The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: Tamsjute on June 24, 2015, 08:16:03 pm
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I'm gradually getting the fencing sorted out to make it dog/shetland/foal and sheep proof - not to mention toddler escape resistant, but she climbs so I'm stuck there!
I hope to get a small herd of sheep maybe next year, this will be my first experience with sheep, so I'd like something hardy and can cope with a few mistakes to start off with. What would be the best breeds to consider?
I have 25 acres of rough grazing (a present there are a lot of rushes growing, but that is anther project of mine!) I have 6 native ponies who will be cross grazing with the sheep. Some of the fields can be wet, although due to my massive fencing project would just be keeping them to the dryest fields to begin with. I have a small shelter which has been used for sheep by the previous occupants I also have access to an experienced commercial sheep farmer who is my neighbour for advice.
I would just be keeping sheep to cross graze with the ponies and as a bit of a hobby to begin with, so no plans for a huge operation of any kind.
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We keep Ryelands so of course we would recommend them. They are docile, not too big, not given to wandering, produce wonderful lamb off grass at six months (so you don't need to castrate your tup lambs), good fleece ( you can also get Coloured Ryelands that produce fleece from dark brown to silvery gray / brown). One of the great things about Ryelands is that they seem to have a good resistance to footrot.
We've found them to be easy to keep - not as easy lambing as the primitives but don't require much intervention.
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I'll put a pitch in for Jacobs - no foot problems and no worming so far (after a year). Very easy lambing, no help required. Interesting to look at and lambs are doing really well off just grass. No illnesses either. They can be a bit flighty at first but ours are pretty tame now. Only downside is your commercial farmer friend might turn his nose up at them!
We were first timers last year and while it's been a steep learning curve, we've really enjoyed it and there's loads of experience and information on here.
You can get different animals from different breeders of the same breed so having someone experienced in a breed look over potential purchases or give you advice would be really helpful.
Where in the country are you?
Good luck!
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Where are you as this could make a difference.
Here we have Llanwenogs .... very friendly, lovely wool, and compare well with commercials on growth ( http://llanwenog-sheep.co.uk/index.php/news-events/news/251-bridgwater-update-jan-15 (http://llanwenog-sheep.co.uk/index.php/news-events/news/251-bridgwater-update-jan-15) ) yet are still a rare breed ... Oh and best .. they are the real Shaun the sheep!
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Couple of obvious questions -
What kind of ground?
Why do you want sheep? (i.e meat, wool, milk, ornamental, commercial, conservation grazing etc)
How many will you run?
What kind of system do you want? (I.e indoor/outdoor lambing, sell fat lambs at the mart, in a box, sell breeding sheep etc).
What do you actually like the look / sound of?
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Hi there and welcome.
We run Castlemilk Moorits who are easy to deal with and very self sufficient but without the wildness that some of the more native breeds can have.
With the added bonus of helping to keep a rare breed going of course.
Of course, you will get lots of people like me saying their breed is the best but the most important thing is that you do your own research and choose a breed that you like - you are more likely to be successful with a breed that you like.
Regards
Mark
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I think the answer really is what breed do you take a fancy too x how much time do you have to spare on them - my vote goes to the Hebridean - see FB page below - as I dont have a great deal of spare time and they lamb and work away fine with only the odd bit of husbandry required
Find a breed you have a passion for -visit others and rare breed sales and get hands on - make sure you and others involved are physically capable of handling them 2
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As someone who started as a total novice 6 years ago, with Wiltshire Horn, I would of course mention them as an option. We were drawn initially by the wool shedding, and the description of them and the "Easy-care" derivatives as "requiring minimal shepherding". In truth the only labour saving is that they don't require shearing or dagging and as a result tend to be less prone to flystrike problems. In every other way however they require time and attention. we did cross breed with lleyns (another fine sheep) and end up having problems getting a small flock sheared. consequently we have returned to wool shedders only.
as a breed we love them, easy to handle, etc etc but they still need looking after. I would agree with others in spending time around sales or shows and find a breed that ticks your boxes and/or that you can get passionate about. several years later the biggest tip I can give is not about a specific breed but about the importance of being prepared, have the right equipment and develop your own system. We spent 18 months without a sheep hurdle on the place- so I would recommend getting whatever breed you like the look of but first get some sheep hurdles !!
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I see you are in North Lanarkshire.
I'd suggest going to the Hebs and Shetlands sale at Lanark this year, 29th August, seeing if you like either of those breeds (and/or any other breeds that may be there on the day), and talking to some local breeders.
Your neighbouring commercial farmer will be a godsend, but so too would be a local expert in the breed that you choose ;).
Another option would be to get some commercial store lambs this year - let your neighbour advise you on which to get - to give yourselves an introduction to sheep-keeping. Make sure you buy animals of high health status though; you don't want to bring disease or resistant parasites onto your lovely virgin ground!
Then, once you have the basics of sheep-keeping under your belt, choose 'your' breed - or stick with commercials, if you like them.
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I suggest offering your ground for grazing to your farmer neighbour for a year and ask if you can help with stock tasks, so you can learn without responsibility for the stock. After that consider how you're going to sell your surplus sheep - may be worth consulting your local livestock market to see what sells.
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I will give the Jacobs another vote we started off with a flock of Jacobs to graze in with our horses had never owned sheep before and they are great in the fact that they are so hardy and need very little interference only down side as previously said they can be a bit flighty but do come round to a bucket. Once we were a bit more experienced we got Zwartbles and I find them fantastic they are so friendly and enjoy human attention. Also found the Jacobs were great for weed control in with our horses.
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Sally - R.E the commercial stores, at the current prices, you could buy a couple of pens of fat lambs, kill the males and keep the females. . . . and you'd probably get a bargain!
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No-one ever recommends Balwens as a starter flock.... probably cos they are mountain sheep and pesky (!).... but we really enjoy them... AND if you can manage them, anything after that must be a piece of cake :roflanim: :roflanim:
We've also added some shetlands, and being from a very loving and caring (TAS) home they are very manageable and a bit of a joy!
[our set up described in the sheep page of our website: www.smilingsheep.co.uk (http://www.smilingsheep.co.uk)]
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Zwartbles are big sheep that look good. With only a handful you could make friends and halter train, then tie up to work on them. The biggest downside is some strains are prone to foot problems.
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Tamsjute is describing wet ground, so it might be best to avoid sheep that are prone to foot problems, and also any that are used to rocky mountainous terrain. (Those are often not happy on permanently soggy footing.)
Best feet so far in my experience are the primitives, by a country mile.
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I was going to suggest that, given the wetness, any of the Welsh breeds would do :)
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Any sheep is going to struggle with constant wetness, both with feet and fluke.
However, as said, some breeds are better than others.
But a point that many on here seem to miss totally, is that there is probably more variation within breeds than between them.
I.E A hardy welsh breed, from a small flock that is pampered, not culled for problems, and comes from very different ground (no matter where they were meant to come from traditionally) is going to struggle on a very different system . . . . . . . . . whereas even a traditionally 'softer' breed, if selected and culled hard, and from similar ground, is going to do better.
The most important thing is to go see the sheep, and check they are currently doing what you want them to do at yours.
I run wool shedders of a couple of types, and cull them hard for any issues, and they generally live, lamb and grow well on marginal ground here, cause me little bother, and do well enough commercially.
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I.E A hardy welsh breed, from a small flock that is pampered, not culled for problems, and comes from very different ground (no matter where they were meant to come from traditionally) is going to struggle on a very different system . . . . . . . . . whereas even a traditionally 'softer' breed, if selected and culled hard, and from similar ground, is going to do better.
The most important thing is to go see the sheep, and check they are currently doing what you want them to do at yours.
+1
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Stay well away from primitive breeds unless you want to spend your life looking for them or a market to sell what you breed.
Look over the fence and that will give you a clue to what you need.
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Wow lots of good advice there.
Yes we are in North Lanarkshire Scotland. We have 25 acres of rough grazing, some of it being wet in the winter months, but room in all fields to get out of the wet and keep feet dry. We have shelter if needed too- for lambing or in bad weather.
I am a housewife/full time mum/mucker outter and general dogs body around the farm - so I have maybe a good few hours in a day if needed most days, but a hardy breed with less intervention involved would be better, just in case I don't have those hours due to something cropping up.
I do like Jacobs - when we moved in the previous owner left a sheep here - it was very flighty, she had said it was old and when we first looked at the property there were 3 here (I have since found their bones!).
About the 2nd day we were in the house we managed to find the sheep. This old sheep looked to me as if it was not well - I managed to catch it (it wasn't difficult) it was absolutely skin and bone, so I thought I'd bring it in to the barn and give it some tlc, or a more dignified death. The poor thing collapsed as I was wondering how to get it up the hill with a toddler in the other hand, all I could do was sit and stroke its head while it breathed its last breaths. The toddler kept asking why the cow was asleep.
He was a big handsome sheep - or would have been with 4 horns and was brown and white, was a shame we couldn't have more time with him.
I also like shetlands but am worried about them being small and may escape easily if they found a hole in the fence.
I will reread all your suggestions and of course visit the sales at Lanark to see what's there and not rush any descions.
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The agricultural shows are worth a visit at this time of year - lots of different breeds on display, so you can talk to the owners (they'll be keen to speak to you if you're a potential customer) and see what takes your fancy and will suit your ground. :thumbsup:
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Another vote for Zwartbles. Lovely natures - follow a bucket anywhere - generally large sheep but not all of them are. There is a variation in type - some taller, rangier types and others shorter and more fleshy. Meat tastes good from either! Personally don't have foot problems with mine apart from those caused by thorns! Scottish sale coming up on Wednesday 8th July at United Auctions, Stirling.
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Lleyn or zwartbles are good sheep to start with. They're easy to manage and are very milky, easy lambers, fantastic mothers and the lambs are strong. Plus the meat is fantastic. I would advise when killing the lambs for meat to leave them a year, so you can slaughter them at 12 months. It gives time for the fat layer to develops, in zwartbles that is Lleyn can be given 8-12 months and the meat tastes excellent. The reason why zwartbles must not be slaughtered before 12 months is because they are quite a lean animal and there lean fat layer must develope otherwise it is tasteless. At 12 months their carcase has developed. Another sheep to start with is a British milksheep, I started out with them, fantastic they're just like the Lleyn. Hope this helps and all the best. :thumbsup:
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Just wanted to add my own experience re zwartbles lamb meat
My zwartbles boys (uncastrated) go off for slaughter straight from their mums, usually at about 16 weeks. They are typically around 50kg at that point. The meat is certainly on the lean side but very tasty! Mine are sold privately as half lambs and have repeat customers who love it.
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Black Welsh Mountain sheep! They are gorgeous and very easy! Hands down best breed for you or anyone haha yes I am biased but they were what I started with and they are just perfect!
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What about Balwens? Don't tell himself but I'd secretly love a little flock of them :innocent:
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Balwens are good too! Just a bit more tricky to get the markings right. But a good hardy breed none the less!
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Sorry Castle Farm I take exception to your comment about primatives there are plenty of folks on this forum with these kinds of sheep who don't need to go looking for them, I have never had any go walk about and there is always a market for good stock. I have always been able to sell my surplus with ease. So to wind up your statement is false.
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Don't rise to the bait, bc :hug:. We who have primitives and know their strengths thumb our noses to those who cannot manage them ;)
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I did an awful lot of research before we opted for Ryelands as our very first sheep ( I Im a bit of an obsessive!). We picked up our first lambs today and they were so , so easy to catch, load, travel and settle in here. They said "hello" nicely to our 2 Highland ponies with lots of confidence, had a bit of an explore and then set about happy grazing. They are now peacefully cudding and we are so happy with them.
Yes, its our very first day as sheep keepers, so we know next-to-nothing but we think we got it right in choosing Ryelands
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Hebrideans were our first sheep. Don't get me wrong, they still get the same problems as other sheep, but they are in our experience much less prone and are more forgiving to the novice. Best advice though is just look at what your neighbouring farmers have and get them. They will have them for a reason. Best bet is to try and buy some draft ewes or possibly hoggs off them. They will be used to the area and if you buy the older ones will be adapted to the conditions and should be easy lambers - otherwise they wouldn't still be there.
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Might be easier to ask which sheep not to keep as everyone has their favourite and perhaps it is more about which would or would not cope with your conditions. I started with Coloured Ryelands a year ago as I wanted polled, coloured and 'easy' sheep and these ticked all the boxes. I wanted polled to allow flexibility with electric fencing as I also keep angora goats and they monopolise the stock fenced fields. Like you I wanted to cross graze with horses. I am very pleased with my choice, lambing was great fun even for the sheep I think!
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Ok, lots more great advice.
Am narrowing down a little now.....
Looking over the fences seems to be a real mixture. A lot of Texels and Black face crosses around, a field full of Shetlands on the corner (although they seem to have a few problems and appear to be dying off due to owner not being able to attend to them as he would normally do as his elderly wife has dementure) Also I'm told the next farm has Jacobs which the owner used to show along with his Shetlands in his younger days.
As I said before there were Jacobs here - the previous owner was a bit of an animal rescuer and refused to castrate lambs as she felt it was cruel. Apparently the place had Jacobs all over the place (probably inbred!) and they eventually died out naturally - I believe someone interviened to take out the tups and left just wethers so no more breeding went on.
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I think when you look over the fence you will see different breeds depending on who your neighbours are. Commercial framers will have commercial breeds and then you may get a smallholder who breeds more traditional breeds etc. When i lived in Dorset I was surrounded by Dorsets, Texels, mules, suffolks etc etc and then I had one neighbour who bred Manx and Portlands and another who had zoeys... And I had black welsh. Just get a good hardy breed that you like the look of, you have to look at them 365 days of the year so its pretty important you really like them! When you go to buy your foundation stock make sure you go for quality animals and you will be a happy camper or shepherd :)
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...ooooh! Portlands!! WOW: lovely
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I have Portlands and crosses of them on my farm, not mine I hasten to add. I wouldn't have them given. I spend more time with these few than the whole of my flock, bad feet, prone to fly strike, indifferent mothers. Give me my Herdwicks anytime.
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I just had a thought why not buy the Shetland sheep? off your neighbour, plus you could rent his land from him too, he might like that? :thinking:
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Zwartbles any time : look good and easy to manage !
http://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/show/113337009/zwartbles-and-zwartbles-cross-lambs-for-sale.html (http://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/show/113337009/zwartbles-and-zwartbles-cross-lambs-for-sale.html)
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It's probably wise to go for sheep who are best suited for your type of land, and that you like the look of - so hardy primitives or hill sheep? I have no experience of them but do have a soft spot for Shetlands and they can be very pretty colours :) . Not sure how they would cope on my lush lowland pasture though! Might also be better to have something that will come to you and not be too flighty, as it can make life difficult when you need to gather them in for whatever reason. Bucket training really does make life easier!
I started off about 7 years ago with six orphan commercial crossbreds given to me by a sheep farmer, I knew nothing about sheep at all ::) . So was thrown in at the deep end, but have never regretted it!
I now have an eclectic mix of all sorts! I have a lot of commercial types, and mainly breed lambs for market but love Gotlands, Zwartbles and Herdwick for their colour so have a few of these in my flock ;D . I've also had a few different breed tups and find it fascinating to see what I get each year from different breeding!
My Gotlands are sooooo friendly but I've found their crossbred lambs can be ridiculously flighty. They are also prone to foot problems, on my land anyway. My Herdwick was a total nutcase, was always looking for an escape route and if she couldn't find one would run over your head :o :o . BUT she has always been the most fantastic mum, and she has mellowed somewhat in her older age :) , I'm very fond of her. Most of the Zwartbles I've had have been very friendly. I have purebred Charollais who vary in their characters, some friendly and some not! But all have calmed down as they've got older.
If you want really friendly sheep, try and get some orphan lambs to bottle feed - if you can find the time!!
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I have more or less decided to a get a few lambs in September to run over the winter. Will go on grazing that the ponies come off until the Spring. Now i have had Ryelands and Jacobs in the past for breeding. What sort of price can I be expected to pay for either of these, if I can find any near me that is.
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We are smaller scale commercial farmers with experience of several breeds including Scottish Blackface, Cheviot, Lleyn, Suffolk, Shetland and Hebridean to name just a few. Of them all the Hebrideans have proven to be the easiest to deal with. We have crossed them with a cheviot tup and got lambs that are growing on very well. They lambed very easily, lambs have a lot of get up and go, despite my original worries, they are the only breed to have stayed where put, feet are good, short tails so strike less likely. Fleece not as good as others but all depends what you are looking for. One thing I would recommend is steer clear of Longwool breeds until more experienced.
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Sabrina we have just paid £50 each for our Ryeland boys who we are growing for the family freezer. We are also using them to follow the ponies. They are quite chunky boys too. We are very pleased with them.
Re the OP's question: Weve had our Ryelands for a week now and we aren't disappointed with our novice choice. We herded them up today without much trouble into our little home-made corral. I was then able to catch each one quite easily, put a halter on, tie him to the fence while I checked him over and dagged him (even very carefully on his "gentleman's tackle"! ) . I was able to check all their feet too. No wrestling. No escapees. And not too much sweat for the shepherd!
So , so far, Id say our very short experience of Ryelands is a good one.
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I have now chosen and put a deposit on 3 Jacob lambs, 2 ewes and a wether, who will be arriving later on this month. Very excited!
My little girl of 2 and a half years has chosen names for them - Mr Tumble, Balamory and Josie Jump, lol. I doubt there are any sheep in the world with those names :excited:
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I wish the youngsters in our family would come up with such interesting names! I actually avoid asking them for name suggestions as all they ever come up with is the name of their current boy/best friend, who of course they have fallen out with the next time they come... ::)
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My pet lambs were called this year (cause last yr we forgot to name them) Jeff, Greg and Genevieve (Jenna for short). So far we have had a ram lamb named Arthur negus :roflanim: a ewe lamb named fluffles, cause of the wool, and another ewe lamb named brandy, she had a sibling called napolean. :roflanim: all my buffaloes are named sensible names though. I have a young bull named after an Italian x welsh boxer called Calzagi.
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Rambo told me yesterday that he now wishes to be addressed as 'Your magnificence the great horn-ed one' He won't accept that it's a delusion of grandeur since castration. We aslo have Polar, Twiglet, Blue and Red and 2 guest sheep (we might end up keeping if no-one claims them soon) temporarily named Sexta/-us and Septima/-us once I get close enough to find which it is. Or if it's one of each it might be Willy-Nilly.
Getting to sanctuary field means a 200yds upstream wade after breaking out of their original field and gettng onto my property and the fences I'm responsible for are good. I''m getting a tad 'ucked off nagging neighbours to come get them. Now I tell them once and warn them they have a free month or the grazing will cost them more than the sheep are worth. It's one way to build up a no-slaughter pet flock.....