The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: trish.farm on March 10, 2015, 09:24:26 am
-
Only lambed 10 ewes this year, have 2 of last years ewes lambs to go into the flock for next year. Bringing me up to 12. However, have 1 ewe who prolapsed before lambing, one ewe with very bad feet and one ewe with a cow udder!! That would be 3 being culled one quarter of my flock!!! bad feet girl will have to go in my freezer for mutton sadly, she is only 3 years and has produced 2 sets of super twins, so really gutting. Prolapse ewe will be retired as she is a handreared pet ewe of 6 years and I cant bear to cull her! cow udder ewe is a big ??.
How do you lot with small flocks make decisions on culling when the ewes are basically pets, and culling reduces your flock dramatically? Had hoped to keep back half a dozen ewe lambs this year as using a different tup for next year, but only had one ewe lamb born!!
I am working on what is best for the ewe and its welfare.
-
Its hard to get used to culling a small flock and there will always be pets and you don't need to beat yourself up about that (my first pet was a sheep, she lived to 13). You need to focus on why you have sheep and extrapolate from there. If you are commercial and there are better performers coming through they need to go. If you are breeding for the freezer how many pets do you want to carry. If you have sheep for fun and the old culls are not fun to have around they need to go.
Ultimately they are keeping a new, young sheep out of the flock and what ever the purpose of your flock they have to be good enough in your eyes to justify that and stay. If you think they should go at least there is a little group to take to the market at once.
-
We culled our first sheep February last year after scanning - a barren ewe (she'd had two years; she shoudl only have had one but she was my first homebred ewe) and a tup, who was a git, so that made it easier.
In August we put away one of our three foundation ewes and her daughter - neither were very prolific and they were hard to handle.
My other two "original" ewes will die here - they have a home for life. They "mentor" the ewe lambs ;) - teach them to come to call and to the bucket.
Since all fifteen to the tup were in lamb, none went in February. After lambing, I'll review it.
TBH, I like my sheep but I'm not hugely attached to them as individuals (apart from Juno and Jinx) but I agree that you should be keeping the best in your flock. So someones got to go.
We have a market for mutton so we can private kill, which makes it easier for me thatn putting them through the ring.
-
I have 8 ewes to lamb this year and in October, just before putting the tup in, I went through and culled out 3 of my older ewes. One was only rising 4 but had a horrendous lumpy udder and although she reared superb twins last year, her teats were always huge and made life difficult. The other two girls were older - and both had udder issues but still successfully reared twins last year. It was more a case of sending the 3 and an older whether (who constantly had bad feet) off together that made my mind up. Out of the group, one was a very difficult decision as I had her for 10 years, but decided that I just couldn't keep a long string of lawnmowers for years on end.
My girls are all young now (oldest being 4) and so I hope to have these for some time and just add a few ewe lambs if I take a fancy to them. I have one very old girl of 17 years, who will never be culled - she will die here and like Rosemary's older girls, she is a godsend to the ewe lambs and anything I might have to keep in overnight etc. She also appears to nanny everyone's young lambs each year, and can often be found with them all led around her whilst their mothers are off grazing.
My girls stay with me for as long as they are healthy, fit and can rear their lambs successfully. I do not cull a ewe if she needs assistance with lambing and I am a lot more lenient than many people who are keeping sheep as a business/to try and make a profit. Making a profit (if there is such a thing with sheep) is way down my list of priorities as my small flock are just for my enjoyment. I just love spending time with them and having a few lambs leaping about each year. All my girls are named run up to me when I walk out in the field and call to me from the field when I walk out of the house. Therefore, if I wanted to keep a few extra on just as pets, I would do without a second thought. I won't have another "clear out" for quite some time now, even if I acquire additional lawnmowers after this year’s lambing!
-
I personally think that culling is of an even higher importance in a small flock
If I had a small flock of say 10 sheep, and one was lame, one had a giant udder and one was a prolapse, thats 30% of the entire flock being no good, so a very high percentage of the flock
I have 107 sheep, and currently 3 are persistently lame and one ewe lamb aborted two days ago, these sheep are all culls and are notched already to go, If I didnt notch everything each time I had to do its feet then I would have a much higher proportion of the flock being lame
I notch for every time she is lame, sometimes if she is a horrid ewe she goes after one notch, some go at two but every one goes at 3 notches
I started doing this when I had a very small flock and now that I have a normal small flock I belive it has worked well as I have a low rate of lame sheep
I also now have started selecting for a certain foot structure, The feet which do the best for me are the ones which are wide and have air gaps between the toes, the feet which go lame on my ground are the narrow, tight feet with no air gaps between the toes
If you cull your three ewes and introduce three new young sheep into the flock then your whole flock will benefit :thumbsup:
-
Thank you :wave:
My ewes are all tame and have names which makes culling oh so hard!! The ewe who prolapsed will join Wooly who is now 16 who keeps my ewe lambs company, and will live out there days here. I love my sheep and I also just breed for the joy of having them around, to fill my freezer and to sell the rest to cover some of my costs!! Wish I could say profit!! :innocent:
Will probably give my cow uddered Romney a stay of execution as she is now off in the sunshine with her day old lamb happily feeding from her without my help. If I have to battle with suckling lambs for 24 hours so be it!!
Ewe with bad feet is a welfare case so will go as mutton as I have a friend who will take as much mutton as I can supply!!
Glad I am not the only one who has tame, named sheep who get treated as part of the family!! :roflanim:
-
I think this is a really interesting thread as I agree that culling a 3rd of your flock seems a very big deal but I think you have come to the right decision.
The challenge that I find is that replacing a rare breed ewe of the right type and quality isnt easy even if it was affordable as they are not readily available.
If they have an inherent weakness like the feet or an issue that they will pass on to their offspring then it's an easier decision to make even if you cant replace them. I have one who produces cracking lambs but is skittish when they are born. She struggles to know what to do with them and headbuts them if they try to feed. I have to be there when she lambs so I can tie her up with a leather dog collar and lead till she gets the hang of it. Admittedly it only takes a couple of hours but its a pain.
In the night that she lambed I was tired and frustrated and ready to cull her after weaning but like your cow udder ewe, in the cold light of day I decided that it may be more prudent to keep her on for now until the lambs from this year can replace her. She has produced 2 super lambs again and the money they make will go towards buying a replacement. Once she is bonded with them she is a good mum ( if a little absent minded) so I will keep her another year at least.
All my sheep have names and come when called they are all handled and cared for the same even if I know they are destined for a new home or the butcher. I don't feel guilty if they go for meat but I do think that being discerning about traits and weaknesses in a small flock is just as important for the development of the breed as it is for commercial set ups. I just think the cost and availability of replacements makes it a harder decision sometimes.
Well done trish.
-
All my 'own' sheep are named, and one or two of 'his' too. (Mine are broadly fleece sheep, and we eat mine; his are commercials, many of whom also have lovely fleece but who are here to produce lambs to sell.)
Many of our cows are named too.
BH is very good at sending things away when it's in their best interests. He's also very practical about selling other than 100% productive ewes when the cull market is good, whereas I always feel that they should be allowed to stay if "they haven't done anything wrong". (And a ewe dropping her lambs once is not a ticket out to me, I give them another chance.)
My own sheep don't need to make a profit but I don't want to be pouring thousands into them. They give me a huge amount of pleasure, in looking after them - they are such characters! - and in spinning their fleeces, and sharing nice fleeces with other spinning friends.
Ideally I will get to where I have a flock of good fleece sheep that can mostly produce decent commercial lambs, so that I can put them to the commercial tup for commercial lambs when I am not wanting replacements or to try a new fleece tup.
In the next year or three, this may mean culling some ewes who've helped to get me started with the fleece flock but who won't be able to produce commercial lambs and don't have particularly special fleeces themselves. I will find that hard, no question about it, but I will do it because it's for the best all round.
It's even harder with the Jerseys. Once they've been hand-milked, there's a real deep mutual bond there. I suspect I won't be able to send any of them off, unless it's for their own good - and then, it'd be local abattoir, not mart. Thankfully, like my 'funny little sheep', they fetch very little in the fat ring, so I shan't have to argue too hard ;)
-
when i decided to get sheep i decided even in a small flock i would be very pragmatic about who stays and goes, from each crop of lambs i will keep back 2 ewe lambs (from a flock of 10) and at 18 months i will keep the best 10 in the flock and who ever doesn't make the grade will be sold or eaten as appropriate...
this year is my first year and i have 1 ewe with persistent foot problems and she is the hardest to handle of all of the flock, in all honesty unless the lambs she is currently carrying are the best of the whole flock she probably won't be tupped this year and will go in the freezer... i wouldn't sell her on as she has problems and we will eat mutton happily if it comes to it...
final decision will be august when we sort lambs etc...
-
It's hard but with a small flock you just can't justify hangers-on. Their place would be better filled with another sheep who doesn't have issues. Perhaps if you had had more ewe-lambs this year then you might not be finding the decision quite so hard.
I culled two of my favourite ewes last autumn. I sent them off at the same time as some lambs so that made it a bit easier.
-
We've culled a couple of times but only on welfare grounds. If we ran a professionals eye over most of our 7 ewes taking into account difficult lambings, feet, instances of mastitis etc we'd prob just be left with molly. We're not farmers, its not our livelihood, its our hobby and provided they are in good happy health Polly, Flo, Penny, Shaun the sheep, Pip, Jenny and Molly of course will be here for several more years
-
Hi Trish, I'm with you, I have 15 sheep at the moment 4 in lamb ewes, one older lady 'wooly' who I got from a neighbour and who is very tame and always has been. The problem I have is that all her lambs are tame as well. I kept twin ewe lambs two years ago, put them in lamb, one has a problem with her pelvis and cannot be bred from again having had twins and the other had to have a c-section. Both stand in front of me so that I can remove hay from their wooly coats. I have 5 lambs left from last year who had a B 12 problem so didn't finish, all ,related to wooly all very tame. My vet says " no" let them go but it's difficult when you've had all winter to get to know them. I can do it straight off the mums but much harder when I know them.
Then there's Mrs Mule who reminds me of a previous mule, stupid !! Haven't bred her for a year and won't again, and so it goes on . Good luck with your dilemma :hug: and heaven help me :idea:
-
I have one older ewe who has a home for life, however I have a problem this year deciding re one of my originals (7 years old - great ewe but udder problem this year) plus what was a very expensive ewe (uterine prolapse last year - give an chance but barren).
Will try to find them homes as rotating grazers with someone with horses, and if that fails I will have to consider them going direct to abbatoir (as my lambs do now) if I can find buyers for mutton. They will not go off to a market whatever happens! Strangely the option of having them killed at home and just taken away doesn't sit well as it seems so wasteful - even though on the plus side they wouldn't have the stress of being 'processed' which if I'm honest is the most upsetting bit - given how trusting they are.
When does a ewe become too old to have sellable mutton from? If the mutton from a 7/6 year old ewe is useable then perhaps I can cope with two going off together. Not easy !
-
It is so comforting reading everyones comments, and realising I am not the only daft, sentimental "pet" sheep shepherd here!! Thank you all so much for making me realise its not just me that's mad!! :roflanim:
Its very difficult trying to justify your actions to a commercial sheep farmer as they think you are totally batty! I will always take cull a ewe for mutton if she is suffering for any reason. I would rather she went for mutton than be totally wasted in an incinerator, but they never go in the ring. Not even my lambs do!!
If you have the space, which I do, its lovely to be able to keep old girls who are retired, but only the tame, named ones, I have a couple who will go for mutton if necessary. Sadly its always the favourites who end up having a problem.
ewesaidit - I had a 6 year old slaughtered last year for mutton after mastitis and cronic foot problems, the friend who bought the meat said it was the best mutton she had ever had!!
There is always the problem that we keep the weakest stock because we have hand reared them, or they were a bit slow starting etc. We then breed from them and have to keep their ewe lamb to go into the flock because its "Tinkerbells daughter". She then turns out to have the same weakness as her mother and so it goes on. Not good for a strong gene pool but so easy to do. I have this right now, only had 1 ewe lamb born out of 14, but today wee tinkerbell pops out 2 ewe lambs. Did her normal and butted the first lamb away after the second lamb was out. Her mother used to do this too. (obviously in the genes only wanting 1 lamb!) However I just leave her to it and after 20 minutes she finally accepts both lambs. She did this last year and raised 2 lovely ram lambs. I would so love to keep her 2 ewe lambs but are they going to be the same when they lamb and try rejecting one of the twins?
Commercial sheep farmer would have her down the road at the first opportunity!!!!
-
I will always buy mutton!
-
Commercial sheep farmer would have her down the road at the first opportunity!!!!
Some would yes, but there actually is a very surprising amount of commercial farmers who would keep it
-
I have moved on most of my trouble makers and it was worth it as lambing so far has gone well, no losses (shouldn't speak too soon as 6 to go!) and no orphans. Only one iffy one left but she has produced triplets this year and is a good mum even if difficult to deliver lambs.
I think it is difficult whatever the age with small flocks. What do people do with tups? My Suffolk ram is such a softy and now 4 yrs old. Presumably no good to eat. Not sure I could ever part with him, is castration an option eventually so he can stay?
I could sell him on now while he still had life in him but couldn't guarantee getting another like him that I can manage.
-
I have the same issue with my HD tup. Such a lovely chap - good looking and fantastic temperament. He throws some fab lambs. He is rising 3 so I could sell him on but worry about what sort of home he would end up in ::) I will be keeping him I suspect :innocent:
-
BH cycles his tups frequently - you guys are making me wonder whether that's partly so he doesn't get too fond of them.
With our current bull, we've held off keeping any of his daughters on so far so that we don't have to face that 'too many of his daughters' moment too soon. But we've had some really lovely heifer calves off him this year, I suspect we'll start to keep them on now. Two, or at most three, more years Brad... :-\
His predecessor we acquired after BH's uncle saw him withdrawn from sale having only reached fat price. Uncle knew we were looking for an Angus bull and that we need a really quiet one as we have public footpaths and thousands of tourists (not exaggerating.) We contacted the owner, who said he was too 'nice a gentleman' to go in the fat and he wanted a working home for him. We bought him for just a little more than fat price, and he did us proud for two years. Having kept on some of his daughters, we then tried to find him another working home but drew a blank. I suggested contacting the previous owner, just in case. Sure enough, he now had a batch of unrelated heifers he could use Ridley on, so bought him back. We heard that a couple of years later, he'd then found him another working home, where he'd be on a very small herd of dairy cows so could stay as long as he could work :)
So you see, it's not just smallholders who get attached to certain animals ;)
(And the heifer calves we are most likely to keep on have Ridley as their grandpa and Brad as their pa ;) )
-
I have a small flock o 30 ewe lambs. I have some definant ones t go, two barren who are persistently lame and who complete little monkey :rant: who causes as much havoc as possible at any given oppertunity. If I stick to culling any with issue I hope it will make my flock better
-
For me, if it's a hobby flock, unless there are welfare issues you should be able to keep whatever animals you like, since it is you who'll bear the consequences. Equally though, the logic of replacing a problem animal with a better one is obvious and requires no justification if that's what you decide to do.
The problem comes when dealing with rare breeds etc, where there may not be a better replacement waiting in the wings. However, unless the breed is *really* rare, wouldn't it be better in the long term to keep a few really good sheep than a lot of average / poor ones?
My problem is that having finally got in touch with my ruthless side and made my decisions for next year, Mrs Womble doesn't agree! ::)
-
READING THE COUNTRY SMALLHOLDING .SMALLHOLDERS NAW NEED better stock more money better breeds a pigme goat made 700 pound saterday hot livestock high VALUE live stock better replacements rtificial Insemination the way forward for better stock and more at the sales so the flok needs to be better We've culled a couple of times you need the best stock posabul olor]
-
OK if you keep all the offspring and never sell on any as potential breeders as you then have the resultant problems to deal with. Doesn't do the breed any favours if you don't. We cull ruthlessly and have an easier lambing with every successive year. Occasionally we keep an old ewe in good condition to be a "nanny" sheep to the ewe lambs after weaning, but she'll not be bred from again and be replaced as soon as she struggles to keep her condition.
-
I need to get rid of my Zwartble Tup, I don't really want to sell him on as he has atrocious feet, I have not kept any of his offspring! He is now 2 years old, what on earth should I do with him?
-
I need to get rid of my Zwartble Tup, I don't really want to sell him on as he has atrocious feet, I have not kept any of his offspring! He is now 2 years old, what on earth should I do with him?
I would eat him :).
-
I need to get rid of my Zwartble Tup, I don't really want to sell him on as he has atrocious feet, I have not kept any of his offspring! He is now 2 years old, what on earth should I do with him?
I would eat him :).
Have to do the same with my black Shetland tup, his temperament is just too difficult to handle (his feet are fine)... but he was still reeking of tup :P a couple of weeks ago...
-
Unfortunately there are loads of surplus Zwartble tups about. Plenty of good ones at the Stirling auction in September didn't sell at the minimum price of £150, so the freezer is surely the best place for one with bad feet.
You have all our sympathies though DM :bouquet: .
-
Thanks Trish. That's good to know re the mutton from older ewes. Will need to decide soon as winter grazing let ends at the end of March and then I'm struggling for grazing until the grass comes through.
I no longer send lambs off to market - partly because of the way they were handled when they got there, partly because of the odd derogatory comment about my (non commercial breed) lambs and undeserved poor prices, and partly because they probably end up on a lorry for many hours before they meet their fate. Managed to find buyers at my work who were happy to have half a lamb butchered and boxed for the freezer and a reasonably local farmer who takes them straight to the abbatoir and I collect the boxed meat from him. As I only have around half a dozen tup lambs to go each year this works well.