's 7 days a week and 12-14 hours a day sometimes more
I'm going away next week on my own so I can do some thinking then and write pros and cons out.
Everyone else seems to have covered the sheep options. I however would like to focus on the above ... is this not at least part of the problem? Why are you working 7 days a week? Everyone is legally entitled to one day a week off... and more if working those hours .... I think as part of your ponderings ... think over the 'whole' picture.
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I've been having a few times like this recently, when it's all got overwhelming.
I'm trying to get systems in place to make things easier to manage on my own and to ask for help when I need to.
Why did you get sheep to start with?
Are they still fulfilling that.
Was there a point in the last three years when it felt right, when work / the rest of your life felt in balance?
Is it possible to get back to that point.
It sounds like you need some regular time to just be.
Now if I could follow my own suggestions I'd be fine. ::)
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Find a friend with a good dog. . . . . it'll take the hassle out of it!
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What about an Atv to round up the sheep fast and easy? You can buy aborder collie fully trained for 1500 ££s on preloved
http://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/show/113200283/working-sheepdog-for-sale.html (http://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/show/113200283/working-sheepdog-for-sale.html)
This one is £800 fully working.
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Fully working at 10 months . . . . . . . . :innocent:
Don't believe all you read.
But then, my young bitch is only 12 months, no where near fully trained, but has a half decent outrun, a very good stop and walk on, and will come away from the sheep on command, and I would be buggered without her!!!!!
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They reckon a year under each leg before fully trained/peak of their powers. I will have to book Taff in for an amputation :tired:
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Find a friend with a good dog. . . . . it'll take the hassle out of it!
Not really,
my ram is limping but since being rounded up for shearing by my neighbour with his dog I can't get near him and there's no way I can get him out of the field into the yard and possibly then into the shed on my own now.
So he'll have to carry on limping until the farmer can come back with his dog, probably not until Sunday afternoon.
43 ewes, lambs and shearlings no problem I call them and rattle a bucket they come running down. They haven't been scared by a man and dog.
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You are kind of just confirming my point.
If you had a decent dog, you would be able to get your limping ram in, whether he fancied it or not.
With the bucket method, not only is it quite impractical in many situations, and also relies on feeding your sheep (which we don't). . . . . but it is entirely dependant upon all of the sheep fancying playing ball!
Serious sheep farming with no dog is my idea of hell!
But that's maybe just me!
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I wasn't commenting so much on having a dog or not but the idea of relying on another person with a dog.
It's more the having to wait for help that's a problem.
I only feed mine around lambing time.
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My biggest problem is will my life be empty with the time freed up?
Seems to me that you need to find a way to downsize but still keep your hand in. No suggestions plenty of others have commented BUT Managing your time will reduce stress and maximise enjoyment. If its just a question of handling speaking as a single hander without a dog, having a good system for rounding up and handling sheep will make a huge difference to how you can feel you can cope.