The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Smallholding => Wildlife => Topic started by: pgkevet on June 02, 2015, 02:23:04 pm
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We've seen one or two hares in years past but this year has been exceptional. It's difficcult to know true numbers 'cos one can;t be sure it isnlt the same hare in a different field but I came across group of three adults together in a corner of Home field at the same time as a youngster was in the garden.
Yesterday there were 3 (perhaps4) leverets in last year's veggie patch along with an adult and there was an adult by the grape vines at the same time.
I suspect that the leveret I;ve seen behind the hay store is seperate to these and possibly the leveret seen up by middle field top gate.
I'm not sure about the adult sen in far field or the adult flushed in oaktree field - let's face it these things move far and fast.
We've had one come within 20 paces of the conservatory doors and during 'the madness' had one runnig round and round the house early morning.
I'm glad to say only one rabbit seen.
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Yup. I definitely have more little grey hares this year than last too :thumbsup:.
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I definitely have fewer grey hairs this year :roflanim:I
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I love them to bits I won't let eney think hurt them .When lambing I leave food for them .
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one of my favourite UK animals, glad to say we have plenty around here :thumbsup:
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Actually I am quite jealous. Every year I look for the Mad March hare but still haven't seen one. I have seen quite a few around but never seen that spectacle
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I am really lucky there are a lot around us. Today I went into my grass field and there were four young ones playing, they normally scoot off because I have dogs but the dogs were at the house so they stood and looked at me before running down the ditch.
I live not that far from a RSPB site, so we have marsh harriers, buzzards, barn owl but the most surprising has been watching a kestrel hunting from my fence daily and catching they them mating before flying off, I can sit and watch them from my sofa.
A couple of months ago a heron flew over with a rat in its mouth, I could see its tail dandling, I couldn't understand how it could catch a rat, then I saw a buzzard taking off the opposite way, so I think it had mugged the buzzard.
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I am really lucky there are a lot around us. Today I went into my grass field and there were four young ones playing, they normally scoot off because I have dogs but the dogs were at the house so they stood and looked at me before running down the ditch.
I live not that far from a RSPB site, so we have marsh harriers, buzzards, barn owl but the most surprising has been watching a kestrel hunting from my fence daily and catching they them mating before flying off, I can sit and watch them from my sofa.
A couple of months ago a heron flew over with a rat in its mouth, I could see its tail dandling, I couldn't understand how it could catch a rat, then I saw a buzzard taking off the opposite way, so I think it had mugged the buzzard.
I'd imagine a rat would be easy picking for a heron as rats favour wetlands so much.
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Well you know what they say where hares are rabbits are not, and the other way round too. Hares and rabbits dont get along, I have rabbits here but no hares. However I have seen a hare once about 20 miles away. :roflanim:
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More hares around here than usual this year. I hope the rabbits vs hare thing is true because this is the time of year I generally have to dispatch rabbits with myxy.
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Apparently when you see hares boxing in the spring it is in fact a male and a female, the female testing the males strength. I think it is true, I was reading a book which a fellow farmer wrote( who had scientific knowledge ) and he wrote that hares and rabbits hate each other and they cannot live together.
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Well you know what they say where hares are rabbits are not, and the other way round too. Hares and rabbits dont get along, I have rabbits here but no hares. However I have seen a hare once about 20 miles away. :roflanim:
Where my lurchers are rabbits are not!
...or hares
....or foxes
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Well you know what they say where hares are rabbits are not, and the other way round too. Hares and rabbits dont get along, I have rabbits here but no hares. However I have seen a hare once about 20 miles away. :roflanim:
Thats odd 'cos i have both. More hares than rabbits but Hewey, Dewy and Louie live through the ditch fence by the far pond and the hares mostly in home field and the other end of the garden - and eating my cabbage.
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Well you know what they say where hares are rabbits are not, and the other way round too. Hares and rabbits dont get along, I have rabbits here but no hares. However I have seen a hare once about 20 miles away. :roflanim:
Here we have rabbits and blue hares together. The rabbits live in the field and the hares on the hill behind but the hares come down into our fields to eat my newly planted trees >:( and grass.
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Its one part of my job that I love, is seeing all the wildlife. Plenty hares up in Tayside this year.
However, folks should be vigilant for hare coursing.
There was some near Longforgan earlier this year and there was also some guys who got caught last year near Glendoick. I'm always keeping my eyes peeled and especially since harvest has started on the farms and second cut silage is getting underway.
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we have a fair fews hares at ours, but very few rabbits. not sure if the lack of rabbits is due to being surrounded by a burn. hares are magnificent.
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They taste nice too, almost a gamy flavour compared with rabbit. A much nicer meat :yum:
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What exactly is the problem with hare coursing (apart from it being illegal)? I can't see how blasting one of natures finest athletes with a shotgun is somehow more acceptable than running one with a good long dog, in a fair test. . . . . . . .
P.S I know of LOTS of ground that has rabbits and hares feeding a long side each other!
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What exactly is the problem with hare coursing (apart from it being illegal)? I can't see how blasting one of natures finest athletes with a shotgun is somehow more acceptable than running one with a good long dog, in a fair test. . . . . . . .
why do either? what harm are they doing anyone?
Had a young leveret in the garden last night-he was there while I was shutting up the ducks etc. By standing still, he came within a couple of feet from me-lovely creature. We don't seem to have rabbits around the house but there is a large warren at the farm across the valley which is only about .5 mile as the crow flies. Have always found it curious. We are a little more 'moor' though so maybe thats it.
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I'm not a fan really as they are one of my favourite animals. However, they do unfortunately act as an agricultural pest in some areas where they reach high levels.
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We have rabbits and hares about, but you never see them together, apart from the one time I was amazed to see a rabbit chase a hare off!
Beautiful creatures, magical somehow, couldn't shoot one, and don't know how anyone could watch them being chased + caught by dogs :-(. There again there is a lot about human behaviour I don't understand, cruelty to a living creature, to cause suffering for ones own pleasure ??? ??? ??? :( >:(
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The white hares we get cause devistation with young trees. Any tree under about 40cm tall gets the top nipped off. The really annoying thing is they don't eat the tree just leave the top lying on the ground. I must have had over 1000 trees damaged like this in the last 18 months.
I have shot 3 or 4 but it pains me to do it as they are such beautiful creatures and they get such a hard time. Quite a lot of estates in the highlands have conducted a genocide of hares, killing every last one for miles around to try and increase grouse numbers for shooting.
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We have rabbits and hares about, but you never see them together, apart from the one time I was amazed to see a rabbit chase a hare off!
Beautiful creatures, magical somehow, couldn't shoot one, and don't know how anyone could watch them being chased + caught by dogs :-(. There again there is a lot about human behaviour I don't understand, cruelty to a living creature, to cause suffering for ones own pleasure ??? ??? ??? :( >:(
It's funny how different human minds see things differently.
For me the Hare is the greatest wild athlete of the British isles. . . . running one with a single good dog, with fair law, in winter, seems to me a very fair way of acquiring a Hare for the pot, for more so than shooting or snaring one (as is legal). They are born to run, as is the sighthound, and it seems a fair and natural contest, with the weakest, or oldest being culled out and the fittest getting away to perpetuate a healthy population.
It's a bit like saying. . . . I don't understand how someone could bring life into this world, just in order to kill it for their own pleasure. They don't NEED to eat meat, they choose to because they like the taste. . . . and so put their sheep through the yearly struggles of carrying and rearing lambs, only to steal them from their mothers at a young age and kill them for profit or a tasty dinner. . . . . it's obviously a stupid thing to say, but its one way of looking at it, and something that a worrying number of folk buy into.
I'm not sure how, when you boil it down, catching a wild animal with a dog is somehow massively taboo. . . . it's one of the oldest forms of feeding yourself and your family are pre dates farming by quite a long time!
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To catch animals for food is one thing, to set 2 dogs after one in the name of sport is something I can't understand.
I have shot rabbits for the pot, grey squirrels because they cause damage in the fruit cage and veg garden, if I had a rifle I would have venison.
Maybe if we had TOO many hares about I would think about food value, for now and the near future I prefer to shoot them with a camera :)
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We have many brown hares. But don't see them as a pest. They live happily alongside plenty of rabbits, but range over a huge area and just don't hammer the crops in the same way. When they're all excited in spring they're cool to watch chasing and boxing, but about June they must be marking out territories or something and get so preoccupied with patrolling their routes around the field edges that if you stand still they'll come right up to about 2 meters away and pass on by without seeming to even see you! Even couple of people together, right in the open don't seem to put them off! [Between them, the otters and kingfishers, we could sell tickets!]
(No, I don't have any good photos, but I like this one taken from my car about February!)
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I worry when I see too many hares around here, because I know that the poachers will notice them too. They are not nice guys at all and heaven forbid if you cross their paths! Fortunately the worst I see/hear of them is them f'ing and blinding and eventually wheel spinning off, usually leaving rubbish out of their cars. I know a lot of the beat keepers round here had very unpleasant run ins with them.
I am not talking about one handler putting his running dog on a hare over land he has permission on here. We don't get those!
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I have shot 3 or 4 but it pains me to do it as they are such beautiful creatures and they get such a hard time. Quite a lot of estates in the highlands have conducted a genocide of hares, killing every last one for miles around to try and increase grouse numbers for shooting.
lets face it, they kill everything they perceive as doing shooting damage. Hands up, I do not understand shooting for anything other than the pot-organised shoots leave me cold and the few run ins I've had with shoots don't leave me well inclined towards the sort that do it. I do not see the appeal of blasting stuff for the hell of it. I did not appreciate the damage they can do to trees though.
Porterlauren, you do raise an interesting point. The rather romantic ideal of a lone hunter working hounds for the pot is one thing, the sort of hare coursing I witnessed when I was younger, quite another. I think its pitting animal against animal people find especially distasteful, even if it is natural to an extent.
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I love shooting! Hunting is a very primal thing, if you like it and get into it, incredibly satisfying. I don't think it's cruel in the way that something like bear or bull baiting would be..?
I used to really like working ferrets to rabbits, and have had the fortune to go out with both ferret and harris hawk, which was wonderful to watch.
Dog versus rabbits is quite something to watch. We like the hares, so don't control them. They are very odd animals.
I agree, the people who course hares seem to have plenty of dogs to out number the hares and seem to be a fairly rough crowd.
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The problem with some hunters is that sometimes they can be city boys who disregard property and livestock and who don't care where they shoot. Hunting for the pot is fine, and if you sell game for your business to city folk, game like pheasant and hare and all that, as long as its quick that's fine. I dont agree with killing animals for pleasure though. If you have to kill animals as pest control measures and to keep the hare or whatever game animals population in check thats fine.
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I think a lot of your comments hit the nail on the head. . . . I hang my shame at some of the people who call themselves hunters or lurcher men. But of course, like anything else, you only really notice the ones making a lot of noise, a lot of fuss and doing things in a disrespectful manner.
Trust me, I loathe those people, far far far more than you lot do. Not only do they disgust me with their hunting practices and attitudes, but they obviously turn everyone against the likes of me!
However, for all of the idiots you see with a pile of dogs, a white van and a stinking attitude. . . . . there is a man like me, walking quietly, respecting his environment and quarry and using his dog to fill the pot.
But I do have to admit that I gain pleasure from doing my pest control, or from filling my pot. Is it from the killing? Of course not, that fills me with a huge sadness. . . . its from working in synergy with my dog, watching her do what comes natural, and taking part in something that is as primeval as it comes.
I can't explain it properly, but I don't think it makes me a bad person!
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I think a lot of your comments hit the nail on the head. . . . I hang my shame at some of the people who call themselves hunters or lurcher men. But of course, like anything else, you only really notice the ones making a lot of noise, a lot of fuss and doing things in a disrespectful manner.
Trust me, I loathe those people, far far far more than you lot do. Not only do they disgust me with their hunting practices and attitudes, but they obviously turn everyone against the likes of me!
However, for all of the idiots you see with a pile of dogs, a white van and a stinking attitude. . . . . there is a man like me, walking quietly, respecting his environment and quarry and using his dog to fill the pot.
But I do have to admit that I gain pleasure from doing my pest control, or from filling my pot. Is it from the killing? Of course not, that fills me with a huge sadness. . . . its from working in synergy with my dog, watching her do what comes natural, and taking part in something that is as primeval as it comes.
I can't explain it properly, but I don't think it makes me a bad person!
No absolutely not I am not calling you a bad person in the least. I mean't those people who kill for fun not eating the animal, but just for the sheer fun of it that is what i don't agree with. I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings :(
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The people who turn up uninvited to run their dogs are dangerous. They wipe out entire populations of hares and have no regard for the countryside. When apprehended by the police one lot claimed they were only walking their dogs, they were from Manchester and brought their dogs to East Yorkshire to walk? The last time they were round that I know of they lost a dog, a very good dog. A local caught it and had it castrated then took it to a city down south to a dog pound. The long dog boys found it within 3 days but lost all interest in it once they discovered the castration. It now has a lovely country home with the locals relative.
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What exactly is the problem with hare coursing (apart from it being illegal)? I can't see how blasting one of natures finest athletes with a shotgun is somehow more acceptable than running one with a good long dog, in a fair test. . . . . . . .
P.S I know of LOTS of ground that has rabbits and hares feeding a long side each other!
It's the people who do the hare coursing that are the problem here in Wiltshire and surrounding counties. They come from some distance, are involved in criminal activity and cause damage to land and fencing, farm thefts increase etc. Back in the 1990s my father was threatened with a torque wrench, car and tractor tires where slashed and windows broken after confronting hare courses. I also know of two local farms that have had barns burnt down in the past couple of years after they confronting coursers. The police are of limited help.
Brown hares are still common in our area but they have declined in recent decades and they don't cause significant damage to crops so we don't shoot them anymore. We don't appropriate these 'undesirables' causing damage to our land etc and killing and disturbing our wildlife.
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Ever heard the phrase 'tarred with the same brush'.
These people are not burning barns, committing crimes and threatening people because they are hare coursers or lurcher men. . . . . . they are doing stuff like that because they are scum, quite often pikey scum. They have no respect for the dogs, land or quarry.
However, to suggest that everyone who hunts, or indeed courses hares, with a running dog, is automatically the above. . . . is just pure crap. And the biggest problem is that people are 100% buying into it. . . . . . which means that when someone spots a person like myself, with my dog, filling the game bag - they immediately call out all of the forces of law and order and treat me like a child molester!
The ban did absolutely nothing for the Hare what so ever. The numbers reduced in many parts of the country directly following the ban, and it also led to large numbers of idiots suddenly deciding to take up hunting with dogs because it was now illegal and cool.
If instead the hunting world had been allowed to get its own house in order, and ethical hunting promoted. . . . I think we would be in a far better state of affairs!
Luckily because I act like I do and have the attitude I do, I still have plenty of places where the locals and landowners are happy to see me and my dogs out for some meat and sport.
As for 'wiping out hares'. . . . . go and watch a hare drive on a big estate and then watch a days coursing and then tell me how many get away in each?
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Ever heard the phrase 'tarred with the same brush'.
These people are not burning barns, committing crimes and threatening people because they are hare coursers or lurcher men. . . . . . they are doing stuff like that because they are scum, quite often pikey scum. They have no respect for the dogs, land or quarry.
However, to suggest that everyone who hunts, or indeed courses hares, with a running dog, is automatically the above. . . . is just pure crap. And the biggest problem is that people are 100% buying into it. . . . . . which means that when someone spots a person like myself, with my dog, filling the game bag - they immediately call out all of the forces of law and order and treat me like a child molester!
The ban did absolutely nothing for the Hare what so ever. The numbers reduced in many parts of the country directly following the ban, and it also led to large numbers of idiots suddenly deciding to take up hunting with dogs because it was now illegal and cool.
If instead the hunting world had been allowed to get its own house in order, and ethical hunting promoted. . . . I think we would be in a far better state of affairs!
Luckily because I act like I do and have the attitude I do, I still have plenty of places where the locals and landowners are happy to see me and my dogs out for some meat and sport.
As for 'wiping out hares'. . . . . go and watch a hare drive on a big estate and then watch a days coursing and then tell me how many get away in each?
Whoa whoa whoa...I wasn't saying you or other 'traditional/legal' coursing people are like these guys - they are just criminals. We have a little pheasant/partridge shoot on the farm, people who come shoot the pigeons/roe deer/foxes, ferret & dog men etc, who we know and trust (people similar to yourself I'm guessing), they are friends and help us keep an eye on the 'undesirables'...all for hunting for the pot (I'm not the enemy, I'm probably one of the friendly people who'd let you on our land!)
It's just that not many people know the problems that criminal hare coursing does to this area - I wanted to express the huge problems here. It's the people (i.e. the criminals) not the traditional sport I was having a go at, sorry if it didn't come away as that.
I also never said anything about coursing wiping out hares - I said hares were still common here (hence why we get the criminals!) but have declined in recent decades, which is why we don't hunt them. Their decline is most likely due to changes in cropping patterns and moving away from mixed farming etc.
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Sorry if I came across as overly defensive Harebell. I was just trying to make the point (from the start of this thread) that hare coursing itself is not innatly evil / wrong and that those who do / did it are not themselves innatly evil / wrong. But that there are a certain type of people who unfortunatly give it a bad name (like all hunting with dogs).
The two areas of attack for most people are 1 ) it is barbaric and cruel and 2 ) it is carried out by scum bags.
My argument would be 1 ) it is no more barbaric or cruel than many many practices that we accept and in fact are probably carried out by those who attack the activity and 2 ) whilst there ARE scum involved, there are just as many really nice, respectful folk, who get equally as annoyed by the scum as you guys!
As to the wiping out hares - that was to the post above yours. And whilst I agree that some groups of lads love bashing leverets in late summer with too many dogs and no fair law allowed. . . . and they do quite a bit of damage to the population (especially small populations), a man with a rifle, or a group doing a drive with shotguns can cause a hell of a lot more damage to a population.
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It was me that said about wiping out hare populations. These people are not hunters and do not have permission. They find an area with hares and then come two or three times a week until there are no hares left to chase. They access the fields by travelling across country away from farmhouses and they only stop if police and farmwatch members turn out to interrupt them.
I used to enjoy watching properly organised coursing events.
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I bet they are also often of the travelling fraternity . . . . .
Back before the ban, a coursing club was a very good way to protect the hares ironically enough!
BM - Its great to hear that you have had the chance to watch and enjoy organised coursing!
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The madness begins!
Just seen the first one 'hare' into the garden, round the dutch barn and up the drive. It was great last year when they were up early morning racing round and round the house.
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Photos needed :)
I love how close you can get to them when they're like this!