The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: ScotsGirl on November 10, 2014, 06:23:11 pm
-
Ok some advice needed. I was contacted about having a BWM ram for sale. Just so happened I had a shearling which was surplus and to my knowledge close to breed standard. I have details of breed history and they said they wanted him Andy have collected him. He was in a big trailer and there was ample time to go in and inspect him but the person just looked over the gate said he was lovely and we put him in her trailer.
Now I have a message to say on closer inspection he has white in his fleece and no good for breeding but I didn't see any White, granted I didn't get a magnifying glass out and go through him with a fine tooth comb.
Where do I stand? Do I have to take him back? I don't really want to as he was going on loan and now that can't happen as they have my other ram.
-
How long ago did they pick him up? :innocent:
-
Yesterday
-
Unlikely to be trying to pull a fast one having already put him to work then.
There are two aspects here: Firstly legal terms of sale, and secondly common custom and practice.
Unless you specifically stated he had no white in his fleece, surely he's 'sold as seen' on the first point, just like a second hand car. I'm not so sure what custom and practice would be for second hand tups, but I'm sure others will be along in a minute to advise!
-
This was photo from last December
-
What about agreeing to go to theirs (with a trailer?) and have them show you the white. If it's a lot/significant then take him back, if its minimal/not your ram, walk away as sold as seen?
-
I have asked for a photo. As you can see from photo above if there is white it is certainly not obvious. He can't come back for a week anyway and it will cause me no end of hassle if he does.
-
Stand your ground. She had the choice to look at him carefully and didn't. You have no idea what diseases she could have, no idea if he was in quarantine and so on. It's not on! I'd be mad!
-
Thanks for advice, I am a bit annoyed. I priced him reasonably and I wouldn't mind if I was guilty of hiding something but apart from his horns being too close to his head for my liking he produced some lovely lambs for me last year and I couldn't fault him. I don't show, however, so maybe don't have a critical enough eye.
I feel bad because she said she didn't think she had to worry about checking as she was buying from registered stock.
-
I most certainly wouldn't take him back.
You said you had him confined in a trailer so they had every chance to examine him. He is still suitable for breeding which is what he was bought for - it would have been another matter if, say, he'd only got one bollock. It's not like he's got a large white patch that you tried to conceal, and I think that a few white hairs would probably not be passed on anyway.
But most important of all, as mentioned, is the disease risk. This is also the time of year for transmission of scab. I once lent out a ram. Unknown to me the people who borrowed him bought some more sheep from market and these had scab. They brought my ram back and never mentioned it and it went right through my flock. It took a while to establish and finally became evident just as we started lambing.
This is a classic case of caveat emptor and there would seem to be no valid reason why you should take the animal back.
-
I'd explain the worries you have about disease risk but maybe for the sake of diplomicy (and possible future business/ reputation) you could offer to help try and find someone to buy him from them?
I've no experience with sheep but lots with upity customers! ::)
-
tell them you have a closed herd so no returns.
next time write a receipt with "sold as seen".
and maybe add "buy in haste, repent at leisure". :roflanim:
-
Ug, bummer. They should have inspected him, there is no guarantee even with registered stock as the society doesn't compel anyone to have a pre registration inspection. Sold as seen, unless you want to maintain the relationship.
-
I sell plenty of rams and have a replacement policy so that if a ram doesn't work or dies within a reasonable timeframe I will replace him FOC
However this sounds more like a case of--- 'I've changed my mind , on 2nd thoughts I don't like him'---which wouldn't cut it with me
It's hard to be diplomatic whilst telling people they are wrong though
-
Very annoying, I would be a soft touch though, I would worry about what his fate would be if she really takes umbrage. If he's a good ram I would rather take him back than think of him going through a mart with an unknown fate. That makes me soft I know.
Silly woman should've looked at what she was buying though, pulling a fast one me thinks x
-
If you have him back what kinda price would you be looking for, pm if necessary. Always said I wanted some good welsh cross replacement ewe lambs ;) Jumping the gun I know but hey !
-
I'm a soft touch. I would take him back for the sake of harmony - but would deduct all costs re travel and time ;) .
-
If they specified a pedigree ram and got one for an agreed price, that's a contract. If they later state they don't want one with white hairs, when they've have an ample opportunity to inspect him before agreeing the deal, then that's a different contract. Whatever the reason they've changed their minds I personally would say, politely and with as much charm as I could muster, that he is pedigree and they had every opportunity to inspect him before removing him from your holding, but chose not to, which is not your fault..
-
I haven't heard any more so keeping my head down! She was not willing to talk much when I tried asking what stock she had so I gave up. She didn't ask for any photos, only breed history and price. I get so fed up having to cover my back because people don't engage their brain before buying.
He was a good ram, easy to handle, threw good lambs (with no white or markings!) and was reasonably priced at £150 inc registration. If I was asking several hundred pounds and selling as prizewinning stock then maybe I could have understood her disappointment but I hadn't even advertised him, she was obviously in a hurry to buy something. I will be more careful in future.
-
I feel like that you should tell them to go away. BUT the only time I had a complaint I took it back even though it cost me 1/2 a day and was not my fault in any way.
I had sold sheep to new sheep keepers with the promise of phone support and even a visit if needed. A few months went by and I heard from them, not happy. I went out to find one ewe down, thin, and in a generally sorry state. The others were fine and running around with their lambs. I bought her back at the price she had left me in good condition months earlier and given the state of her offered (very firmly) to buy back the other two (which was refused). Gave any advice I could and left. They never cashed my cheque - perhaps they were too embarrassed.
At least if you take him back no one can say anything against you.
-
I haven't heard any more so keeping my head down! She was not willing to talk much when I tried asking what stock she had so I gave up. She didn't ask for any photos, only breed history and price.
I agree with you - heads down. If they were serious they would have been back in touch by now.
He was a good ram, easy to handle, threw good lambs (with no white or markings!) and was reasonably priced at £150 inc registration. If I was asking several hundred pounds and selling as prizewinning stock then maybe I could have understood her disappointment but I hadn't even advertised him, she was obviously in a hurry to buy something.
I think she was chancing her mit.