The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Poultry & Waterfowl => Topic started by: Helencus on February 22, 2010, 12:48:40 pm
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Hi, is there any legislation I need to be aware of and comply with if I want to sell eggs at my gate?
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no.... only if you sell to a shop , cafe etc... you can only sell to the end user, ie the buyer at your gate, its their problem not yours if they run a cafe etc.
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thanks Harry, what if one of said end users complains I gave them food poisoning? my hens have all been vaccinated and as it happens recently tested for salmonella etc. but do you insure against such occurences?
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anybody could claim that about a lot of food, it would be there job to prove everything you would have to proof nothing, it would almost be impossible for them to prove anything unless they paid to have you eggs tested, they would also have to prove that the eggs in question came from you, how would they do that, they would also have to prove they had good hygiene/ cooking habits etc. Keep good hygiene what could go wrong, i dont even wash my eggs if muddy this time of year as that can cause problems, leave them dirty, thats what free range eggs are. i would guess its buyer beware, if you buy from a private individual you have almost no rights, not like buying from a shop.
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I only sell the freshest on and keep the older ones for ourselves. With duck eggs in theory you have to tell people that they have to cook them through because they might contain germs (different shell from hens' eggs). I always write on the box when they were laid. you've vaccinated your hens against salmonella? Does everybody else do that? Never occurred to me as long as I keep their place clean...:&>
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Thanks, mine are ex-bats and I think that's why they were vaccinated.. well so I was told they were.. I'm trying to find out about vaccinating hens.. does anyone on here bother? no replies to my question re this.
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My exbats are all vaccinated but only because they were done already. my other hens are not vaccinated. I have read somewhere that you are not supposed to wash the eggs but I do give mine a wipe over if they are very muddy. My eggs sell within 48 hours of being laid, I always write the date they were laid on onto the box. :)
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thanks Juliag, I don't wash mine either but largely cause I can't be arsed.. good to know theres a sound reason for my laziness ;D
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I only wash most of the duck eggs, as they are messy birds. If you are concerned about grading I think washing hens' eggs puts them one down...(Paul will know) :&>
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If you have a sign advertising your eggs you can't put free range eggs on it, even if they are.
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you can imply that they are free range. but to call them freerange you would need approval. get approved as a production unit and while your at it get a packing number.
if you wash the eggs they then become class 2. which you can't sell for human consumption. which is a shame ut they are the rules.
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If you have less than 50 birds then you can sell at the gate with no restrictions!
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i only currently have 16 so that's good news.. thanks
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I have been selling eggs at the gate for years - just leave an honesty box by the box of eggs. Had a few eggs or the money go missing, but on the whole people are very honest.
I have probably 60 layers including ex batts. Ex batts are vaccinated, others may be, but I certainly did not have them done.
As I see it, you can sell at the gate, but not to shops, or at a boot sale or farmers market. For this you would have to be DEFRA registered, and have a packing station, with grading etc.
You are only meant to use an egg box once. But its ok for people to bring their egg box to you as many times as they wish it seems. But my egg boxes are re used and people bring them back. They have all said they cannot see the point in wasting good boxes and they are right.
At this time of year, I do wipe the eggs over to get the worst of the mud off. My hens are free range, and do transfer mud to the eggs. I think some people may be put off if they saw a really mud egg, and would fear it was not fit to eat, which it is of course. I keep the really muddy ones for us!!
The egg box itself, must have on the front, your name and address, a note to tell the customer to keep refrigerated (but you don't put them in the fridge at your end, which may seem strange, when you consider you are telling the customer to do it!_) and either a date when the eggs were laid, or a best before date. I put a best before date, and usually its three weeks from the day the eggs were laid. I am pretty certain a proper free range egg can go nearly 4 weeks and be ok. Anyway, whats laid here today will be sold by tomorrow, so they are fresh enough I think.
Do not bother with different sizes, just sell mixed boxes for a set amount. Mine are £2 per dozen, but i could get more if I put the price up.
As to giving people food poisoning, I have only once had one lady complain that an egg was "off". Cannot see it was, but customer is always right, and she happily went away with 6 free eggs. The likelyhood of you selling a dodgy egg is remote......we cannot see inside an egg, and yes, things do go wrong, but cannot see you can be negligent as the poisoning could be caused by the customers cooking or something. I would not worry about it.
I am doing well with my egg sales, and people come back week after week. Just have a problem in winter, when they cannot understand the hens stop laying!!
As to having signs saying free range. My sign says they are. I cannot say organic though, because of the fact their feed cannot be traced to an organic farm.
I know people get round this by saying fresh farm eggs, although some are defintely not free range as I have seen how they are kept. And that is wrong to say they are free range in these circumstances.+++++
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thanks Roxy very helpful :)
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Forgot to say .....
You are not supposed to put the eggs in the egg box until the customer asks for his eggs, is it something to do with contamination from the box maybe? Anyway, can prove a bit difficult when you leave them at the gate for people to pick up themselves. Seems ok for the supermarkets to have them in boxes - you don't ask for your eggs and them box them up, do you?!!!
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i think most of this applies if you are registered in some way , as a private seller surely you cannot recommend storage and cooking to the buyer as this could cause problems, ie (say nothing then you cant be wrong) Even a wipe over to clean is dangerous you should not do that, i think its got to be COLD water as this stops the muck penitrating the membrane, not sure if its COLD or HOT, someone may know. I thought eggs should not be refridgerated, dont recomemd that either, supermakets /shops dont. Say nothing then you advice cannot come back on you, just take the cash and say thank you.
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on the label it has to say keep refrigerated. but has harry says that only applies once your registered.
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You need to wash them in warm water so the egg expands and pushes any contamination out...
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err not for eating you don't wash them.
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Really? I'll make note of that. Any idea why?
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cos it pushes the dirt, s**t though the membrane into the egg
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i now googled HOW TO WASH EGGS, some say hot water and BLEACH, some say cold water and BLEACH, someones wrong.....
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'speeches that changed the world'!!!!
really it was great to read ;) :chook:
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Bleach? I think I will give that a miss, although looking at the mud on some of our eggs, perhaps bleach would be what they need.
I do have a feeling, looking at the amount of people round here with eggs for sale signs outside their house, that the day will come where selling from the gate/house will be stopped. Some health and safety rule will appear, or the bigger egg producers will say its not fair that they have to be registered etc. etc.
To be honest, I do wonder about our local shop and butcher, as in the height of summer I do sell a lot of eggs, and some of these people have said they used to go to the shop or the butchers, but our eggs are better. I do feel a bit guilty taking their business, but there again, I am not a business, just doing it to pay for my hen feed!!
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if they will have a problem it will be with the storage before sale that they will be bothered with. have you though about selling to the shop or butcher that way you make money they make money and the customers get better quality eggs. we sell to the shop at £1.20 and they sell at £1.70. ten pence more than we were getting in the markets without the cost of a table or the time.
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I sell to teachers at all the schools my partner teaches at. They pay £1.50 for 6. I sell in plain boxes and they get a mixture of sizes. I hadn't realised i had to put something on the box i thought it was the opposite that you couldn't put any details on the box if your not registered. The teachers say they miss my eggs during the holidays as they can't get such bright orange yolks from shop bought ones, i even have one who likes one of the eggs in each box to be small so her husband can fit 2 into 1 poached egg! I always give her the double yolkers when i get them. I think one of the joys of selling to people you know is the feedback you get. I tell my customers that i dont wash the eggs as it may encourage bacteria and that if they wish they should wash them in hot water just before they use them.
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you don't need to put anything on the box if not registered but the useby date
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I had a trading standards visit last year, he told me if I have less than 50 birds I can sell at the gate, in or out of boxes and never mentioned whether I could say free range. I wouldnt wash them though, when they are laid they have a membrane on the outside to protect them, wash it off and they can become contaminated, over 50 birds you have to register with defra on the poultry register and the rules change! so for 16 birds I';d sell at the gate however you like until someone tells you you cant! :chook:
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cheers all, just have to break it to my friend at the top of the hill that i'm going to be selling mine too. She has about 35 hens and has sold in the village for ages, she'll be fine though i'm sure .
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I had a trading standards visit last year, he told me if I have less than 50 birds I can sell at the gate, in or out of boxes and never mentioned whether I could say free range. I wouldnt wash them though, when they are laid they have a membrane on the outside to protect them, wash it off and they can become contaminated, over 50 birds you have to register with defra on the poultry register and the rules change! so for 16 birds I';d sell at the gate however you like until someone tells you you cant! :chook:
your mistaking the defra register with the egg rules the defra bit is just animal health related brought out when there was the concern about bird flu. there are specifications on what is classed as free range and once you start classifying then you do need to get registered. but really it very simple to become registed. apart from the two visits one to check the production and the other to check the packing side all you need is a candler (light in box) a set of digital scales and a cool ordor animal free storage unit. sideboard in our case. and once you get approved you need a stamp.
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Ok thanks, but as far as I understand it, less than 50 birds then there are no rules, I only sell to friends as our road is too busy and fast for folk to stop, otherwise I would.
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a bit of light reading
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Doc/90927/0021840.pdf (http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Doc/90927/0021840.pdf)
its scottish but it will be the same. if you use the term free range you fall within the rules even if you have2 chickens.
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thanks Paul will have a read. It's not really worth me registering yet so will stay away from washing eggs and saying free range for now. Cheers Helen
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Does anyone know where you can buy the equipment for going legit??
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what do you mean. you need to candle the eggs for air space gives a very good idea how old the egg is. it also shows cracks that you would miss by just looking. you may see blood spots but our eggs are pretty dark so hard to see. you need a digital set of scales. you need a odour/vermin free storage unit a cupboard will do. once you have been aproved you will get your number which you then get a stamp made up. you need food grade ink for the stamping. when you speak to the animal health people they will give you a pile of paper work this will guide you through what you must do. get someone who has a design skill to make up some labels. it really is easy we have done it sio it must be. you also need to record the number of eggs coming in and going out with the number of rejects.
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I got the paperwork in today, bloody hell, it looks a nightmare!!!
Ratio of hens to boxes, depth of litter, space per hen, the list goes on........
If i sell my eggs, it could bring in over £1000 per year. Is it worth it? Who sells the candle, weigh scales etc??
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get or make a wooden boxs and fit a light inside. you can buy them from places like ascot ect. but as i said im tight. normal kitchen scales are fine weight the empty box zero and the weigh each six then you can decide on your minimum weight. dont worry too much about the depth of litter if they free range just insure its clean before the i nspection. knock up some boxs with ply much cheaper than buying. 1-2k is very easily achieved but your not going to make a fortune
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Is there an age limit for the hens?
I know that commercial units get rid of their hens at 72 weeks old. I was wondering if this is a legal requirement when selling class A eggs.
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no. the age of the hen does matter to you thou. the older then hen the larger and thinner the shell that why they cull them off. plan to cull every two years/ 2 1/2 and you should be ok. anything longer and your running a retirement home. grade a is purely down to the quality of the egg.
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Just been reading on DEFRA about the flocks needing to be vaccinated and tested for salmonella. You also have to get the local council give you a food processing hygeine certificate(not sure if this is the correct term). If you want to sell your eggs as Class A to a shop.
I sell mine at the farmgate and would like to be a registered producer, packing station and seller of Class A eggs. But it all does seem a tad long winded.
DJ Chook
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you would need to get approved as a producer and packing unit once you have the packing number you can sell to shops/schools or anyone.. the vacination is upto you. ive not heard of it as a requirement. if your just selling at the farm gate then don't bother. but it really is easy.
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I think I will stick to my farm gate selling .....I already have enough paperwork etc. just for the goats, sheep, and cows, without starting with eggs paperwork too.
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Me too be happy to sell at the gate as well as to family and friends.
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I complied with all the legal gumf they sent, applied for an inspection and they just sent me a packing station number and producer number through the post. Never even came near, I could have been running a battery shed for all they know....... I should have applied for organic ::). It is worth doing though and it is free, I still sell at the gate but have more options opened up to me now.As they said on the phone rules will change in the future and everyone selling eggs will have to apply, best to get a head start. Hermit
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thats because the egg guy only comes up once every two years. you should have been seen by the animal health person at SIC. you would have sailed through it anyway. are you sticking with the farmers market and gate sales.
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I was told there was now a very nice lady officer in Lerwick! must have misheard. Yes I am still doing the Farmers Markets, as my OH runs the local one with a friend I have no excuse.Gate sales are doing well at the moment, must be the weather.
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patty dinsdale really friendly. she is the council health person. she can ok you as a production unit. the guy is ment to do the packing unit. but it does not matter you have it so no worries.
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I'm going to be brave and apply as a producer and packing unit! Ive filled in the form to be registered as a food producer with the local council!
I've only to buy a candler, stamp and scales. Probably cost about £150.
It's the inspections I hate, with all their ratios!
Watch this space!
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don't worry they are only there to help. the egg guy was getting worked up because nobody was supplying the info that you get on the inside of a commerical egg box. shame that there is no easy way of doing it.
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I got my codes through yesterday, so now I can legally sell my eggs to shops now!
Inspection to follow later this year!
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As a registered packing station, does that mean you can process eggs from other registered producers?
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yes if they are a registered producer. your paperwork becomes a bit more complicated.
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Well done, Leigh
I registered as afood producer last year when I set up the business proper. But I only sell eggs direct to folk so I was inspected last week by the EHO. She said we were fine and that we'd get a questionnaire in three years or so.