The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Pets & Working Animals => Dogs => Topic started by: Marches Farmer on March 01, 2015, 10:28:42 am
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We're thinking of getting one of these to be more of a companion dog than our Border Collies, who will happily work sheep till they drop but hate to be in the house for more than ten minutes. Never kept a retriever breed before so any tips would be most gratefully received.
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Can be very nice family dogs. Love carrying soft toys around. Energetic when out but happy to settle in the house. Some love water (mud)! Easy to train, not as quickly as a collie but also don't pick up the bad habits as quick as a collie. Can chew lots as a pup. Can be greedy so weight watch.
Very nice all rounder really :thumbsup:
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I think Goldies on the whole aren't a daft as Labs when puppies but equally slow to mature. Affectionate and good family pets, if you don't mind all that shedding ::)
Watch out for hip and elbow scores.
Male Goldies can become really quite big and heavy dogs. Nowhere near as intelligent as a collie.
Re chewing: I think all retrieving breeds do a lot of mouthing when they are young but a neighbour's young Goldie ate right through her utility room wall. Oops!
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Were you thinking of getting working line or show/pet line?
We have kept working line labs and Flat Coats as house dogs but known working Golden Retrievers as father trained them for other people. Show/pet lines are probably a bit easier going as you would expect but I like working line retrievers as they tend to be lighter in build, more athletic, etc.
Labs I would say are the easiest to train and handle, then Goldies and then Flatties. Working lines are in general quick to learn and eager to please. They are 'active' but Labs and Goldies usually settle well in the house. Flatties can be more 'challenging', particularly the males. They never grow up and tend to be more 'head strong'. Real characters though. Most retrievers love companionship of humans and other dogs and are usually good and reliable around poultry/stock (with training of course). Working lines will probably show interest in 'game' but usually easily managed ... with training.
I think all retrievers are 'mouthy' but suspect all pups/ young dogs will chew if left unsupervised so not much different in that way. They love to carry and usually are playful and love children.
Father feels that, in his experience, he has met more Goldies with a tendency to show a bit of aggression towards other dogs than he has with other retriever breeds.
I really like the look of the working Goldies that are more 'red' than 'gold'.
HTH
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Very helpful. Are show/pet lines so very different to working? Our youngest BC chewed a hole in a wooden door so I now have a large puppy cage and outside kennels made from galv. and breeze blocks! What should I be looking for with regard to hip/elbow scores?
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I hope this link works for you
http://www.thegoldenretrieverclub.co.uk/health.html (http://www.thegoldenretrieverclub.co.uk/health.html)
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We have had our golden retriever since she was a puppy, she is now 7. She is amazing with our three kids and has never so much as looked at them in a bad way, her temperament is beautiful and can't be beaten. She is a lovely companion dog and has a lovely nature.
She's not protective of her food but she is greedy.
She is very excitable when she knows it's time for a walk.
She is very intelligent and quickly grasped the commands we chose to teach her when she was a puppy.
She is far less demanding than our collie and Springer. If you can put up with the hair shedding then I would go for a retriever over other breeds every time.
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There are some breeders of Goldens that would say their dogs are 'dual purpose' but there are two distinct types ..... as with Labradors.
As a general rule 'working line' will be finer in build and less heavy. Heads tend to be smaller/less domed. They appear more 'athletic'. Not sure if show types come in the dark red colour that you often see in working lines. The fashion when we were showing dogs was for 'pale' Goldies' but it may have changed now.
Look up 'show vs working Goldens' on the net. You'll see it discussed in forums etc. There are the usual extreme stories of 'crazy' working line Goldies but overall I suppose you would expect them to be a bit more 'on the go' than the show types. I have a young very much working lab here and yes she is busy, needs exercise, training but a really good little house dog. Guess you're an outdoor type and used to collies so shouldn't be a problem. ;D
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lovely dogs but you'll need a good vacuum!!
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My GR was my own self trained gun dog from a long line of working stock of which about 40% were KC registered with shed loads of field & on the gun live trial championships.
Not a block head insight ( show dog :-J :innocent: ) in her .
She had a mouth so soft she use to pick up chicks and bring them to me as if she thought they were too far away for the coop . I'd put the chicks back near the others . It became a game when she collected any escaped small mammals off the floors in the mammal sheds
re the block head commetn.. most working dogs have much longer snouts the area of scenting in the nose is usually therefore much bigger than in a show dog .
If you have a good two face comb/stripper one with rounded teeth 2 mm apart & a 0.6 mm stripper edge , it's easy to give the dog a clean up every couple of days and always on the same evening if they have been working .
It not only cleans the dog it also make for a fantastic bonding sessions as well . Hazel got to love the Dyson vacuum hose at the end of the brush out sessions .
Somethings she did on her own accord ..
She used to jump up and shake the Pershore egg plums down so she and the goose could eat them , as well as take a single bite out of any Egremont Russet apple that were in easy reach .. she never pulled them off the tree though .
She was a dog apart .. when she was 18 months old I was offered £6 K for her & a months B&B at a place in ESSEX to show the prospective buyer how to use her .
No way , no deal .. ever nor was I going to have her used as a breeder .
I could toss her some food and say " Hold " then ask for it back up to about 15 seconds later & she'd put it in my open hand un touched , save for a bit of dampness.
If you have the time and inclination ,you always have the dog with you almost 24/7 .
You train them every few seconds or reinforce things then most dogs can be reasonably trained , some like Hazel were apparently exceptionally trained .
One of her amusing foibles was to eat all of her rough a& ready coarse feed and leave behind the bigger lumps of caked blood , fats & flours etc by taking them out the bowl and putting them a foot or so to the side. Once the bowl was emptied & licked cleaned she'd then daintily eat them . If ever I asked her for one , she'd bring me one ... un slavered , right away .
We had about 40 verbal commands , over 15 hand signals and six whistle signals that she worked with . plus there were a lot of signals of verbal and body language that she picked up that were not working commands, these were mainly from Alison & out Munchkin
If you can get the dog to learn like that you will have a fantastic relationship & lots & lots of fun . plus a few blubs at the end
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Following on from cloddoppers post, my Goldie will pick up a quail egg and give it to me intact unless I tell her she can eat it. Lovely dogs :dog:
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You must have all been very lucky, or selective in the pups you've chosen, most of the goldies i've met have been pretty suspect in temperament & I definitely wouldn't trust them with children. Huge tendency to bite hard with no/ very subtle warning signs. I think being soft mouthed they dont always learn bite inhibition properly as pups. Maybe your all just better owners than average...
Love flatties though especially the more traditional ones.
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I've came across a couple of bad apples but the majority have been fantastic temperament wise. The bad apples were exceptionally bad. A dark working line and a very pale show/pet so no pattern either.
In general they are good. Like any breed do the homework. Don't just see parents but try to see previous offspring from both sides too. A list of potential owners already on a waiting list before the bitch has had the litter is usually a good indication that people in the know of the lines think this line is a good one.
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My young lab was playing with something in the field only yesterday. Ignored her for quite a while but then recalled. She'd found a pheasant egg and been playing with it for quite a while. Unbroken!
My Flattie as a young dog would collect the hen eggs out of the coops and come trotting home with them!
Re temperament ..... As a trainer of retrievers for the field my father did feel that Goldies were the most likely to show aggression towards other dogs but you can get that in any breed. Though Flatties are in general totally 'soft' we had a dog that was quite aggressive towards people and very dog aggressive. The breeder of my current Flattie said that she felt that Flatties were becoming more dog aggressive as a breed from what she was seeing at shows and they really can 'brawl' if they start. So, I guess, you can get that in any breed.
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my experience of Goldies led me to believe that they are mostly docile and affectionate but, oddly enough, I only heard yesterday that my friend's young Goldie ( about 15 months I think) had recently bitten her son :(
I don't know the exact circumstances in which this happened, but thought it was pertinent given the above posts.
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Hearsay but I have heard that there are lines of Goldies which are dog-aggressive.
When I was a youngster, a lot of yellow labs were dog-aggressive.
It just goes to show, whatever breed you choose, do your research as much as you can, don't go by show or field accomplishments; you really want to find lots of happy pet owners of dogs from the same lines!
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My mother has always had Goldens and bred them all her life. They drive me mad! You need to hoover your house and clothes every day, they drool, they are so slow to react to a command, they knock everything over with their tails and bodies, but they are very loving. I had a golden as my first dog (present from my mother) and did actually train her to beat on our shoot even though she was a showing strain. She was a bit brainless though. I never had another golden, have had working labs since then, so much easier!!!!!!! Easy to train, quick to respond, loving, much daintier around the house, so loyal. Would highly recommend a lab!!!
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I got a golden a couple of months ago as a companion to my collie
Was a mistake which I shouldnt have made really, I think I am just not a golden person at all
He has improved greatly but still has issues which when meeting other golden people they just turn and say its "normal for the breed, isnt it lovely"
He is far too food orientated, like obsessed, I hate it, If I was falling off a cliff and a crumb of bread was he would rather let me die and eat the crumb, he will grab food out of your hand to eat it, he jumps up at the kitchen counters and if there is nothing to snatch will just leave puddles of drool all over them with his hair stuck to
He STINKS like a dog, im sorry but its a far far stringer smell than a collie ever smells like
He is dim and slow and slow to react to anything, he is slow to figure things out and slow to pick up on things, he weighs 32 kilo and is still growing and runs into me and hurts me, he can jump on the sofa and I have to say off like 40 times a day for 4 days for him to pick it up
He is a dominant dog and it feels like he is constantly testing me and driving me insane, Tully has not been able to play with a single toy since Jim (the retriever) arrived, Jim wont allow him to, he has to have every toy and all the attention and then just gives nothing back apart from frustration, Tully is now too scared to look at a toy
The thing is all of the golden people around here just say "oooh yes they are daft and they love food dont they" "yes they all do that" etc etc
This week me and Tully are having a break from him and have left him at my family, it is pure bliss without him here, the problem is he is perfectly behaved (supposedly) at my family's house, so therefore its just me who cant cope with him and I dont know why :gloomy:
Sorry rant about goldens over
Good points: his tail wags
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I got a golden a couple of months ago as a companion to my collie
Was a mistake which I shouldnt have made really, I think I am just not a golden person at all
He has improved greatly but still has issues which when meeting other golden people they just turn and say its "normal for the breed, isnt it lovely"
He is far too food orientated, like obsessed, I hate it, If I was falling off a cliff and a crumb of bread was he would rather let me die and eat the crumb, he will grab food out of your hand to eat it, he jumps up at the kitchen counters and if there is nothing to snatch will just leave puddles of drool all over them with his hair stuck to
He STINKS like a dog, im sorry but its a far far stringer smell than a collie ever smells like
He is dim and slow and slow to react to anything, he is slow to figure things out and slow to pick up on things, he weighs 32 kilo and is still growing and runs into me and hurts me, he can jump on the sofa and I have to say off like 40 times a day for 4 days for him to pick it up
He is a dominant dog and it feels like he is constantly testing me and driving me insane, Tully has not been able to play with a single toy since Jim (the retriever) arrived, Jim wont allow him to, he has to have every toy and all the attention and then just gives nothing back apart from frustration, Tully is now too scared to look at a toy
The thing is all of the golden people around here just say "oooh yes they are daft and they love food dont they" "yes they all do that" etc etc
This week me and Tully are having a break from him and have left him at my family, it is pure bliss without him here, the problem is he is perfectly behaved (supposedly) at my family's house, so therefore its just me who cant cope with him and I dont know why :gloomy:
Sorry rant about goldens over
Good points: his tail wags
Totally agree with everything you say there about Goldens, my mothers 18 month old bitch is like that, my mum suffers from MS and is seriously struggling with the dog. If Jim is so good at your familys home, could you not persuade them to keep him. It really sounds like he is not the dog for you, you could so easily end up hating him. Sometimes we have to accept that things just arnt right and make a difficult decision. You have to think of Tully as well, is it fair on him? Really hard one for you. :hug:
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Ladygrey, so sorry that you're still having problems with Jim. :hug:
Maybe you're not a 'retriever' person. It's difficult for me to understand because I was brought up with them and love them but I help look after my neighbours 20 or so collies and there's no doubt that in general they have very different characters.
Like the Goldie people say, most of what you describe is 'normal' for a retriever.
My working line lab would 'die' for food and yes may choose the food over me if it came to it. Most are just greedy and food orientated dogs. She wouldn't take food out of our hands or off the counters if we were in the room but may sneak some if left alone so I try to make sure I move food out of reach.
Maybe if he is not working line he is not as clever as the retrievers I've known but you say he is 'dominant' and 'tests' you. It could be that he is clever and knows that he can to a certain extent 'ignore' you ..... hence having to tell him repeatedly. My male Flat Coat does need a firm hand or he would ignore me and he does still ignore me if he thinks he can get away with it eg. if I'm distracted talking to someone. He knows totally what he is doing, works out the situation and uses to his advantage. Maybe Jim needs some serious training .... now that he has settled in with you. Some retrievers need not to be scared exactly but certainly 'respectful' of you. I have met several people who have rehomed their Flatties because they were too much to handle .... they need to know you are boss and will be happier for it in the end.
My neighbour will always say .... mind those collies don't run into you/have you over etc. I laugh because you are right. They play differently to retrievers. My neighbours collies don't seem to bothered about playing around with each other in the same silly way that retrievers do. Retrievers improve as they get older but yes they can have you off your legs. I carry a stick and use it if they get too close. Also only allow 'silliness' for a short time and then make them calm down.
I wouldn't have any toys around as it could cause problems if Jim is dominant. Could you have some one to one time with your collie and the toys? I personally wouldn't let Jim even 'think' he was the boss and could have all the toys, grab food, etc.
Hope he settles down.
Waggy tails yeah ;D
Cross posted with Trishfarm
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Oh what a situation, Ladygrey :(
I'm not a Goldie expert but from the way you describe his behaviour, if you decide to keep him, I think I'd be inclined to try clicker training with Jim. He's food oriented, so he'd pick up the clicker = reward quickly, then he doesn't need to learn lots of new things, you just associate the behaviour you want with the clicker and hence (food) reward.
Jim gets off sofa = click.
Jim lets Tully have toy = click.
Jim doesn't grab food out of your hand = click.
Jim is being a right pain today - no clicks, no attention, no food rewards.
;)
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Lady grey, sounds like your retriever is going through a normal teenage 'working breed type' stage. Sorry to say this is normal and typical of the large workers/pastorals. My GSDs have all been silly at this age though not food orientated as it's not in the GSD breed, unlike any of the retriever types who are greedy. Been on my back a few times as has OH when silly teen GSD of 40kg runs to us. Taken the boys out a few times as well. There are ways to train it out as with most of the behaviour. Agree with ITH especially regarding stealing things and learning respect. With gsds it's not food but items to run and shred, kids toys, clothes etc. It is trainable and they do become a lovely dog past the teen stage but if it's a quiet collie you are used to then a retriever breed is a completely different type of companion with different needs.
Marches farmer it would maybe worth going to a retriever club and seeing the behaviour of the different age groups and talking to plenty of people for their experiences and opinions on the breed. Spending time around the breed will give you some sort of idea whether you would be happy to live with the traits of the breed.
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Sorry I didnt mean to or want to hyjack the thread :(
Thankyou for your replies, I think yes I am not a retriever person and I think he is too strong mentally and physically for me and Tully :gloomy:
He can stay with my family for now
I hope you manage to find a lovely dog Marches farmer! :) goodluck