The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: smiley bucket on January 04, 2015, 02:39:07 pm
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I have nine acres, dlean horse and weed free grass, which was to be baled for horse hay next year. Now it is chewed up, full of divots and covered in horse poo thanks to a Neighbour who has let a neglected horse stray on said clean stock free pasture for three plus weeks now. I've put it hack several times but her fences are like cobwebs and starving horse returns from her bare mud patch to my clean ground.
Today I found her three disgusting (as in covered in clinkers/wormy/ trailing brambles) sheep in among my small ponies, who live be in a sacrifice paddock with AdLib hay. Went to her house and was met by lame dog but no sight of her. Left phone msg telling her to get sheep out as my ponies will chase and hurt them and asking her to get her animals off my land and get something done about her fences to keep her stock inside her own property.
All these animals and more are neglected and starving, RSPCA are aware but seem useless as the horses (4) are all starving.
I am so angry at this woman taking liberties with my property, but more so the abject cruelty she is inflicting and nobody seems able to help these poor animals out. WHW aware but have not seen any action yet.
Rant over, just had to get it off my chest!!
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If these animals can get through joint fences between your two properties you have probably no choice but to re-fence on your side and swallow the cost. Otherwise the problem will keep reoccurring all the time...
RSPCA will not intervene, as animals are fed after all - they don't care which side of the fence they are on... (this is meant sarcastically btw)
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Grrr, these folk shoudl be banned from keeping animals for life. I feel your frustration. The "authorities" are far too slow to act. IMHO
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We have had it here too - the easiest thing to do is fence your own field off for yourself so nothing can get in - its a great investment as if you want to use it after cutting for your own stock they wont escape out and into their field either.
As for trying to keep grass over the winter without it dieing off and going yellow - good luck with it. As for the s**t on it - dont worry by next year when cutting comes it will be well gone.
That said - I feel your pain - we also had a neighbour whos fields were so crap that all the stock used to jump into the road and come walk down to our house down the road - in the end we had to put a gate on the driveway - which enevitably got left open by delivery drivers who used to basically chase their stock down the road and open our gate to let them in. Its a royal 'pita'
I dont mind fixing borders - but fixing a field fence thats down the road - I draw the line at that. But in the end - holes were easier to patch than complain to them about.
Yeah and the biggest pee off was the fact that her stock was probably full off desiese and unwormed.
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You might have more luck with the Animal Welfare dept. at your local authority offices with regard to the sheep.
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Surely your fields should be fenced on your side anyway.
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We only bought the land recently and it is being refenced, hopefully the boundary with this woman will be completed at the weekend.
Then I have to be very hard hearted and return this poor horse to his own field, with no grass and only a drop of hay which he will have to share with two younger tb mares. He has put on weight over the last four weeks eating my grass, and while I don't grudge him that at all, I know the poor thing will lose it all again within a few days back in his own field.
I have made appropriate organisations aware of the situation and I don't know what more I can do. Feel so sorry for these horses, its a case where humane slaughter would be preferable to a miserable existence starving and freezing. I do feel the last owners of these horses carry some blame, not having the courage to put their old friend to sleep, preferring to hand them over and pretend they will be fine.
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Surely your fields should be fenced on your side anyway.
You are quite wrong there is no requirement for land owners to fence. It is the animal owners responsibility to ensure their animals are fenced in (or more accurately kept under control) not others responsibility to fence them out. Its quite logical if you think about it. Imagine your neighbour decides to keep elephants...would you feel you had to invest in an elephant proof fence...or them ?
Regards
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im sure it says in my deeds that the fences should be kept stockproof.
we shared boundary when we moved here and the existing fence belongs to the other side, and their sheep used to graze our land as the fence was falling down. we put up our own fence on our land as the neighbouring wouldn't let me remove his fence to put up a new one on the boundary line (done professionally) or pay any contribution.
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Shygirl, - what does stock proof mean ? Stock proof for what ? Liability for fencing is with the person who owns the animals (unless you have entered into a personal covenant with your neighbour--statements like you have in your deeds are deemed as positive covenants and case law has overruled them as invalid). The fence you have put up is your fence for retaining your animals...it is your neighbours responsibility to fence his animals on his land. If his animals escaped due to your fence failing it would be his fault not yours.
Smileybucket, You would be quite within your rights to file a claim against your neighbour for loss of crop / costs of replacing with additional fodder- an agricultural agent would be able to help you with this; 9 acres of lost hay is not an insignificant sum .
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Shygirl, - what does stock proof mean ? Stock proof for what ? Liability for fencing is with the person who owns the animals (unless you have entered into a personal covenant with your neighbour--statements like you have in your deeds are deemed as positive covenants and case law has overruled them as invalid). The fence you have put up is your fence for retaining your animals...it is your neighbours responsibility to fence his animals on his land.
stufe shygirl is in Scotland and scots land law is quite different in this respect than English law
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Ock Aye !
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Clydesdalehopper, can you enlarge on your statement because on reflection I'm quite intrigued as to how it works.
In Scotland do you have to keep an eye on your neighbours field to see what he puts in it next and quickly pop out to erect the appropriate fence for him.
Week 1 he has horses , I erect post and rail.
Week 2 he puts in sheep with lambs at foot, I have to rush out and put up sheep netting.
Week 3 he puts in deer I have to extend it to 2.5 m high.
Curious.
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Sorry I should have cropped a bit more of your quote. My point related to the enforceability of what in English law are known as positive covenants. In Scots law real conditions such as that mentioned by Shygirl are enforceable by the owner of the dominant property
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Got you; does stock proof have a legal definition then ?
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I'm not familiar with any case law giving a definition of "stock proof".
It's also important to note that although straying animals do constitute a trespass to the land the courts in Scotland have been very reticent to award interdict to prevent repeated trespass. The keeper is expected to take "reasonable steps" to prevent trespass BUT the interpretation of that may surprise some. It is considered reasonable to confine chickens but not sheep and cattle and the courts have historically been unwilling to impose burdens of fencing on the keepers. Admittedly much of the case law is pretty old but it has not been considered in recent cases. There's a rather lovely case from 1885 where the judge said that the burden of fencing was a matter for the owner of the land trespassed upon :o
However, under statute, once an animal has strayed it can be detained by the owner of the land and is then treated as any other lost or abandoned property so must be reported to either the owner or the police. The police then have a discretion to require payment of a reward to the detentor of the animal. There is also strict liability for any damage caused by the animal where the land or produce of the land is damaged.
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Very interesting, I've just been googling fences Scotland and it does appear thing are quite different.
Cheers. Stu
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Having come from a background in English law I found it quite mind boggling when I started teaching Scots property law :D
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This is in england. I wonder if I can take possession and pass on to rescue?
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Shygirl, - what does stock proof mean ? Stock proof for what ? Liability for fencing is with the person who owns the animals (unless you have entered into a personal covenant with your neighbour--statements like you have in your deeds are deemed as positive covenants and case law has overruled them as invalid). The fence you have put up is your fence for retaining your animals...it is your neighbours responsibility to fence his animals on his land.
stufe shygirl is in Scotland and scots land law is quite different in this respect than English law
I will have a look a see what terminology it uses but Im 90% sure maintaining fences are mentioned in my deeds.
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I remember from my childhood moving dairy cows through the village for milking. If a house had gateposts but no fence we had to prevent the cows entering the garden but if there was a fence but no gateposts it was the owner who had to keep them out. Fortunately the cows were good and rarely tried to go into the gardens as we tried to keep them out of them all.