The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: Fleecewife on April 03, 2015, 06:12:47 pm
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This is not a rant, but I'm genuinely looking for opinions about the amount of litter in Britain, and whether there are any ways to deal with it.
It may be different in different areas, but hereabouts the amount of litter, great and small, tossed onto the verges and into fields looks just awful, and may be a danger to livestock (such as plastic bags) or wildlife (such as those plastic things which keep sixpacks together).
I might sound like a right old timer when I say that 'it didn't used to be like this', but really it didn't. I don't remember when I became aware that people were dropping their litter, but now it's most of what I see when I'm out and about.
We keep our own fields and verges litter free, but no-one else seems to make any effort at all.
I see 'white van man' tossing newspapers, food wrappers and drink cans out of their windows as they drive past. Neds doing their evening hare around the countryside toss beer cans and bottles, and take-away cartons out. People who can't be bothered to arrange for uplift of old mattresses take a trip out into the countryside to dump them in a field. Parents with babies stop in laybys to change nappies and toss the used ones by the side of the road. There's worse, of course, with toilet paper left under hedges. After a high wind rubbish has flown everywhere, with plastic bags hanging in torn strips from trees and bushes, and larger debris strewn about. All in all the countryside looks like a dump.
There are occasional litter picking initiatives, and charity litter collections, even the occasional council worker seen out collecting rubbish, and all these people put their own lives at risk to do this work right on the edges of main roads.
Whatever can we do to alert people to how horrible it is, and get people to take their litter home and dispose of it properly?
The situation is so bad that a new geological era is thought to be under way, with strata made up of all the effluent, especially plastics, of our society. I can't remember what it's being called - the anthropoid, or the anthropogenic era?? Ah no, Mr F has just reminded me it's the Anthropocene.
So what ideas can you think of which would possibly make a difference? Initiatives at individual or local community level? Charities? Government? Educational advertising? Teaching in schools?
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I'm don't have any bright ideas, but agree that it is a huge problem. My children are constantly picking up litter, and get quite cross when I sometimes won't let them pick up something that looks unsafe, but so many people think it is normal to just drop things.
The other thing that really bugs me is cigarette butts - I know lots of people who wouldn't dream of dropping a crisp packet, but think nothing of tossing a cigarette butt on the ground. Grr.
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I agree - it's one of my pet hates. I think a lot of it comes from cars - looking at where it's located - and a lot of it is as a result of us eating on the go, fast food etc.
I was in Austria years ago and there was no litter but there was no fast food either. Folk went to cafes and coffee shops not stuffing their faces as they walk or drive.
Perhaps it's related to folk's feeling of disempowerment - it's always someone else's job to fix it. maybe tat's the car thing as well.
Amazes me how many folk out enjoying the countryside or at elast walking / cycling on the local cycle path drop litter.
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I think its definitely a male habit. I had always assumed it was young adults but I live about a mile from a BP station with a fast food outlet, most of it comes from there so you have to have a car or a van. Then as I litter pick, none of it is healthy eating, and having served fast food most of it women wouldn't eat and not a diet coke to be seen.
My final evidence was the workman working on my house build. They ate BK everyday, most of the litter ended up on the floor, one would throw his cups in the hedge and I found a sandwich wrap stuffed down a cavity wall, by the electrician complete with an invoice. The last time the brickies came they cleaned out the car and I found five fag packets where they had parked it, they had only been there 3 hours.
So its mainly men, most of them do not seem awful people, most seem fairly intelligent, but for some reason they see litter as someone else's problem and as long as its bagged up and thrown out of a window that's their job done. I want to smack their bottoms, like their mothers should have done.
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it does amaze me how far it travels as well, walking round the any fields and it is astonishing what appears... i can understand paper and light plastics blowing in the wind but cans and glass bottles???
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Round here it is cider cans , energy drink cans , plastic sarnie triangles , plastic drink bottles , then in the woods , car tyres , old tv's and black rubbish bags .
Stuff i find on the road is unbelievable , pliers , hammers , screwdrivers , money ( a £20 note and over time at least another £20 in coins) , even a mobile phone . Walking has benefits lol .
But rubbish is really bad nowdays . Those that chuck it don't give a toss , what to do ? , unless you see the ar*holes chuck it the only thing that can be done is pick it up . There is so much along the road here i couldn't carry it , so there it stays .
Sad very sad .
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Get the people on community service to pick it up.
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We pick up a lot of litter here, much of it around the tourist sights and trail... However, reading your posts, I think perhaps the tens of thousands of people who come to the Roman fort and Wall are perhaps not so bad overall. :thinking:
One time we see a lot of litter is when the bins have been emptied. These tip-up wheelie bins are all very efficient, I am sure, but it's generally windy here and some gets blown off each time a bin is tipped up. ::) I think pretty much everyone does use bin liners (or carrier bags) and tie the handles, but there always seem to be a few loose bits and pieces to blow around.
In terms of how to stop people dropping litter - no doubt it is at least partly education (or lack of it), but is it symptomatic of a lack of pride in one's country, the countryside, oneself and others?
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Huge on the spot fines?
Think this is how Norwegian cities are kept spotless.
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I litter pick the half mile lane between us and the B road twice a year and never collect less than two bin liners' worth. Mostly cans and bottles (including, one year, an unopened 1 litre bottle of Courvoisier brandy!). Some blows off the bin lorry but some has been driven for miles - the nearest KFC is 19 miles away! I always wear disposable gloves and if I find a bag of rubbish go through it in the hope of finding an envelope with an address on it. If I ever did I would happily drive 20 miles to hand it back to the owner and say, "I think you dropped this!"
Maybe education is the key - take the infant school children out on a local litter pick and talk about why people litter and show gory pictures of hedgehogs stuck in 6-pack plastic. Maybe little boys never grow out of expecting Mummy to clean up after them (not on my watch, though!)
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Ah yes - community service - that's a good idea.
I think Sally has hit the nail on the head about a lack of pride in our country. I think that works for Norwegians as well, who I believe are very proud to be Norwegian. However, there needs to be plenty of enforcers available for fines.
Being totally careless of others and the 'it's someone else's job to pick it up' are now endemic in our society, especially the Thatcher era babes onwards. So could part of a solution be within schools? Here, the main school - Biggar High School - lets the pupils out at lunchtime to forage for their own food, and the amount of litter they dump is enormous. The school refuses to be remotely interested, so if they accept it, then the children won't even question it. To alter that requires a major attitude change.
So, how do we, as individuals, influence educational policy, and community service tasks? I'm not a great campaigner, but do we maybe need a campaign, lobbying or petitions, and who to? I feel the need to do something, but I've no idea what. I don't do social media, but would that be a starting point?
Just seen your post Marches Farmer. Oh how I would love to return someone's dumped rubbish to them like that. I ride a motorbike, and sometimes have found lit fag ends tossed out of cars, bouncing towards me. If I have a passenger, then on occasion I've been able to get them to retrieve the offending fag end and drop it back into the car through the open window at the next traffic lights. Oh what a hooligan I've been :eyelashes:, but it creates a wonderful scene and hopefully gets the driver to think more about their actions.
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I am totally against more fines , the policy enforcers should be there to prevent and detect crime , not issue justice via fines (check magna carter) .
Educate people and make less disposable rubbish .
Not into community service either . It was weant to be for minor crimes , now they are talking of the unemployed doing it , and even oap's for their pension . Police state has begun !
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I'm not into community service either Rusty.
Every week in our local paper the courts hand out suspended sentences and fines..(most to be taken at £10 per fortnight from their benefits.) For drunks fighting and people stealing to fund drug habits.
You could save the tax payer millions of pounds by bringing the birch back and laying it on some of these thoughtless morons we have to live with.
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I once was out with the dogs, parked in a council car park and had trouble hauling the dogs out of a mountain of rubbish including a 36 inch tv. I rang the council to report it but my big complaint was that they must have had a van or something to have taken it so why not take it to one of the five recycling centres in the town?
Some of our local schools arrange litter picks so they are doing something to educate the children.
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I think using folk on community payback orders to lift litter is sound.
The worse it gets, the more folk are likely to drop litter - "it's a shithole andyway, so what difference will my litter make".
Maybe someone at roundabouts and sliproads with an air rifle to take out the tyres of those chucking stuff out the car windows?
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I was parked outside our village shop one day (back in E Lothian). Hot day, family in car in front (nice, new SUV) had an ice cream each-car, 4 windows came down, four wrappers thrown out. I picked them up, popped them back through the driver's side saying 'think you've dropped something'. I didn't stop for the barage of abuse I was bound to get!
Its not too bad where we are, there's noone here which helps! what we have is mostly wind driven but we do get the odd bit dropped in a passing place where someone's stopped-which I pick up. We have a lot of cyclists and walkers and am glad to say, doesn't seem to be a problem.
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Maybe someone at roundabouts and sliproads with an air rifle to take out the tyres of those chucking stuff out the car windows?
I think it's just possible that this wouldn't be allowed. Shame.
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[quote author :-J=Rosemary link=topic=58103.msg489538#msg489538 date=1428161694]
Maybe someone at roundabouts and sliproads with an air rifle to take out the tyres of those chucking stuff out the car windows?
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Yeah... :thinking: .. that seems proportionate, lol.
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I returned to the UK last week and was struck by how true a tv report was that the UK is the dirtiest country in Europe.
Not sure of the solution but it is very rare to see people in France eating or drinking on the hoof. It is difficult to buy fast food and yes there are teams of people walking the roads who are not too proud to pick up litter or weed a verge. I suspect that the only solution in the UK is to employ litter pickers and levy fast food shops to pay towards litter collection based on packaging they use to sell grazing food and drink.
In fairness I did see 3 people strolling around kings cross station picking up fag buts and even waiting for a smoker to Finnish his fag. There were no bins or ashtrays !!!!
The little and waste at the side of railways en route to London was appalling with areas near small factory buildings being the worst.
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We once had the solution. Road Lengthsmen. Each man had a stretch of road that they were responsible for, grass trimming, ditch maintenance ect. I will always remember Clunk our local one telling me off for treading in one of his grips from road to ditch by riding my pony over them. He did not mind if the pony jumped cleanly but putting feet on the edges and breaking them was the crime.
Now his neat even grips are replaced by shallow scoops with a digger that are not even in the right places, his trimmed verges are weed infested wastelands covered in rubbish. He will be spinning in his grave.
Another of his doings was as the local grave digger. He told the vicar to tell the sick they could not die one week as he was having a few days with his daughter by the sea so could not dig the holes. however if they wished to dig their own holes first he would not bother them not to die.
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I agree there is a growing lack of pride in our environment, and we have allowed post Thatcher generations to expect the nanny state to clear up after them. It is pertinent that NONE of the party leaders, even the Green Party, made little or no reference to environmental issues in the recent leaders debate. We have a street cleaner in my local small town, but up the private road to our hamlet, we get loads of rubbish dropped, some from white van men eating their lunch and the rest I assume from walkers as the road is a public footpath. And dig walkers who bag up their dog faeces and then just dump the bag!
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I live in alone off a main road and people use it as a rubbish bin. I collect regularly as do my neighbours (some of them). Until I had cc tv put up outside my house I would regularly get fly tipping - now they just go further down the lane!
I did laugh last week though - there was a carrier bag which I picked up, full of lager tins. When I picked it up I found out they were full! Got home and opened the bag to find out it was non-alcoholic lager! I did laugh!
I personally would like to see prisoner gangs out collecting off the roadside, although, obviously, I would prefer it if people would consider littering as a disgusting thing to do!
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And dig walkers who bag up their dog faeces and then just dump the bag!
I've never seen the logic in this. After all, the worst part is the picking it up, so why not, having done so, just take it to a bin? Our town is full of bins that take ordinary litter and dog poo so you don't even have to carry it far. If you can't be bothered to dispose of it properly then at least leave it to break down naturally. Don't slow the process down by wrapping it in plastic.
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A dairy farmer I knew used to get very upset about bagged poo being left in the fields - if the cattle ate them (and young cattle will try to eat 'most anything), it could make them very ill, possibly needing an operation or even dying.
In the countryside there are often not any bins so people need to carry it back to their cars with them. I have been known to pick up a bag that's been left - perhaps to be picked up on the return journey, perhaps not - and put it on the bonnet of the owner's car.