The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Goats => Topic started by: Penninehillbilly on March 30, 2015, 12:12:41 pm
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Hi
My boer has just had triplets (sadly all males).
last one was still in sac, cleared him but he's coughing and spluttering.
any advice?
and will she feed them OK or will I have to feed one, or suppliment all three?
my lot have never had triplets, it was a bit of a surprise :)
T I A
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If you have the milk (from other goats) and the time/space I would definitely bottle feed the "odd one out", either biggest or smallest. But if he stays with mum he will continue to suckle, so you would have to separate them - do you have other kids for company that are bottle-reared? If not, maybe leave them with her and offer bottle to all three.
I give all of my newly born kids a quick 1st bottle of 100ml or so of freshly milked out colostrum from mum, that way I am certain they (all) had some and the 2nd or 3rd kid doesn't get pushed aside so easily. If I have triplets I also tube-feed all three the first couple of nights at about 10.30pm (150 to 200ml freshly off mum), again to make sure they all go to sleep (and they are in with the dam so can go and suckle anyway) with a full tummy.
Any of mine that are a bit slow to get to the teat and/or won't take the bottle straight away, get their first shot of colostrum by tube. Any that I am not 100% certain that they have found the milk-bar by evening (any I haven't seen properly suckling), will also get 150 to 200ml by tube for their first night.
It may be a bit over the top, but I can sleep through the night knowing they are fed!
I would possibly give the one that is coughing and spluttering a wee shot of AB's, fluid in the lungs is never good. Has he managed to get some colostrum? Maybe easiest to just tube him quickly.
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Thanks Anke
The 'splutterer' seems OK now, Bonnie's teats have obviously been suckled and they all seem laying contented,
I usually do make make sure they have some colostrum from the bottle, but as they do seem settled I thought I leave them for now. I also think it makes them a bit more friendly later on when they've had their first feed from bottle.
I have tube fed one before but I'm a bit wary, worried I'd get it wrong,
I haven't got any more bottle kids so I'll just keep offering them a bottle, and keep stoking their tummies, checking they aren't empty. Just hope Angelica is willing to donate some milk for these 'foreigners' :) .
I had to dash out for a while but going over now to check on them.
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The "good-stretch-when-woken-up" test works also very well for goat kids (as indeed for lambs), but if you are rearing yours for meat introducing creep early on will probably help as well.
One of mine had triplets this year (after a serious bout of hypocalcaemia...) and the one thing that was bad was that all three were suckling from one side only, and the udder was seriously uneven, with the non-used side also being quite tight - needed easing out twice per day. I don't know if they would have in time started to use both sides, as I have taken the kids off onto the bottle now anyway. The dam's udder is also almost back to being even (2weeks)
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Hi
I don't think Bonnie has enough milk for them all, so going to milk Nutty, who kidded Saturday, will her milk still be nutritous enough for day olds?
Starting a new thread asking about tube feeding
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Yep, better than nothing and definitely better than Lamlac.
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If I up Bonnies concentrate rations, maybe add dairy nuts in, would this help or would I run into other problems (milk fever etc?)
She doesn't seem to have eaten much hay overnight. Given her a couple of handfulls of 'Top Grass' this morning
I have to admit, I don't give them high rations, she's only been on about 1.5 lb a day (probably bit less), + sugar beet and veg, as well as hay of course.
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It may help, but I have found in the past that by simply increasing the concentrate ration you do not necessarily get a huge improvement in milk figures. Greenery is what she needs - and yes nothing much out here too....
That said, of course a good ration will help to improve her milk yield, just introduce dairy nuts (if you have them) slowly. She may not at them if she is not used to them, but if they normally get mix of some sort you can just mix them in and slowly increase. My girls (bar two) love I'Anson's 18% dairy nuts, but often go off Carr&Billlingtons after the first couple of bags...
If she is struggling to feed them now she will probably continue to do so, so I would try and get them used to top ups.
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Thanks Anke, really appreciate your advice.
I realise I'll have to help out soon, but the longer I can leave it to Bonnie the better?
Once wormed I'll turn her out for an hour or so and then offer them a bottle.
I have some creep feed in, the older kids (3wk) don't want to know, so I don't suppose the boys will want to know yet, What age do they normally try solids? Again when mums out I'll offer them a bowl.
Maybe goat mix may smell more tempting for starters?
One of them had a bad back leg, going to try and geta better photo of it.
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If I have a goat with triplets I now take one off as they grow better in my experience. If wanting to leave one on I would get them all used to the bottle as it can be very hard to get them to take it if left with mum too long in my experience. We introduced creep at 3 weeks this year - prior to that they nibble at mums food anyway - people tell me they introduce it as young as 10 days. Boer goats sometimes get wobbly legs - they usually strengthen up in a week or so. My vet advised binding would be counter productive and as long as kid can feed leave well alone and just observe.
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I have found mine prefer a baby calf mix (18% protein) plus some oats to any kind of creep feed. The small pellet bits in the mix get left in... but they love the maize, peas and oats. I also sprinkle on some readigrass and they love that. Mine have access to hay pretty much from day 1, mix from about 2 to 3 weeks. Be prepared to refresh the feed a few times during the day (the bowls get turned over a lot and also peed in...) and waste quite a bit of food. I never leave it in during the night though.
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Not sure if these are purebred boers or %. I have 75% does and they are quite milky and manage triplets. However, with the goats and sheep, I usually introduce triplets to the bottle and get at least one or two accepting it, that way if they get hungry they will top up from bottle. I keep an eye on them through the first week and any that shout a lot I give them some bottle.
I find mums are usually happy to look after them all but do appreciate the help with feeding and my mums bring their babies to me and wait while I feed them. Hopefully your boys will all thrive. Definitely agree to introduce them to concentrate. Mine are very quick to copy mum and all were eating mix from 2 weeks.
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Hi
thanks,not been well for a few days so not been here.
got some dairy nuts and calf mix this morning, (need another dead freezer at this rate),
little one is taking about 100ml at night, others don't want to know. I can't take one away as I don't have any other bottle babes. Bonnie seems to be holding out quite well so far. She does watch me feeding little one with interest :)
They are 100%, about 5generation.
Back Leg is now OK so that's a relief.
had 2 disbudded yesterday as I was having some Toggs done anyway. hopefully they'll have a better chance of a future. Other one is slightly mis-marked on his neck.
Wormed the 2 new mums yesterday so hopefully weather will pick up and I can turn them out for an hour or 2.
Thanks again, I'll appreciate any more advice you think of.
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Hi more advice please?
now about 11 days old.
I've been trying to think of a way I can seperate them, Bonnie has sores on her teats, presume babies are hanging on when trying to feed and pushing each other out.
Little one likes his bottle, one of the others takes some but wants to chew rather than suck.
I can't keep one on it's own, if I take 2 off then I'll have to try and milk her, her teeny teats don't look easy, tried to think of a way of rotating the kids but that would be more stressful all round?
So, I'm wondering if an aquaintance may be interested in buying one, I know he lost his male ealrier this year, and mine are unrelated to his females. Question is, is it reasonable to sell a 2 week old kid, and how much would one be worth (as a rough bargaining figure?),
* Other option, I've been offered 'pet lamb', not sure how old it is, but it follows farmers wife and daughter round, (farmer says 'NO' to keeping it), but I would think it would be a lot bigger than this little chap. I can't see that working (apart from CAE problems?) but it's just a thought.
If I had others there wouldn't be a problem, and I'd happily bottle feed
Thoughts please, I really don't know what to do, but I have to help Bonnie somehow.
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If you are able to milk (and have the time etc) then I would just bite the bullet and take the kids off her and milk her twice a day. Small teats are a nuisance, but they will become bigger if regularly milked. Then you will a) know how much milk she produces and can supplement with Lamlac or similar if needed and b) you can put nappy rash cream (something like Metanium or Sudo cream) onto her teats/udder to help these sores to heal. If you put it on the kids may not want to suckle anyway, but if you leave as is and the kids continue to suckle you risk mastitis....
I would not bring in a lamb from another farm, it's not just CAE (I think there has never been a documented case of MV virus spread to goats, but it is theoretically possible) but a general biosecurity risk. I did bring in two young out-of-season lambs last year and they lived in the goat shed, in their own pen and it worked out ok. There was no contact between lambs and goats/kids until lambs had had their Heptavac and been on my farm for over 4 weeks. Lambs also got wormed etc on arrival. My kids were at that time already 6 months old.
No way is a kid old enough to be sold at 2 weeks, especially if he has had a bit of a shaky start. I let mine go only once they had their first, and preferably also their second shot of Lambivac/Ovipast, so about three months.
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I would take off the ones you think will have the best chance of being bottle reared - perhaps leave one. I sold 3 kids at 5 days old to people to bottle rear as they were triplets to save me bottle rearing them. I charged £75 for a 100% male (I don't castrate males anymore) - that included £25 for the disbudding. The people I sold them to were competent stock people so I see no danger in selling them in these circumstances. What I would never do is sell them at a market or such like. The male I will register if when he is older I view him and consider him as good enough (subject to an additional fee) which he might well be given his genetics and how his siblings are turning out to be. Just my views