The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Pets & Working Animals => Dogs => Topic started by: Backinwellies on September 18, 2014, 01:40:05 pm
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Hi
My rescue collie is lovely and loves people generally (unlike my previous ones who were all nervous with new people so I am used to collie friendly but nervous barking/growling behaviour with new people.)
She is 18 months old. If someone new appears my other dog (collie cross) barks warning barks which sets Kassie off barking. then, if she can get out, races up to person leaps in air in excitement then nips (and it is a nip) .. usually elbow or upper arm (so high). I obviously don't allow her to greet people like this and under controlled conditions she can behave... just occasionally a visitor catches me by surprise tho.
It does seem to happen at home so I wonder if it is the other dog's barking that sets off the reaction or maybe I am more focussed on her behaviour when out?
Any ideas for training please .... she is a bright intelligent collie who learns fast and is fine being dragged around on a lead by my 6 year old granddaughter.
She is very sensitive to noise or men shouting ...and leaps into my lap if a jet goes over.
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That's a tricky one! Can you stop people turning up unexpectedly by putting a bell on your entrance gate and a sign for everyone to ring it - then you can get her on a lead?? I have a similar problem with a footpath through our land and a dog that defends his territory - a bit more than a nip :-( . I just have to keep him on a lead in that area.
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Tricky one.
I can only think you need to do training with pretend visitors, and get them to distract her as she comes at them, so break her habit. If she likes playing with a ball, for instance, get them to show her a ball as she approaches, and throw it for her. Being a collie, however, she may be so obsessively focussed on them that she doesn't see the ball.
I don't want to suggest any aversion therapy, eg., getting the pretend visitors to sound a klaxon at her to stop her in her tracks, because you say she generally likes people so it would be awful to cause her to change her mind on that!
Maybe you or a family member could divert her as she is en route to the pretend visitor - again, looking to break her habit. So you'd have to do it lots of times...
I'd have a look in the Barbara Sykes book for any ideas, but am a bit short of spare time at the mo. Do you have that book yourself?
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I think you need to control the older one first. She's getting wound up. Mine are like that too. If I distract Allez the others are calm.
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Thank you everyone.
Sally especially thank you for the comment about aversion therapy as that was what I had thought of trying.. not thought of the other possible result.
Doganjo. At 11 years old I am not going to be able to stop Jovi barking at any visitor ... and to be honest I'm here by myself most of the time and his barking is my security.... to people that know him he is 'the best' ... he has a list of people who almost fight over who will look after him if I'm away.
Think maybe I need to see what she is like when people come if he is not around .... :thinking:
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try watching the dog whisperer on you tube, hes very good with leadership and it worked for us.
with a high risk of teaching a granny to suck eggs here - ensure you are the leader and you take responsiblity (in the dogs eyes) for any visitors etc and get him to lie and stay when they are there. i doubt the older dog is the leader as he is getting older and the young dog feels its his responsiblity to protect you. start off by taking control of doorways and food and then get control of what areas the dog is allowed in on a minute by minute - day-to-day basis. then this can progress to you "owning" the gateways and visitors and as he musnt go in your personal space - (or the visitors as they belong to you also).
in theory anyway - goodluck
not condoning it but there are remote control citronella collars that spray/vibrate when you press a button, an option if you are worried about consequences of someone getting bitten.
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My young working lab. is quite nervous of people. She will run towards visitors barking and growling. There is no nip though which I suppose is the worrying thing with your dog ...... in terms of how other people might interpret it. As her training is kicking in it is becoming less of a problem as I recall as soon as she runs forward and then get her to sit at heel and walk towards the visitor at heel if need be. Before she started her training I kept a thin lead in my pocket if I was working outdoors (in case visitors came through the gate and caught us unawares) and slipped her on this so that I was in control.
Will your young dog recall immediately? I know it doesn't solve it completely but if you could get her back more as less as soon as you hear her bark then it would prevent the 'nip'.
Trying to get my young dog out and about more so that she is less nervous around strangers as she also barks when not on her own ground.
I think I would try other options before any 'aversion' type intervention. If not done carefully it could cause as many problems as it solves especially with a clever and sensitive dog.
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Thank you everyone.
Sally especially thank you for the comment about aversion therapy as that was what I had thought of trying.. not thought of the other possible result.
Doganjo. At 11 years old I am not going to be able to stop Jovi barking at any visitor ... and to be honest I'm here by myself most of the time and his barking is my security.... to people that know him he is 'the best' ... he has a list of people who almost fight over who will look after him if I'm away.
Think maybe I need to see what she is like when people come if he is not around .... :thinking:
I taught my 13 year old a few months ago. Thank him for his concern and teach him to bark on command!
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Ok ..starting point .... How to teach an old dog (and a young one) not to bark at anyone (or any vehicle) that goes past. (I used to live in a cul-de-sac and back from the road so he didn't have much to bark at except when someone came to door.) our house is now by the side of a lane .... not much traffic but what there is has to be 'warned off' by lots of barking.
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Reading with interest BIW. We live in a very rural 'scattered' hamlet so every sound and movement is noticed by our young dog and like yours she 'warns' of it. She hears/sees very little .... you can walk for over an hour along the lanes before seeing a car let alone a person. Very difficult to get her used to people and she is quite nervous of them.
I'm just working slowly on the idea of it's okay to bark but then she must settle down and ignore the person/car. She is getting better ..... slowly.
Most of my farming neighbours think it's a good thing that she is 'sharp' because I'm on my own a lot of the time and quite isolated. Would like her to feel a bit more relaxed and confident around new people though.
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I don't stop our dogs barking per se; I want them to warn us if someone is about. But after they've barked for a wee while they are told, "Thank You!" and must then shut up.
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I'm not so polite ;D. I use 'shut up'. ;D
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I'm not so polite ;D. I use 'shut up'. ;D
Like it :excited: - I've been known to resort to those tactics of thank you doesn't work. :innocent:
I'm sort of isolated too, so I like my dogs to let me know if there's anyone around. But they were also taught to bark on command so if I see someone hanging about on the lane that I'm not sure of, I let them out and say 'go talk' and they go into wild noisy dog mode, tails wagging like crazy. Then if the person is OK they are called back in and told to be quiet.
However, the nipping is a different problem. Two of mine do that too - but only when certain friends come into the house, and it is a friendly nip - no breaking the skin, and only a couple of nips. They're usually told by said friends to 'clear off!' Other than distraction not sure how to stop that.
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I can't stand barking dogs, that bark for no cause.
The mrs terrier, barks at every noise, every car etc etc.
My gang are silent, right until it's something 'not right', i.e anyone in the yard once we have gone up to bed, or anyone who isn't me approaching the kennel doors, or round the vehicles etc. Then they go crazy and I know 100% if they start barking at night, to jump out of bed very quick. So far they have never been wrong! But when told to shut up, they do so.
As for the nipping, it sounds like the dog is under socialised, and quite possibly slightly under stimulated. Dogs are naturally orally fixated, and all of mine have been in particular. Some breeds are more so than others - i.e spaniels, land, terriers, lurchers etc, or at least have been in my experience. My solution is not to indulge it, i.e as soon as they start to bite / nip hands etc, they are corrected, not nastily, but firmly, and put in their place. They are then distracted, in some cases, with a 'tug' toy, usually just a rag or something, but always the same thing, it allows them to vent some of their drive and excitement in a constructive manner (obviously i never do this with gun dogs!).
In general though, you should be top dog, and if you say, stop, leave or no, or just tell the dog to stick with you, then it should do so!
Mind you, having said that, some collies are just biters, our farm collie has had two people, who thought it wise to explore the quad shed while she (but not us) were in the yard. Obviously once bitten, they were 'just looking'. . . .
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My three bark their heads off when any car or van comes up our farm road. I let them know I have heard it then tell them enough. they are kept in but if I am out working around the place and someone comes to deliver something I put them in a down stay. Barking is their way of saying something is coming which I prefer living in the middle of no where.
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No help at all, I know but this thread brought to mind a dear old chap I cared for on the Milllelium eve. Would you mind, asked the daughter as we are out all night, the dogs sleeping on your bed? Good Lord no, said I, they'd be welcome.
Well, one was an ancient lurcher who slept like a child, the other was a young Labrador with hip dysplasia and an unfortunate guarding tendency. Every time he heard a firework go off he was off the bed and barking madly at the window.
Silence, and he would come back to the bed and say, Well that has seen that off, err! could you help me back onto the bed please.
Dear old Dad slept all night and not a bit of trouble, but, my gosh, I earned my money that night with that lovely dog!!
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A loud, firm, immediate "No" and the contents of a water pistol in the face can work wonders.
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A loud, firm, immediate "No" and the contents of a water pistol in the face can work wonders.
lol, I've had three collie crosses - and a cat :o - who loved to play-fight with a water pistol ::)
And on a serious note, I've seen no end of collie-owners at agility classes getting right royally chewed by their collies, who seemed to get more wound up and excited by being water-pistolled.