The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Poultry & Waterfowl => Topic started by: Dave C on May 17, 2015, 08:38:02 pm
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If so what are you doing ?
Bought in Broilers, Pure breeds or your own crosses ?
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Copper Marans, Rhode red and Australorp here. Got some Silver laced Wyandottes and a few other bits and bobs too. 1 LS I think and a few Welsummer which I usually find to be hopeless but I think that's just my strain.
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the cockerel chicks and turkeys, if we could find some broiler chicks we would get some but don't know a local supplier.
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Ixworth X Dorking, and this year also their next generation. Might cross them with an Indian game as would like more breast meat.
Have some big Marans in with Cream Legbars for the dark green eggs so will have their cockerels too. No point in wasting them ;)
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In am planning on making some bird tables if that helps :roflanim: :roflanim: :roflanim:
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what breeds? verdifish.
we only have pure scots greys. would like to try meat chicks and dispatch with 12 weeks. failing that we will stick to turkey hybrids.
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I'm doing quite a few this year, namely, La Bresse, La Bresse X IG, IG (dark and Jubilee), Brahma X IG as well as Muscovies. The aim is to bring them on French style, I.e. Long and slow with high protein ration at the end.
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Interesting. What sort of high protein feed do you give them at the end and for how long?
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Think about this Possom.
The bird intended to be a table bird has to have the inherited genetic make-up to put on meat, not fat.
You can give it protein, but after it has used what it needs to exist the rest gets put into store as fat, usually over the rump to be used when needed.
Find a breed or cross that has the capabilities of building a frame and furnishing it with flesh and matures at a reasonably fast time.
There used to be strains of breeds that did this, but sadly most have been lost to bad breeding practice.
Half, if not more of your roast is in the breeding and not in the feed.
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Possum, the French use cereals soaked in butter milk but milk replacer from lambing would do. I'm in total agreement with Castlefarm regarding the breed and the breeding. The French employ this method 2-4 weeks prior to slaughter because they literally want to "fatten up" the birds as the marbling creates a different dimension to the flavour of the meat. I have chosen these breeds as they gain muscle naturally from just cereals and what they can forage. The X's are an experiment to see if I can create something superior to what I already have. For slow growing, I've never had to give my muscovys anything more than cereal.
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This is really useful, particularly since I have some lamlac left over and was wondering what to do with it! Thanks to both of you for the detailed replies.
I only raise table birds for our own use and so I'm afraid that, so far, they have had the same food as the layers. Ad lib layers pellets plus free range in an orchard. In fairness, the results have been reasonable. The flavour has been excellent but the birds have been small compared to the ones that we used to buy in the shops. I will try to be more scientific this year. :)
What sort of grain do you use? We always have rolled barley for the geese. Will that work for the chickens?
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All my birds are fed the same. Wheat..Rolled Barley and Cut maize. With added Cod.liver oil and fish meal. Free range when not in breeding pens.
You really need Indian Game in the genetic make-up to put on the meat.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Utility-Poultry-Keepers/231571570247281?ref (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Utility-Poultry-Keepers/231571570247281?ref)
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I have La Bresse. I won't bother with them again as the cockerels are agressive rapists and I won't finish in cages. The flavour is exceptional but the shape is not what one expects: big legs and narrow breast but still plenty of meat.
I've had Hubbards previously, which were lovely birds, fast growing but tasty. I kept them on rather longer than the suggested 14 weeks and they remained tender and delicious. They are eating machines though!
I've eaten various spare cockerels over the years with mixed success. Some are surprisingly rank and a young age!
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My La Bresse Cock bird is a big Gentleman although fertility is not good at the min so he may be getting the chop. my hens are very large as well and excellent layer of massive eggs.
My plan is to cross them with Dark IG next year of which i have just had a very good hatch (thanks Castle Farm) :thumbsup:
My hope is for a bit more meat from the IG and a quick finish and from the La Bresse and maybe keep a few hens back for a 3/4 cross the following year.
What do you think ?
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Hi Hev, sorry to hear about your experience with La Bresse. i guess you must have a strain that behaves like that. I've got quite a few of them and they are normally pretty docile. If you are looking for an ambundance of breast meat then you can be a little disappointed with LB. You've got to remember that the double breasted feature of the modern meat bird is a fairly recent phenomenon. LB is a breed that has been around for some 500 years and in the past leg meat was preferred over the breast.
Dave, so far my LB X Jubilee are coming on well. Pure white and look more or lees just like IG at this age, about 4 weeks. I'll be trying a LB cock with a dark IG hen next to see if there is much difference. I guess you could try Castle Farm's approach with the LB and IG by having an improved IG with LB and try crossing LB with IG till it breeds true? His birds look pretty good.
Possum, sorry for my late reply. I would use a mixture, if you can. Crushed barley will absorb the milk better also whole wheat. Maize a good thing too but much dearer.
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I'm not worried by the lack of breast meat, but if anyone thinking of raising them is expecting an average shaped table bird, they look far too narrow. The flavour more than makes up for it though!
I got two strains, with the idea of breeding them, but they really don't have the character to pass on to another generation, so I've now killed all the cockerels and am left with one lovely hen, who is indeed laying lots of lovely pale cream eggs. I may be tempted hatch a few: they'll either be pure LB or LBxMarans so either should be quite meaty.
Years ago, I got Old Eglish Pheasant Fowl, having researched about them as being very good dual utility birds. Sadly, they are now a rare breed. I suspect they have been bred too often for show, like a lot of birds, as I found them to be rather smaller than standards suggested and indifferent layers.
I think if I was to try another pure breed, it'd be dorking or possibly ixworth.
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Thanks RBF. I will mix the wheat,barley and lamlac and see what happens. :)
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Well the taste test has experienced some technical difficulties
I have only managed to hatch 3 La Bresse
I think they are 2 pullets and a cock bird so not the end of the world but they will be kept for next years breeding and if upto standard the cockerel will replace my current old boy.
The White Farm rangers are a good old size and should be ready in about 3 weeks and the Poulet Galouise also very large should be a week or so behind them, there is only 1 hen who is much finer boned and light in her feet, I'm going to see if I can keep her for breeding next year just for a bit of fun.
The broody rearing my Indian Game killed 2 of the 11 chicks but things seem to have settled down now so will see how they turn out but don't think I will be eating any of them this year.
How your table birds doing ?
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The white farm rangers dressed out at 2.5 Kg
We'll a little behind time the Poulet Galouise are supposed to be processed at 11 weeks is recommended but they would be 14 weeks on Wednesday and I only got round to processing today.
They all dressed out between 3.2 - 3.5 kg
So a little bigger than I thought but one will be for dinner tomorrow & the rest in the freezer.
But I'm more than happy with that weight :thumbsup:
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Well done Dave! Those are good weights! Do you know how much they have roughly cost you to produce? I'll be very interested to see what they taste like.
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Very very tasty birds :thumbsup:
I couldnt be happier with them massive amounts of breat meat, nice dark leggs lovely firm meat with loads of flavour.
I reckon they cost me about £4.50 ish each, but you could easily get 3 meals out of them and there is 5 of us living in my house.
i ve kept the hens back to try and breed from next year, they are starting to lay now (16/17 weeks old)
they are free ranging very well
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Hi all,
How's everyone getting on with there table birds ?
What were your successes !
What were your disappointments ?
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I'll hopefully be processing some of mine this week or next so will let you know once I've done it.
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Hi guys,
sorry to hijack thread...but...im quite interested in having a go at my own table birds.
Can the 'table' hens be kept alongside my 'egg' hens and fed same diet (layer pellets and mixed corn)?
I guess the biggest issue i face is how to dispatch and prepare them - is there a preferred method?
Which breed would be best for me?
Cheers.
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Hi ricardodba your not hijacking at all, that's what this thread is for :thumbsup:
I think it depends what you want from your table birds.
Are you looking to bring in eggs/chicks, rear, fatten then process all in one batch ?
Or are you looking for a more sustainable flock where the hens are kept as layers and the cockerels fattened for the table ?
This will then shorten your list of breeds.
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Hi,
I already have 5 laying hens, which i will add to next spring. 1 of the hens is a light sussex, which i understand is a dual purpose...but im thinking, ideally they really arnt big enough as table birds. Im thinking of also adding a cock to this flock to see if can rear some chicks...just not decided which breed...more than likely a light sussex as i think they are a good looking bird and will cross well with my white stars as well as my light sussex hen....i guess any cock chicks i can fatten up and can be used for table as well???
BUT, my initial plan is/was to try a couple of proper 'table' birds and they will be let to roam in a different area...im thinking the same area as the pigs, with a coop in the pig area (when i get some weaners in the spring) and see how i go with these. So they will be separate from my 'egg' hens.
If it goes well then maybe i will introduce a 'table' cock or introduce my light sussex cock to the table birds...what you think?
Its all plans at the minute nothing decided :farmer: :thumbsup:
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Problem is that there are so many strains of all breeds. Some of my pure light sussex are huge. Some I bought from a 'breeder' are tiny, skinny egg machines. So it varies. White stars are usually leghorn based so not a good start for a meat bird. For a cockerel, if you don't want to create laying hens, go for something like an Indian Game. Crossed with your sussex, may produce a decent table bird.
I've got 8 Ixworth Hens and next year I think I'm going to find a decent Indian Game boy to put with them for my roasters. All other cockerels we tend to take to 18 weeks, kill and take off breast and legs/thighs as it's so much quicker than a full process with the equipment I have.
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As stereo said an Indian Game cockerel would produce nice table birds over your LS hen.
Alternatively you could buy in some hybrid table birds, if you look about you can find some healthy free ranging types with good movement.
I have kept a healthy active hybrid back this year to try to breed from in the spring.
But we will see :thinking:
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Is or has any body done hybrid table birds this Time of the year ?
I tried finishing some Ixworths off a few years ago but couldn't get any weight on them due to the short daylight hours.
Just wondered if Hybrids were easier due to there greedy nature !
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I tried finishing some Ixworths off a few years ago but couldn't get any weight on them due to the short daylight hours.
Why do daylight hours influence growth? Don't they just eat pretty much the same but don't work it off running around as they spend more time asleep? Or eat less but take longer to grow?
Same here about the different strains and even within the strains surprises happen - we had a maran x cream legbar who weighed more at 5 months than his pure maran dad did as an adult.
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I'm doing quite a few this year, namely, La Bresse, La Bresse X IG, IG (dark and Jubilee), Brahma X IG as well as Muscovies. The aim is to bring them on French style, I.e. Long and slow with high protein ration at the end.
HI THERE IM INTERESTED TO KNOW MORE ON THE MUSCOVY FRONT, ITS SOMETHING THAT I WILL BE LOOKING AT DOING THIS YEAR BUT I AM A TOTAL NOVICE
THANKS
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Hopefully am gonna start breeding the faverolles the beginning of next year, so I hope to be killing some out end of the year then. Hopefully :-\
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HI THERE IM INTERESTED TO KNOW MORE ON THE MUSCOVY FRONT, ITS SOMETHING THAT I WILL BE LOOKING AT DOING THIS YEAR BUT I AM A TOTAL NOVICE
THANKS
Once you eat Muscovy (Barbary) you won't want any other duck. The breast meat is like roast beef but they need to be cooked differently as they have 50% less fat. Commercial strains can be brought on for 12 weeks but I'm experimenting with the strain I have. In the past I've done them at 6 months and obtained a 6lb carcass. No special ration just a bit of wheat and barely. I'm hoping my strain with yield a good enough carcass at 3 months.
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would you bring on mainly drakes for meat or both
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It depends on the strain that you have. I've got some chunky females so I'm going to use their female progeny. The female is about 50- 60% of the size of the male but I've been told that they mature a bit quicker. If the females are going spare I'd say use them, if you can't sell them. Consider too that ducks are a pain to process so you want a decent enough return for the hassle.
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Thanks RPF
Maybe when you start them next year you could add a thread for me to follow
Thanks
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A female hatched out 16 at the beginning of August so I'll put a little thread and some photos up. Hopefully these will be ready in another 4-6 weeks but I'll have to see as I've not experimented with this strain.
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I tried finishing some Ixworths off a few years ago but couldn't get any weight on them due to the short daylight hours.
Why do daylight hours influence growth? Don't they just eat pretty much the same but don't work it off running around as they spend more time asleep? Or eat less but take longer to grow?
Hi Eve, it could have just been the breed or that strain but they were all frame and no meat.
I may be wrong but i think that if they are roosting for 16 hours each night how can they put on any real weight.
If they were finished under lights and in a stable sized area the birds have to be much meatier.
Or am i wrong ?
Dave