The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Pets & Working Animals => Dogs => Topic started by: Ladygrey on March 31, 2015, 12:33:18 pm
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Hi there everyone :wave:
Long story short, Its been a difficult decision to come to, as I used to think I was good with all dogs and could train them with love and kindness but I have come to a brick wall with Jim, I have let him down and he is letting my whole life down... I have to find Jim a home, he is driving me to a nervous wreck and I cannot cope
I know that the breeder said to advertise him but I dont know how to honestly create an advert, and then what if he gets passed around from person to person and doesnt find a good home ???
I have googled and googled and for some reason just cannot find any Golden Retriever rescues, only labrador rescues, if anyone knew of a contact for me I would be very greatful
Thankyou in advance
Jess
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I'm surprised the breeder is not willing to take him back. Sorry don't know of any dedicated retriever rescue but surely the lab ones can help.
I believe the best chance of a rehome is honesty so he is taken on by someone that can do right by him.
What are the issues with the dog?
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Ah just saw your other thread has it all gone downhill again?
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The Breeder should take him back! Failing that there is a list of the Breed Clubs on the Kennel club website (see below) - choose one nearest to you - they almost all will have a rehoming coordinator, as most breed clubs have. They are not always separate organisations.
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/services/public/findaclub/breed/list.aspx?id=2048 (http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/services/public/findaclub/breed/list.aspx?id=2048)
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Yes in theory the breeder should take him back, but she refuses to and refuses to give my money back
so I cant exactly go and dump him on her door step...
Jim is still difficult and is not improving, he is a nightmare around the farm and he is not a good farm dog
not a single one of my fences can keep him in, strained stock wire is no match, he does not jump but he will bend and attack the wire, break the wire, squeeze through any gap or dig underneath, so therefore I have to put him in the house
When I put him in the house he has no manners and doesnt care a toot about anything, he will steal food off the table and counters, from your hand even, he will pick up and destroy anything other than food aswel, shoes, boots, clothing, carpet, kitchen cupboards the list goes on
So therefor I cannot leave him in the house, I am trying to keep him in the garden to no avail, I cannot have him with me full time, its impossible, so if I leave him for 5 secs he vanishes, three days ago he pushed through a stock wire and barbed wire fence and spent 20 mins chasing my ewes with lambs, he will kill a hen if it walks past him, I have no doubt that he is playing but this is too much now, he is driving me insane
I cant take him with me on a lead as he is too strong and he destroys my car....
The last two days he is now having to be kept on a chain when I am not able to watch him 24/7 (as he chews through rope) this isnt the life he needs, he needs better than this, he needs a home where he is the only dog, with a fenced in (solid fence not wire) garden away from livestock and he needs either a very dominant person who wont be upset by any of his rubbish or who can show him who is the boss, he is very very head strong and he dominates other dogs, he guards food and toys from other dogs aswell
Now how do I put an advert up for that kind of dog?? haha impossible really
Thankyou will contact the breed club :)
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I'm sure you're right and the breed soc is the place to start. From what you've said before, all Goldie people have said to you that yes, Goldies are like that! So presumeably his behaviour won't phase a Goldie person.
:fc: they manage to find the right home for him - and that this experience, whilst it's bound to make you more cautious, doesn't dent your confidence irrevocably :hug:
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Could try here https://www.facebook.com/groups/542166672527186/?ref=ts&fref=ts (https://www.facebook.com/groups/542166672527186/?ref=ts&fref=ts) hope they can help!
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Sorry LK that things haven't worked out :hug: :bouquet:
Seem to remember that Jim is only a young 'teenage' dog ..... hopefully the rescue will assess him and find a suitable home. He has probably missed out on some lessons as a youngster and now needs a firm hand to get him back in line. Male retrievers can be very headstrong and test boundaries and they are strong powerful dogs that take some handling physically if they get the idea that they are boss. Flat Coats can be just the same.
He probably needs constant, no- nonsense supervision.
Agree with others to try the breed society for help. :fc:
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How old is Jim? He sounds like just a pup. He will only know the manners that you have taught him, and if he still does not know his manners you need to teach him a different way. Are you thinking he has been born bad? Sorry but this country is full of dogs abandoned by their owners because they haven't bothered to put in the training. He is a young dog - train him, get help to train him, or get the breeder to take him back. Don't expect your money back - why would they refund you??? He is not in need of rescue. Dogs on deaths door in the pound are in need of rescue, not dogs who need training. Sorry to be quite terse and blunt, but when you spend time helping in rescue somehow you lose your tact and subtlety..... If you take up a rescue space for him ,a pound dog will die - FACT.
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:hug: :hug:
Hi, so sorry you are going through this. I had a problem about 10 years ago with a very dominant show cocker spaniel I had Paddy. He had failed drug dog training and had 5 homes in a year. He seemed untrainable and I DEFINITELY couldn't train him.
I send him here http://www.royvon.co.uk/ (http://www.royvon.co.uk/) on my vets advice. They were smaller then and only in Methyr Tydvil, it was basically doggy boot camp where they trained him all day every day and "reprogrammed" him. It worked for him and was definitely worth it because I couldn't have rehomed him as he was.
It WAS expensive and he was eventually rehomed with a neighbour anyway (because he was a lapdog and likes to sit on a chair all day) but if you had the money and were willing to spend it I would certainly give them a call. They were very helpful on the phone before I committed and very good at explaining their process.
Paddy is now 11 and lives in Devon (his owners having moved on retirement), without Royvon I would have had to put him to sleep.
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Obviously it's impossible to say without seeing him but the behaviour described seems to be the behaviour that many young male retrievers might show if they had been allowed to get 'out of hand' or however you might wish to describe it. I don't think from the brief description that it sounds like problematic 'dominant' behaviour that would warrant being PTS or making this dog unable to be rehomed or necessarily need 'boot camp'! :o
'Love and kindness' are really important in training but not the only thing. I will be totally honest and say that I couldn't train my Flattie with just 'love and kindness'. Some young male retrievers simply need to know that what you say goes .... full stop. Several people have come to fuss my Flattie and said that they had to give up their young males because they couldn't handle them. They loved them but just couldn't control them. These problems are not that unusual for young males as they hit adolescence.
Old Shep, I know what you are saying but can also imagine how difficult day to day activities could be with an unruly dog and LG seems to be stuggling. :hug:
I don't know anyone in your area LG but you could try a gundog trainer ..... even if your Jim is show/pet line and even if you have no intention of working him they would know how to get him under control around stock and how to get Jim to a good level of obedience. They would help you to gain respect from him.
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In fairness ITH's.... I have spaniels and have had a sprollie. My dogs have always been so keen to please they've trained themselves. ;D
I can only go on my own experience. I couldn't deal with Paddy (and I tried) and they could.
My blindies however (old abused and blinded) have to be retrained with only positive affirmation as they turn into gibbering wrecks with only a harsh word.
That doesn't mean it takes 2 months for Luca to learn that "out" means leave the sitting room and have his actually comply....
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Totally agree KC. 'Some' dogs can be trained with 'only positive affirmation' and a more harsh approach would cause more problems than it cured. I have a young working lab here, nothing bad has ever happened to her, but I don't even need to use a 'harsh' word when training her .... in fact I have to think long and hard about her training so that she hardly ever goes wrong and all is positive. She is 'upset' by cross words. Her breeding is such that she is very biddable .... possibly too biddable. Very eager to please.
Just saying that Jim may simply be a young dog that needs strong handling and rules. My Flattie would have behaved in similar ways to Jim and my young lab would still take food off the counters if I didn't keep an eye on her and since she is very greedy would possibly take food from your hand/ off your plate if she didn't know she would be in trouble for it.
I haven't looked at the site you posted and if it worked for you and Paddy that is great. You said that it was 'expensive' and thought that a gundog trainer may be less expensive and able to deal effectively with Jim's behaviour (if it is just headstrong young dog antics). My father trained gundogs but also trained other breeds where people were experiencing 'obedience' issues. Usually it is a stage in growing up and sorted fairly easily over a few months with a consistent approach .... of course it could be something more serious but good handlers/trainers would spot a real problem fairly quickly. :)
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Not sure if this will be any help at all but it does cover your area.
They also have a contact telephone number listed (for the Berkshire area) for one of their coordinators. Maybe close enough to you for them to be able to come out and assess Jim for you in conjunction with your thoughts about an appropriate new home for him? And it talks about 'rehoming' dogs as well as those who might need 'Rescue'.
http://www.goldenretrievers.co.uk/application/rescue/?iClubId=1 (http://www.goldenretrievers.co.uk/application/rescue/?iClubId=1)
Wishing you all the best.
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Do you think he could be trained as a gundog? He sounds driven and maybe a career is what the boy needs. There is a group on Facebook for Gundogs for Sale and obviously you can visit potential homes from him and make sure you are happy with his new home.
Not that my opinion counts for anything, but I think you are doing the right thing. It sounds as though neither you, or Jim, or indeed Tully, are happy and dogs are supposed to be a pleasure. Someone will get great pleasure out of Jim. You have no need to feel bad that it is not you x
I can understand Old Sheps frustration re a rescue centre, but you should be able to rehome him privately, or through organisations such as mentioned by Oops.
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10 years ago it was £600 for 3 weeks residential retraining, plus about £120 to collect him. I picked him up. I don't know what prices are like now.
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I think a rescue is the better option rather than advertising in any 'gundog' magazine etc. Please be careful if you look at rehoming as a 'gundog'. If he doesn't come up to scratch as a working dog he would be passed on in a flash again by most people who are seriously looking for a worker. :( Not all retrievers are suitable for working especially as Jim may not even be working line.
He may well benefit from gundog training .... channel his energies positively, high level of obedience, good exercise but to advertise him as such would IMO be a big mistake at this stage.
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I do understand where you are coming from, Old Shep, but...
It's an incredibly hard thing to do, to admit that one is beaten by a dog, and can't see a way out. And it happens, with the best of intentions, to experienced people too. One of the reasons I support organisations such as the Dogs Trust is that they are there to turn to. Not just for the street cur, but also for good people with good hearts who find themselves unable to cope with a dog.
If they really can't cope, what happens to that dog? It may have only been a bolshy teenager but now, unfortunately, its owner having failed to handle it, it does have problems that will take some expertise to overcome - and will need an experienced new owner who can cope with that background.
If the current owner feels that they can't approach a rescue organisation, be it the Breed Soc or Dogs' Trust or whatever, what will be the outcome? Most likely the dog gets locked up, chained, goes mad, bites someone, gets PTS. Or escapes and ends up - now a worthy occupant of a kennel space - in rescue - but now a much harder problem to solve and without the owner's story to inform and help with its rehabilitation.
(Or escapes, chases sheep and gets shot, of course.)
So, as I say, I do understand where you are coming from. Too many people get a dog that looks nice or is seen as some sort of status symbol or fashion accessory, and it is galling that they then pass this animal onto a charity to sort out - and probably then go and buy the next fashion animal. :rant:
Hopefully the organisation to which they take the animal suggests what would be a reasonable donation to cover the costs of rehabilitating and rehoming ;)
Ladygrey is hardly in this category. She has tried, and is admitting that this dog is beyond her. As far as I can see, she isn't asking for anyone else to pay for the mistakes she has made (just because one takes a dog to a rescue org does not mean one doesn't cover its costs), and is trying her hardest to act responsibly and come up with the best outcome for the dog, its future owner, her other dog, her other livestock, and herself.
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How old is Jim? He sounds like just a pup. He will only know the manners that you have taught him, and if he still does not know his manners you need to teach him a different way. Are you thinking he has been born bad? Sorry but this country is full of dogs abandoned by their owners because they haven't bothered to put in the training. He is a young dog - train him, get help to train him, or get the breeder to take him back. Don't expect your money back - why would they refund you??? He is not in need of rescue. Dogs on deaths door in the pound are in need of rescue, not dogs who need training. Sorry to be quite terse and blunt, but when you spend time helping in rescue somehow you lose your tact and subtlety..... If you take up a rescue space for him ,a pound dog will die - FACT.
Jim is now 13 months old, I got him when he was 10-11 months old, im sorry but he came with a whole hoard of "manners" which I did not train into him, so how can you say he will only know the manners I have taught him?
I have tried and tried a few ways to teach him and yes he seems eager to please but I think he is simply too head strong and large for me, I never said he was a bad dog and I never said he was born bad, he is a happy dog who loves to fetch a ball but he is not suited to being on my farm and I do not want him to get hurt or cause an accident, also I cannot offer him a lovely life which would be fantastic for him
The reason why I asked for money back was after three days of having him it was like a living nightmare, they had said they would take him back and refund me if it did not work out, isnt this grounds to ask for my money back? they then turned around and said they wouldnt take him back full stop
Please dont chat rubbish to me about helping in a dog rescue, my family and I have rescued dogs and fostered dogs for rescue's for years, please dont tar people who give dogs in to rescues all with the same brush, everyone has different circumstances, what if I want to find Jim a lovely home and do the best for him? something I cannot offer him
I only posted on here to ask for any contacts, you have no idea how much your post has upset me
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Thankyou everyone else with all of my heart for all of your help and guidance
I will let you know the outcome when/if we can find Jim the home he deserves
edit: he is most definitely not gundog material, very showline shaped and built with a very hard and strong mouth
Jess
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Sorry LG I thought from your post that you had Jim from being a young pup, but see you have had him 8 - 12 weeks thats all. :-\ :-\
I hope to god that this poor young dog gets someone who will train him and let him have a happy ever after which can be counted in years not days. It sounds like he's overdue some good luck.
My views remain the same, which I won't reiterate, and I'm sorry if your are upset by them, but rest assured Jim will be even more upset, and the pound dog whose place he takes will hopefully drift off into the next world peacefully.
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And here I go again!!! :innocent:
Breeding should be licensed and controlled! For ALL breeds or non breeds of dog!
At least then there would be some reduction in all these poor souls that end up dead because the rescues/pounds couldn't find enough homes.
I have pedigree dogs now, and at 71 it's unlikely I'll have any more, but if I was able to live my life again I'd have at least one from a dogs home.
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Most of my dogs have been rehomed from about 10 months, my first bless her was a hyper active collie, a steep learning curves as I was 21 and newly married, trying to do up a house on a budget. She had been shut in a flat not house trained, getting her home in the car she took the skin off my hands and then proceeded to destroy anything in front of her if left alone.
I am really sorry but I feel more sorry for the dog than you. Its trying to make sense of its new home and learn the rules and this takes time and a lot of effort.
I made a lot of mistakes with my collie, I blame reading Barbara Woodhouse for most of them and my basic inexperience but what I did do was spend lots of time with her, gave her structure, lots of exercise, I am talking miles and persisted. For a long time. When she destroyed yet another pair of shoes, whose fault was that, mine. We she dug through a bed, it was not her fault, when she growled at me it was anxiety. I can not say really I trained the dog, she trained me. When she died at 18, she was my dearest companion and the best 2/6p I had ever spent. When my rescue lurcher used to run off and take hours to catch, it was because it was afraid of the beating that some b*****d had given him not because he was naughty.
When you take on an older dog the chances are you take on problems, if you are lucky they are quickly sorted. My new rehome, she was 10 months, has been an angel but I bet there is a tale of why they got rid of her as through FB I know they have a new dog, she is a RottiX and needs to know her place.
On the positive side there are people who would love dog like yours, I have a friend who rehomes working dog types, one a lab was literally shoved through the door at her and the door shut. In the mean time I think you need to think how you manage the dog, if you have horses you will know if its not working try something else. I would electrify the fence or only take him outside on a lead and somehow inflate the other dogs dominance and yours. I know you have rehomed other dogs but to me he sounds like a normal young dog who has a poor start.
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Some things you may want to try (if you haven't already) in the meantime:
Pulling on lead - try a K9 bridle, or Gentle Leader type head collar, or a fleece figure of 8 sold by Mad Spaniels online shop - don't try to just put it on and expect him to accept it - you have to desensitise him to it first.
Guarding toys - remove all toys and only let the dogs have them when they are on their own.
Guarding food - feed in separate rooms.
Escaping from the garden - don't leave unsupervised, or if even then he escapes, keep him on a lead or long line.
Separation anxiety - he needs a safe place of his own, where he is fed, where no other dog goes, where there is nothing to destroy, like a stable, under stairs cupboard, or try again with a crate and desensitise him to it. One foster dog of mine was only really chilled out in my van - so that's where he spent lots of time!
Destroying things - he needs a safe pace of his own...
Have you thought of an outdoor kennel for him? with a sleeping box, galvanised bars and a roof?
I have dogs which between them have all of the above problems and more, (well until last week when I lost my beloved Lucy) and management is the key. You have to work with the dog "in front of you" not hang onto the "ideal" dog you maybe thought you were getting. You may be think you can't give him the "wonderful life" you think he deserves - but anyone working with this dog will have to do the above in order to cope with him. He will never be a dog that can be left to roam around a smallholding (not many can, and even less SHOULD!) so he needs containing safely. BTW dogs need 16 to 17 hours of sleep a day apparently so don't think its cruel to shut him in somewhere for a sleep!
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Why not give the dogs trust a call? There are several centres not too far from you. If they took him you could be pretty sure he would get properly assessed, training he needs and eventually rehomed to a suitable place.
Its no disgrace to give up on a dog. Sometimes they just dont match your personality, lifestyle or whatever. Much better to pass him on now & see if he suits someone else. Also I wouldnt worry about taking up a space in a rescue centre, the majority of "rescue" dogs are "rehome" dogs like Jim
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Try these - I see you are in Basingstoke
http://www.goldenretrievers.co.uk/application/rescue/index.php?iClubId=1 (http://www.goldenretrievers.co.uk/application/rescue/index.php?iClubId=1)
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ladygrey I really feel for you.
I know you've seen local Lab rescues but have you tried contacting them? The NW Lab Rescue does take retrievers so maybe the one near you might too.