The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: chickens on May 20, 2008, 12:49:47 pm
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Hi
I am really hoping you will be able to help me - tomorrow for the first time we have someone coming to slaughter two of our pigs (they have always been together so evidently have to go together) he is a french man and has assured me that his method of killing them is the quickest and best way - that is by sticking a knife in its throat - I said I wanted them shot/stunned as I did not want my pigs to suffer but he said it would be worse as they apparantly shake and it is more frightening for them. Please can someone tell me as I really do not want them to suffer - I am dreading it but at the same time looking forward to the bacon.
It will be something I never repeat as in future they will go to the abattoir.
Many thanks
Nicki
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No matter what he says,insist on them being shot/stunned first. They might shake a little,but that's nothing to the 2-3minutes of abject terror they'll go through,being hung upside down and having their throats slit whilst being awake. I've seen it first hand with humans as well as pigs,and believe me,shooting/stunning is much more humane. If he refuses to stun,them don't use him. I have a number of a guy called Jackie,but I don't know where you are........ Ree
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Please don't do it - cancel him and go to the abatoire. Pigs are intelligent kind feeling animals. It would be like passing your dog to your 'chap', you just wouldn't do it. By the fact that you are posting you are obviously concerned, so follow your own instinct and make alternative arrangements.
As Ree says, stun or gun to the head - it is quick and if you have trained them to the bucket, this can be done when their head is down and they know nothing of what is going on. We have had all of our pigs done at home so far, and our pigs have walked down with us quite normally and happily following a bucket of food, and never knew what had happened. It is true that they do jerk afterwards but it is just muscle movement nothing more.
Now we have our SIRET number here in France, and can now sell our meat, we are going to have to take ours the abatoire root which I am not looking forward to. We are going to visit the one nearest to us to see what it is like and whether it is suitable for 'our' pigs.
Make the call now, and organise something else for them. You will enjoy your meat much more knowing that they were as happy at 'the end' as when they were living with you running and rooting around.
Kate :pig: :(
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Trust your instinct.
We shoot our chickens before we bleed then and yes, there's lots of flapping but it's muscle / nerve reaction - they are well dead. I couldn't bleed an animal to death while it was conscious.
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Believe me if you do it this will haunt you for the rest of your life. Not exagerating. Still wake up hearing the pigs screaming when my neighbour in UK did this 20 years ago. I dont consider myself sensitive. Imagine their terror at being hung up by a back leg before having their throats cut. Dying takes several minutes. Its inhuman and should be illegal.
Apologies for and no offence meant.
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Thank you everyone for your replies; I rang the french man and told him before reading them, that I wanted them shot/stunned first as in the end I went by my gut instinct. We love our animals and cannot bear to think of them suffering even so I am still dreading tomorrow. Next time it will be the abbattoir as I know from experience with our sheep that the animals do not suffer at all and it is quick.
Thank you very much again.
Mr Ree maybe you are near me I have the name of someone called Jackie as well in department 53?
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I'm in dept 50 between Mortain,Sourdeval and Brecy,10km in any direction.So quite near to you if you're in the north of 53,his name is Jacky Mancel. He advertises around the place,and after talking to a few people that have used him,have decided that he's worth a try once. Let me know if you would like his number...... Ree
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I dont understand why anyone would go for a home kill
to use the abbatoir at St Hiliare you dont need a siret only an elevage number
by registering as an elevage you pay around 20€ & year- plus it is cheaper to send pigs to the abbatoir then arrange for a home visit!!
it isnt just the killing -pigshave to be scraped of theirair , plus the gutting hanging and then later butchering
a home kill can also mean you assisting :(
the abbatoir route is the only option for us
drop off one day & collect 2/3 days later when the deed has been done
We have been very impressed with the service at st Hiliare
It is not a large commertial abbatoir so the animals arent crammed into pens by the thousand to await their fate
We always take our pigs early so they are the first to be 'done' the next day
When we collect we even find out the time of killing usually less than a minute between the pigs
I think you owe it to the animals to give them respect right to the end - so stunning it HAS to be
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Thank you Nellie for your thoughts. We do know how good the abbattoir at St Hilaire is but: we have never cut up a carcass before (if they do it at st hilaire it is 1.50 to 2.€ per kilo thus not cheaper than having the pigs killed at home. We also have no way of getting these pigs their although we are looking for a decent animal transporter which obviously can't be too dear.
This time my other half is going to watch very carefully to learn how to cut the carcass so that next time we can go to the abbattoir and just have them killed as I understand that it is only around 30€ for them just to be killed - perhaps you could confirm that?
It is costing 90€ per pig as they both have to be done together but then he said he was making the boudin and the sausages and as we don't want either as we will make all our own I am hoping to get his price down a bit but if not I will just have to put it down to experience.
He is definitely going to stun them as I phoned him last night if he turns up with an excuse for that then I will send him away.
He will be here in an hour and a half and I am dreading it.
I just do not want them to suffer.
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Hi Chickens, am thinking of you as it must be about now. Hope all has gone well. HM
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Hi
Thanks but it has not happened! The guy turned up and the tractor man had let him down as apparantly it is going to rain tomorrow and so all the tractors are out working - anyway we thought we could work round it but then he announced he needed a tap near where he was going to hang them as he did not have the tractor. Well of course we haven't got one that close - he started to get a bit stroppy and I told him it was his fault as when he first came to explain everything he did not mention needing a tap he just checked that we had electricity.
So he is supposed to come back tomorrow with a tractor - we are so stressed out and fed up - and right at the end he announced that even though he shot them he did not shoot them until they were on the tractor - tied up!!!! So now he has gone off to organise a tractor I am having kittens because I wanted them shot before anything was done otherwise poor things will be petrified on the tractor - ugggh it does not bear thinking about. I am going to ring the abbattoir but I cannot afford to wait 3 weeks as they are costing us so much food wise at the moment and we do not have a trailer nor the cutting equipment. Talk about being stuck!!! Anyway I will ring the abbattoir hoping they can do it quickly, see if I can borrow a trailor and take it from there; As for cutting well we will just have to learn quickly...
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Chickens, I am so sorry this is turning into a nightmare for you, you are right, they will be very stressed being hung from a tractor.Have you contacted Mr Ree for his contact person, maybe they are able to help quicker than the abbatoir.
Also maybe mail Katie(pigsatlesrues) she may be of help, she has always been supportive of my crisis in the past. Sadly I am in Brittany so unable to offer anything else really.
Please keep us updated as we are all I am sure thinking of you and your pigs
Carole
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For ease,because I'm off out again........ Jackie's number 06.98.99.18.94 I apologise in advance for posting his number,but he does advertise on posters in shops and circumstances are a little strained.
My advice would be to cancel the guy you have booked for coming tomorrow. I can't for the life of me work out why he would want to try and shoot a wriggly,stressed out,moving target instead of a happily eating,head down pig. The guy is a nut!! If indeed this turns out to be the same Jackie,please let me know because there is not a snowflakes chance in my pants that I'm going to use him!
Gawd,now I'm stressed out too....... time for a bottle opening me thinks ;D
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hi chickens
sadly the majority of french farmers see livestock as 'beasts' and dont see the importance of animal welfare
there is a particularily unplease chap who on taking his pigs to the abbatior 'encourages them' to go through the door by beating them with a stick!
we lead our slowly in with a bucket of food - will a little persuasion- it doas matter if it takes 5 mins or 20 we dont want to cause our animals any undue stress
If you ring the abbatoir the young lady there is very helpful
there are also some abbatior that dont need a elevage number- perhaps its worth asking on some of the other 'french' forums
Bonne Chance!
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I would just like to echo the thoughts of many on this thread that you are better trying to arrange to take your pigs to an abbatoir. If I was closer I would be only to happy to help as I was a butcher for many years .if you need any help or support when cutting if you either post on here or send me a pm I will do what I can to talk you through.
Andrew
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Thank you all ever so much.
I have cancelled the man - no Mr Ree it is not the same one fortunately - we too opened a bottle - Santé
They are going to the abbattoir tomorrow and a friend is lending us her trailor but we have to now find someone to help us butcher them so am frantically looking around for someone.
Husband very stressed now .....
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http://www.btinternet.com/~happydudevir/butchering.html
http://members.shaw.ca/masterbutcher/meat_cutting_tutorial/basic_cuts.html
Hello Chickens,
the above links should be of some use to you ( I hope anyway!!). Glad you got it sorted in the end ,what a horrible time you must have had. Still onwards and upwards as they say ...good luck with the butchery. Hope the links help a bit .......
cheers
Russ
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Want me to post down the Pig in a Day dvd? Or I can take it to the Epona Open Day thingy at the weekend if you're going? I've got some good knives here and a big chopper,only lacking a hacksaw if that helps.
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Thank you ever so much everyone you are all so very kind. The two sites look great and very clear but also please could you send me down the dvd Mr Ree as that would be great and if you don't mind could we borrow your knives etc as we don't think ours are up to it. We are coming up to St Hilaire tomorrow and on Saturday if that is possible.
We feel very relieved now that they are going to have a better ending - thank you all for all your support. :)
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Me again - whats the epona open day thing at the weekend please?
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Chickens,
Look on Market Place, its a charity day- pigsatlesrues is promoting it.
If you can make it will see you there
Carole
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Thanks Carole will try to go - funnily enough I found it just after I posted
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Just to let you know that we took the pigs to the abattoir yesterday, it was easy and stress free for them and for us. We are now looking forward to some bacon.
Thanks again
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Good Job! You will enjoy it all the more now.
Kate :pig:
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Hi Chickens
so pleased that you went to the abbatoir
It is a fallacy that a home kill is less stressful for the animals
I Know of home kills were things have gone horribly wrong - its best to leave these things to the professionals!
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:pig: :pig: :pig: and it will be the best bacon you have ever tasted....
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Hope so. Went out and bought everything I thought I needed to make up cures - been studying furiously Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall - the river cottage cookbook and the meat book, looking at recipes on pigs in france site and on here and from a friend who (luckily for me is a mind full of information) - just hope I have brought enough of everything!!
Wanted to try the cider cure but Hugh states you have to use 4 litres of pressed apple juice and I think that will make it too expensive.
I bought 10 kilos of coarse salt, 1.5 kilos of molasses, cane sugar, semi-coarse pepper, juniper berries, chives, garlic, onions, red onions, nutmeg, parsley, I couldnt get dry mustard or mace. And the trouble is I don't know how much meat I am going to get back we have tried to work it out and think around 180 kilos but I have no idea what to expect from that!
This is one huge rapid learning curve - hopefully I will get there. I just wanted to make a load of bacon for the kids as they miss that, some gammon steaks, chops, roast pork, pork pies and sausages.
Once again thank you all for your advice and help.
:pig:
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hi chickens
the cider cure works fine with ordinary apple juice - and is definitely worth doing - delicious :D
We do a brine cure bacon - its fantastic- see www.pigsinfrance.com there is a recipe listed there that is very easy
if you find you have too much meat to deal with freeze in 1/2 kilo quantities to process later
for example I mince fatty pork with all the offal as a base for faggots or pate- freeze it and then use it when I have the time
can also recommend salamis- very easy & very tasty a la Hugh F W
If you are feeling very brave pate à la tete is very goog- ooh I'm feeling hubgry again ;D
Have fun :pig: