The Accidental Smallholder Forum

Livestock => Poultry & Waterfowl => Topic started by: lord flynn on November 28, 2014, 09:14:21 am

Title: worming ducks
Post by: lord flynn on November 28, 2014, 09:14:21 am
hi
I know they can have the Marriages pellets and I've ordered some but they won't be here until mon/tues. I have some of the flubenvet premix and just wanted to check they could have this mixed in the breeder pellets with some oil? I'm a little suspicious of the head movements of one of the ducks and having had tapeworm here before I want to treat asap.
Title: Re: worming ducks
Post by: HesterF on November 28, 2014, 10:03:07 am
Yes, you can, same rate as chickens. Only question is off topic - why you've got them on breeders? Mine are on growers or layers at this time of year (depending on whether they're laying or not).
Title: Re: worming ducks
Post by: lord flynn on November 28, 2014, 10:11:52 am
thanks.
they were on growers but don't only have young ducks-I ran out of growers and though I'd put them on breeders rather than layers then breeders (they aren't laying-I though the older ones might start but I think the move triggered a major moult which they are just getting over). My chickens will go on breeders too as soon as they've all been wormed with the marriages layers. Its possibly a bit early given I won't start hatching until March but I think its a better diet for them in the winter than layers IMHO.
Title: Re: worming ducks
Post by: HesterF on November 28, 2014, 05:14:23 pm
I think you can keep them on growers. When I bought my geese (and they're top duck breeders too), I asked about diet and they have breeders through the breeding season and then back onto growers/finishers for the rest of the year.
Title: Re: worming ducks
Post by: waterbuffalofarmer on December 01, 2014, 12:39:10 pm
I worm my chickens once a week by putting myrrh in their water, it cleans them out and keeps them healthy. You can also put it in your sheeps water, however be careful not to overdose. I have a metal, clean, dogs bowl I bought from a petshop for my chickens I give them about a few drops in their water and they drink it, it is a natural wormer.
Title: Re: worming ducks
Post by: HesterF on December 01, 2014, 10:34:26 pm
Myrrh? As in the three wise men? Very seasonal! But it's not a liquid so what's it mixed with? Do you have worm counts done by the vet to be sure it's working?
Title: Re: worming ducks
Post by: waterbuffalofarmer on December 01, 2014, 11:03:52 pm
I use the liquid form you can buy in it big bottles from the herbal apothecary, be careful how much you use though as it is rather a strong liquid, its a fabulous vermifuge though. I don't bother with worm counts, I rarely give sheep it, I usually worm them conventionally, however none of the chickens have come down with worms in all the time I've kept them.
Title: Re: worming ducks
Post by: lord flynn on December 02, 2014, 10:04:01 am
how do you know they don't have worms? just because you aren't looking for them, doesnt mean they arent there.
Title: Re: worming ducks
Post by: waterbuffalofarmer on December 02, 2014, 11:46:32 am
Well to an extent a very animal has some worms always present, they always seem healthy to me and also I keep them free range, they have clean bedding and a balanced diet, so in essence they're generally worm free.
Title: Re: worming ducks
Post by: Womble on December 02, 2014, 01:36:22 pm
Surely that just means that they're keeping their own individual worm burdens down to a level where it causes them no problem?  They could still be carrying worms, so unless you do an egg count you've not really any way of knowing surely?
 
Of course to put the lie to that, we just had an egg count done for our hens and it came back clear, despite none of them having been wormed for a couple of years now.
Title: Re: worming ducks
Post by: lord flynn on December 02, 2014, 02:29:56 pm

 
Of course to put the lie to that, we just had an egg count done for our hens and it came back clear, despite none of them having been wormed for a couple of years now.

it doesnt mean they have no worms, just that any present and below the limits of detection of the test-which is a good thing. If you worm animals regularly for a while then the worm burdens overall will decrease barring events like buying in new stock etc.

and yes animals carry low levels of worms. but (as a parasitologist) I do despair when I get people using non-wormers as worm control and then declare their animals worm free when they have no evidence of it because then others take it as gospel and do the same. When you dont worm, they are alright until they arent alright..
Title: Re: worming ducks
Post by: Womble on December 02, 2014, 02:41:53 pm
it doesnt mean they have no worms, just that any present and below the limits of detection of the test-which is a good thing.

Indeed.  The low / non-count did surprise me though - should it have?
Title: Re: worming ducks
Post by: waterbuffalofarmer on December 02, 2014, 03:40:10 pm
I have read about myrrh and it does kill a lot of the worms in their system, it is natures vermifuge a bit like chicory. In all the time I've kept hens, a lot of years, I have given then myrrh and sometimes wormwood and never had a worm problem, is that coincidence or the fact that natural workers work?
Title: Re: worming ducks
Post by: lord flynn on December 02, 2014, 03:52:24 pm
I have read about myrrh and it does kill a lot of the worms in their system, it is natures vermifuge a bit like chicory. In all the time I've kept hens, a lot of years, I have given then myrrh and sometimes wormwood and never had a worm problem, is that coincidence or the fact that natural workers work?

might be either but you've proof of neither :D

Title: Re: worming ducks
Post by: lord flynn on December 02, 2014, 04:06:18 pm
it doesnt mean they have no worms, just that any present and below the limits of detection of the test-which is a good thing.

Indeed.  The low / non-count did surprise me though - should it have?

depends on lots of factors really-FEWC aren't infallible, there are reasons for both false negatives and false positives. If anyone's birds free range and come into contact with wild birds its worth worming regardless. Most species also come into an age whereby they will become more resistant to intestinal worms and then become susceptible again when they get older. Parasite burden is one reason why most species don't live as long in the wild as they do domesticated. My horses have nil worm counts (and are 3, 5 and 21 years old so young and old) but I still worm in order to keep down those species not detectable by WEC (tapes and encysted redworms for example).

The other problem with natural remedies (and its not that I think they absolutely cannot work-many drugs come have natural origins afterall) is that there's no quality control on these products, you've no idea of the dosage of the active ingredient you are giving nor what other impurities you might be dosing them with. Why waste your money and risk the animal's health? just buy the proper stuff (and there's little recorded resistance in poultry as yet) and get the job done.

Title: Re: worming ducks
Post by: Womble on December 02, 2014, 05:28:27 pm
FEWC aren't infallible, there are reasons for both false negatives and false positives. If anyone's birds free range and come into contact with wild birds its worth worming regardless.

For sure. I'll admit, we just got lax with the worming, so I thought I'd get an FEC done for the hens at the same time as I had the sheep done. I was fully expecting it to come back high though, so was surprised when it didn't.
 
just buy the proper stuff (and there's little recorded resistance in poultry as yet) and get the job done.

Fair enough! It's the requirement to have it as their only feed for however many days that's the biggest problem. Ours all free range and suppliment their pellets with grass and bugs, not to mention mugging the cats and stealing their breakfast if we're not careful!  ;)
 
Title: Re: worming ducks
Post by: lord flynn on December 02, 2014, 07:41:25 pm
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Fair enough! It's the requirement to have it as their only feed for however many days that's the biggest problem. Ours all free range and suppliment their pellets with grass and bugs, not to mention mugging the cats and stealing their breakfast if we're not careful!  ;)


its a pain, and the ducks aren't thanking me for it atm but they'll live.I got a bit lax with the worming earlier this year-lost a few to gapeworm and believe me, thats a horrible one.
Title: Re: worming ducks
Post by: nutterly_uts on December 02, 2014, 08:15:59 pm
Chickens are fairly easy to dose with doctored grapes :)
Title: Re: worming ducks
Post by: F.CUTHBERT on December 05, 2014, 09:29:30 pm
What wormers are approved for use on ducks and is there any opportunity to rotate the active ingredients?
 
Title: Re: worming ducks
Post by: HesterF on December 05, 2014, 10:07:50 pm
I think Flubenvet is the only one approved for use on any poultry but the vet has given me Panacur for various birds before on the understanding that it's not approved and therefore at my own risk but he's been happy to advise on dosages (and because it's a direct dose, if you're just doing a single bird, it's probably more effective but would be hellish to do a big flock).

H
Title: Re: worming ducks
Post by: waterbuffalofarmer on December 06, 2014, 10:21:15 am
Products that can be given regularly to help reduce worms

Diatom (in feed), Apple Cider Vinegar (ACV) and fresh crushed Garlic (both usually given in water). These are believed to make the gut an unpleasant place for worms. Before wormers were invented, garlic cloves crushed into water was often the remedy given in the old poultry books.
Title: Re: worming ducks
Post by: wayfarer on December 06, 2014, 10:51:35 am
Nutterly_uts - I like the sound of the doctored grapes as that will make sure that they will get doesed despite free ranging but what is the dose in a grape per chicken (large fowl & bantam) please.
Title: Re: worming ducks
Post by: nutterly_uts on December 06, 2014, 06:30:27 pm
I do a pinch (is about 0.1- 0.2g) of flubenvet 2.5% per bird per day for 7 days - I kinda slit/squish the grape and put it in :)